Opinion  Soapbox
Stand up to Orthodox
Laura Goldman
Published: 09.11.06, 15:01
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94 Talkbacks for this article
1. Argues like a tyrant
Ilan ,   Ariel   (11.09.06)
Most of the opposition to the parade is being conducted by the rules of a democratic society. You can't punish the 95% collectively based on the actions of the 5%. You want to level the ghetto and massacre the inhabitants to cater to your inner you, it seems. Sorry it's not allowed in a democracy.
2. enemy of the state?
Jeremy ,   Miami Beach, FL   (11.09.06)
"Would the Israeli public tolerate the same behavior from the Arabs as we have from the Orthodox of Bar Ilan Street? The answer is a resounding no. " Actually, the answer is a resounding yes. When was the last time Jews were allowed to pray at Temple Mount? "Rabbis = enemy of the state" -- where have we heard that before? Oh, that's right, USSR circa 1920s.
3. Tolerate same behavior from Arabs
Kyle ,   Southpark, CO, USA   (11.09.06)
The answer is a resounding YES Arabs incite genocide against Jews and destruction of the State of Israel and they are allowed to remain in the Knesset.
4. People who incite against Hashem should go to Gehinom
jabroni ,   jerusalem   (11.09.06)
Why does Ynet publish these ridiculous Homo interest stories all the time? Dont we have enough to worry about aside from this nonsense?
5. Dumb Piece Of Writing
Reuven Brauner ,   Raanana, Israel   (11.09.06)
6. Laura talks rubbish
S Judah ,   london   (11.09.06)
A pulsa danura is a Kabbalistic matter and none of the Court she refers to have any Mekubalim of the relevant standing. So where is she getting her information from.? Not a single serious Rabbinal figure has advocated violence, in fact they have advocated the opposite.
7. pulsa d'nura
Michael ,   Haifa   (11.09.06)
An invention of third world Rabbinical Voodoo men
8. Laura the hypocryt
BillH. ,   LeecoFl USA   (11.09.06)
because of hypecryts like you who have failed to expose with consistancy the coercion and intimidation of EVERY moslem people are learning from their example. islam is showing the world that intimidation works ; the orthodox are merely following their example; and so long as islam exists in Israel good luck to them. Arrest all moslems first.
9. This is not a democracy
Yosef ,   Jerusalem   (11.09.06)
what makes this country a democracy? if you can get a political party outlawed b/c the governemnt feared they will get too many votes, how is this a democracy? israel was never set up to be a democracy, only on paper does it acctually work, but in reality this country, is anti jewish, anti religious, anti torah, anti g-d! go to america if you want to see a system alot closer to a democracy then israel! at least in america the supreme court is not a supernal being as it is considerd here
10. Great article. Thank you.
kobi   (11.09.06)
11. If a Democracy Means Abomination, WHO NEEDS A DEMOCRACY?
H ,   Jerusalem   (11.09.06)
Israel has to be a JEWISH state FIRST with Jewish values and fear of G-d. If that is not democracy - WE DON'T NEED A DEMOCRACY!
12. #6 Wishful Thinking
H ,   Jerusalem   (11.09.06)
The Holy Rabbis have more Heavenly power than you can imagine. And the "pulsa d'nura" will be done if, G-d forbid, the abomination goes through. PM Sharon's GAYhenom is from a "pulsa d'nura" for the expulsion of innocent Jews.
13. Laura: Your Brother Should See a Psychiatrist
H ,   Jerusalem   (11.09.06)
and not commit to sin. And that's when he'll find true "peace and love". Gay people are "born" with this sickness like murderers are "born" to kill and thieves are "born" to steal. When a murderer kills, he finds a tremendous pleasure in it - any terrorist can confirm that. And when a thief steals he also finds what he wants... But they all have one thing in common - they need help.
al mann ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (11.09.06)
What surprises me is that those who deny the validity of the Torah give such great validity to the Pulsa Denurah. Those who don't uphold tradition and the Sabbath are afraid of Pulsa Denurah? Those who condemn others who are totally committed to the constitution of Am Yisroel are afraid of Pulsa Denurah? How could this be? Those who deny the validity of Torah are intelligent, modern, and progressive people so how come they want a trial for rabbis who pronounced a Pulsa Denurah on police and those going to participate in the exhibitionistic parade? How can these people give validity to Pulsah Denurah and invalidate the entire Torah? Is it due to ignorance? Is it due to hypocrisy? You figure it out!!!
Michael / Jerusalem   (11.09.06)
Is it a pride or a mental desease to be attracted bye the same sex. Are Jew acting like Nazis or just keeping the Torah given from G_d ? Should observant Jews accept that the Holy Land be like New York or Paris ? Usually, the difference between "pro" and "cons" gay point of view depends on the importance you give to the Torah. To be clear, people that respect the Torah can't be "pro" gays... If you say yes, its because you didn't read all the lines... or maybe don't really think that Torah has been given by G_d ...? to gay people : pls accept the difference and the fact that to have children you need to be a man and a woman and not a man and a man... sounds stupid... but so true... The way you choose will lead you nowhere... don't wait to be 60 years old to understand....
16. The author advocates the rule of the exception.
M├írcia ,   Brazil   (11.09.06)
Nothing could more authoritarian.
Baruch ,   Boston, USA   (11.09.06)
This is secular fascism at its worst. This atheist thinks everyone's rights are important, no matter how ridiculous they are, except for religious people, who are the only ones in this issue with proper values of humility, modesty, faith in HaShem, and dedication to their families. Totally unlike the participants in this gay thing.
18. She's absolutely right....inciding violence should have.....
Andy ,   ramat hasharon   (11.09.06)
criminal consequences. Regardless of whether you are a rabbi or not. And rioting is grounds for a curfew in the affected areas. Otherwise elements in the Haredi community would create anarchy. At the end of the day, it appears that rabbis and gay leaders have and will continue to compromise. The best solution of all is mutual tolerance and understanding.
19. Who is the real enemy of the state.
Rabin ,   NY, NY   (11.09.06)
The Land of Israel was given to us by god as a gift, but only when we obey his laws. Those homo don't respect the Torah, therefore they don't belong in Israel. It is holyland not homoland.
20. Hello?
A Yid ,   USA   (11.09.06)
> Once a country starts persecuting a minority Y'all persecute the bank robber "minority"? Rhetorical, no answer required. (And who exactly is trying to force whose view on whom? Without a parade nobody pays these chayas any heed...) > Would the Israeli public tolerate the same behavior from the Arabs as we have from the Orthodox of Bar Ilan Street? They don't? Right! They only "tolerate" kassams... By the by - notice how nobody chose Mecca? Only *our* ir hakodesh gets to play sensitive & tolerant...
21. dont they realize??????????
a jew ,   diaspora   (11.09.06)
they stregnth and prayer of the haredi are quite possibly what have kept the jewish people afloat despite the great sin and anti-torah attituted in the land of israel today. this parade will only bring more terror, stop this nonsense and read the torah- men wearing womens clothing and women wearing mens clothing are sins homosexual acts are sins. stop this shameful parade!!!!! Shame on israel for this "pride" parade hashem has given us many mircales in the past 60 years, we survived an attempted anhilation and built this great nation and fouhgt off our enemies, now we want to belive that "pride" is telling hashem your torah is a lie and your laws no longer matter? haredi violence is outright wrong however the entire nation must stand up and stop this parade. forcing a parade just to prove a point and intentionally insult a community and their g-d is immoral and unjust.
22. Depressed and suicidal
We are constantly told how much gays suffer from being depressed and suicidal. "Gay" is not really the word to describe someone who is depressed and suicidal. So the "experts" have decided that the cure for depression is to "come out of the closet." OK, what if a guy "comes out of the closet" and is still depressed and suicidal. Does he have other issues, does he need medications? No, it's "his family's fault" if they're not delighted with his gayness. When non-gays become depressed and suicidal, and it is not due to being secretly gay, they get therapy and medications. They are not recommended to act out all of their fantasies and that it's all their family's fault they have low self esteem. Why is there a one treatment of clinical depression for gays and a different treatment for everyone else?
23. Suicidal
Phillip ,   USA   (11.09.06)
If the extreme Orthodox ever gain control of Israel.... it will be the end of the nation. Talk about the Arabs living in the 6th century. The Orthodox live in 1st century and want the rest of the nation to go back in time. Wake Up before the country becomes suicidal.
24. #21 - Quite Possible
Marcus   (11.09.06)
And it's quite possible that the opposite is true, that the prayers of the haredim are what has kept Israel hated and at war with her naighbours. And it's quite possible that it is the work of the gays that has kept Israel free. And it is quite possible that tomorrow the sky will be red and the see will be purple. It's quite possible but it means nothing if you can't offer any kind of proof other than saying that it's quite possible or that you have faith that this is the truth.
25. rabbi's
charles ,   petach tikva   (11.09.06)
Everyone inciting violence should be arrested . You may be against , but not violently . You have not this freedom of speech . If you want this freedom of speech , give it also to others . For example : would you give freedom of speech to Shoa denyers ? No . Those denyers are also punished in Europe . Other chapter , you , the religious fanatics talk only of god , religion , Observance of [thora ] laws . Do you know that there are non believers ? so come with arguments we can accept , not religious [ Try first to follow them , before you ask others to do so , or is stone throwing also one of your laws ?] The only thing you have achieved this week is that tolerant non religious Jews are becoming anti charidi [ some even anti religious] and that you are be more and more banned from the Israeli society . A good result , not ?
26. Oh no!!
Unspecified ,   Seattle, USA   (11.09.06)
They've had a gay pride parade every year here in Seattle, and behold! The city has not been blasted into a wasteland by divine wrath! It has not slid into the ocean! Horrible plagues have not come to visit us! Every time I think I see a shred of enlightenment in humanity, I am confronted with the kind of hatred, bigotry, and intolerance over completely inconsequential things that perpetuates the violent conditions which the people of the middle east endure. Organized fundamentalist religion based on fire & brimstone texts from ancient times rife with ignorance is the worst plague that has ever been wrought upon this earth, and you who are spewing forth your hatred here are carriers of this disease...
27. A modest proposal
felix ,   US   (11.09.06)
Perhaps the rabbis can petition the government to require homosexuals to wear some kind of identifying badge, a pink triangle perhaps? So the good volk can know who they are dealing with. Just a thought.
28. Phillips i guarantee you Israel will end before
Bush ,   usa   (11.09.06)
the Religious take it over. At this rate the seculars are lost into protecting its citizens from terrorism. Sooner or later you will not have a country. I say bring in the religious and then we will truly see leadership. They will knock Hamas to mars. They don't give a crap about the EU UN or USA. Iran will be scared to ever call for its destruction or G-dless people. They will be more religious than them.They will do what is right to protecting its citizens. The only ones who will truly be hurt will be the seculars but not from terrorism. They won't even have to change but it will be hard to lower themselves under the religios wing. They won't be able to live with themselves feeling like nothings because they are so used to stepping on religious. Bu t definitely the day will come
29. Marcus If the sky turns red and the sea purple tomorrow
BUSH ,   USA   (11.09.06)
tell me then maybe i will believe you that when the Haredim constantly pray 10 and more times a day for Shalom they are creating hatred or when they pray 8 times a day that G-d should not let His enemies succeed with their plans against us and it should happen to them what they want to do to us they are creating a war. Tell me what do the seculars pray for if they do pray, that they should get accepted into the bars and clubs at 13, do they "prey" on the girls, on the haredim etc. Bring me proof that you guys pray for peace amongst Jews and in Israel as a whole from its enemies
30. Theocratic Democracy or Democratic Theocracy?
James Knight ,   Rochester, NY USA   (11.09.06)
Oy! That's the down side of faith-based and race-based nationalism. Whether it's an Islamic Republic or the Jewish State, xenophobia and ethno-centrism are time-honored and state-sponsored. Theocracy sucks!
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