Singles
Living at his expense
Karin Arad
Published: 30.11.06, 17:59
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1. So True
Gabriel ,   Montreal, Canada   (11.30.06)
Your article is extremetly important and I appreciate the level of maturity of the writer. Karin describe elocantely the eternal problem of man/woman relationship. Yet I believe that woman education both at home and school including culture is key in a relationship. To many woman man is just a provider. I had a few girfriends in Israel and true discussion they openly admit that man should provide money and lifestyle while they provide babies ( for there own securities) and sex...... Truly pathetic. Where is the room for true LOVE?????
2. To # 1 Get yourself a spell checker than a GF.....
Jimmy   (11.30.06)
3. a lot of crap
pilpelet   (11.30.06)
most of the woman in israel are hard working cope with a job two kids and still have time to make home cooked meals thay do a great deel more than europen woman , and thay have idont know how to,break the dishes, cant keep the baby quite parteners. but i must addmite(even though i dont want to )a lot better and more intouch than in my time.
4. A Tribute to Prostitution
enzo ,   london,uk   (11.30.06)
That's the feeling I get reading this article. No woman should give herself to a man for money!
5. Wow, Karen
Little Miss Muffett ,   Sitting on a Tuffett   (11.30.06)
Your article sees things in such a cold way when it comes to love, reducing it all to some cold calculation. What about love? What about men who are supported by women when they lose a job? I've seen this happen as many times as I've seen a man support a woman who loses her job. (Maybe it's different here in the States.) Side point: Men and women are DIFFERENT. That doesn't mean one is better than the other. Many, but not all, men feel driven to be providers. Many, but not all, women feel driven to be nurturers. The sexes are different, each with their strong points that complement the other. Celebrate the differences.
6. Speak for yourself, Karen
George W ,   Chicago IL   (11.30.06)
Not to sound all smug, and I'm not sure what you've been through, but I can't relate to your article at all. I've had great relationships when I was a poor starving student, or even when I was unemployed right after college. And, every relationship I've been in, the girl would have sex with me not so I would keep giving her money but because SHE WANTS TO HAVE SEX. If I have more money I will gladly pay for dinner, etc. and if she makes more money than me that's no problem. I'm here to report that great relationships that are about love not money are in fact possible, and I really doubt I'm alone in that. If the relationship is just about money then you're probably better off just dumping the guy, and instead you should get a job so you have money without sleeping with some loser you don't even like.
7. The Author doesn't seem to know
Grant ,   Philadelphia, PA   (11.30.06)
why people get into relationships... She's looking for explanations... lust, infatuation, money, sex. But she doesn't seem to understand the idea of deep companionship, of the benefits that people gain when they are in a loving relationship. She is right that some women use men, and some men use women. She is also right that many people get into relationships as a result of their own psycho-spiritual flaws, and not merely to add a different level of goodness to their lives. But what is frightening is that Karen, and maybe thousands of other young women and men, don't seem to even be able to see what that goodness is - the shared experiences, the person-on-your side, the chance to create a family.
8. To # 2 --- Another Smart Alec
Gabriel ,   Montreal, Canada   (12.01.06)
9. To # 7
(12.01.06)
I do agree with you. But Karen seems to relate about average Israeli women in a Middle Eastern Culture. Believe me I saw a lot of women who are more interested by your money then by the love and goodness in a relationship. That is Israel my friend...
10. Mutual exploitation vs Love and Nurturing
Fasulia Hudra   (12.01.06)
The situation described by Ms. Arad is at best the lowest basest level in the complex relationships between men and women described in a self-depricating fashion. If one's perspective is solely derived from the bar hopping meatmarket scene, I certainly can understand her point of view. On the other hand when men and women begin to ascend the ladder of love and add dimensions of communications, emotional investment, nurturing, sensitivity, bilateral support and so forth the relationship is transformed to something far more sublime. But there are many obstacles that must be overcome before one can reach the pinnacle. First of all, we are products of our environment and targets of stereotypes. Men shouldn't cry and women have to dumb down to protect the frail male ego. The list goes on and on. The key is communications, to sit down, to lower self defense mechanisms with someone that you trust not to manipute/exploit vulnerabilities, to explore oneself and ultimately each other. If the connection clicks, one can then continue to nurture and support each other adding sensitivity, sensuality, and ultimately reaching the point of building a proper loving home that is the appropriate environment to raise children properly. This does not mean molding oneself and each other into someone else's social stereotype but to define your own relationship which may grow and change over time. And once again the key is communications, the connection, and periodic maintenance to make sure you grow together in both meanings of the word (with and towards each other). Otherwise the author may well be right. She is just another trophy and he is just another meal ticket in a series of one night stands.
11. 'Woman-bone of my bones'
marilyn   (12.01.06)
The problem at the moment is the confusion in the roles of women and men. Woman liberation, so called pushed for the woman to wear the pants and take over the mans role.But believe it or not each one of us has our 'place' and 'order in the scheme of Gods will, that will be done on this earth.' Men are the 'providers' for their 'families' thats their role. Women are to be submissive to the man and be his 'helper' in raising his children and providing a stress free enviroment. Her work is good work and a 'worker is worthy of their wages' . you may say thats not the way of the world at the moment , and I will say have a good look at the world with its youth suicides its breakdown in family life and work the rest out for yourselves.
12. Your woman-hating friend should move...
Glenn ,   USA   (12.01.06)
to America, where every woman I know is so desperate for a man that they go out with any weasel even if she has a PHd and he's a gas station attendant. Look at Britney Spears and KFed. They're really not that rare. Not only this but these same guys get to be "king of her castle". So, yeah, I think he should move.
13. Lesbian and Rich!!!!! Who needs men?
Sharit, USA ,   USA   (12.01.06)
Moved to US, with no money, gay, now very rich!!
14. hey Men, all womens boobs sag and hold pencils
ahmed bornstein ,   ny, ny   (12.01.06)
men need to understand that their wives get wrinkles, stretch marks and saggy boobs. and don't forget that MEn are the ones that need to take viagra because their wankers die out at the age of 23
15. nature
Darwin   (12.02.06)
Quit judging men's and women's behavior as good or bad.....more appropriate to see it as successful. Our species has thrived because of inherent , subconscience biological imperitives.....i.e. our reasons for choosing mates are the result of eons of evolution....and these practices have succeeded (we are here!) It is only in the very recent history of humankind that women have acquired the ability to support children without a man......not nearly enough time for evolved imperatives to change. So women have attractive appearance....men are attracted....and women choose to mate with those who can provide for them and offspring. And another generation survives and repeats the process. Ain't love grand!
16. what bull
Julia ,   Israel   (12.02.06)
as a woman whose been financialy independant since age 18 (yes, including paying for my own university), I know I will never go from dady to my husband. Even if I never married, I would never end up on the welfare role because I work hard. Unlike this parasite, independance is important to me and it helps, not hinders my relationships with men.
17. Living at his expense
Petra ,   USA   (12.02.06)
What about a dowry? Where does that come in? So, a girl marries and wants her husband to be able to support their children as she will not be able to leave them and earn what he does. Basis survival skills. She learns of support from her family and social structure. Then, theres the case where a man 'propositions' a lady. They call this 'the worlds oldest profession". Could be for a couple of reasons that she agrees. Fear of harm or rape, money to feed her children or herself, ignorance, social status..whatever, the man has the power not the woman. Face it, the man starts the ball rolling by the 'offer' of money -the act of being a whore is to agreeing to the terms of the man with the gilt...Aren't they both equally guilty?
18. To # 17 Petra
Gabriel ,   Montreal, Canada   (12.02.06)
Petra,u r describing a tribal point of view... this is trully pathethic in the 21 Century. As a man, whith that kind of spirit, I would ratter be alone......Or looking for Much more educated women
19. ahmed bornstein
Falafel Cholent   (12.03.06)
tonight for dinner I fixed an asparagus lemon thyme soup (with heavy cream) and also I made a lemon blueberry pound cake for dessert. Tomorrow I'm making raspberry cheesecake muffins. Am I spelling FALAFEL wrong? I see you spell it FELAFEL. Which one of us is right?
20. Marilyn
Falafel Cholent   (12.03.06)
In your talkbacks you always seem so earnest, but I gotta tell ya: chill out a little, live life to the fullest, don't try to follow some program. Above all, EAT!
21. ahmed, p.s.
Falafel Cholent   (12.03.06)
what do you mean about saggy women's boobs holding pencils? I don't get it!
22. #13 Sharit - He/She is rich who is happy with their lot
Fasulia Hudra   (12.03.06)
Sharit, I tuly wish you every happiness. I also know that one can not project one's standards, goals, and aspirations on others. My shoes may not fit your feet. I also don't know what shallow men or hurt may have caused you such bitterness. I do not condemn a woman loving a woman but maybe you may change your mind one day about us. I can guarantee you that there are good kind men out there. I know there are many people out there who are ill suited to be parents but those who are and make a loving home to raise and enjoy children have a treasure that you may wish to reconsider discarding. The dynamic of a loving husband and wife watching their child's first steps and the entire road to college graduation and beyond is amonst the greatest treasures one can possess. In any case I hope you find your happiness where ever it may be. All the Best, Kov Tuv, Fasulia
23. Women give a lot more than they get
Meira ,   Israel   (12.03.06)
I have been married for over 40 yrs, and although much of that time I have been living on my partner's earnings, I have contributed labour (cooking,cleaning, shopping, childcare, queing at the bank) and other services too numerous to mention. No ordinary man can afford to pay for all those services out of his salary. In addition I have borne him 4 healthy children who have produced many fine grandchildren who love and honour him. I am also essential to the smooth running of his office (he is self-emplyed) for no financial reward whatsoever. All these benefits are not part of a deal where he pays and I accept. And I havent even included "sexual services" which the writer's misogynistic friend substitutes for a loving relationship.
24. it is not true
marwa ,   jerusalem   (12.03.06)
even if you look from the surface it is not true // the woman is looking fore marrage . becouse she want to marry ,,even if she look to have a boy friend the purpose mostly to marry // yes iam an araby girl .. but i think the jew one is the same // as i raed before that some jewish girls hanged the inner cloths to a tree near a tomb of areligouse jew ..for asking the marrage .. and i said [ it is the woman evry where .. but asking the money fore the sex is another social custom .. it is for need of the money .. or to get something instead of what you can give /// or may be i want to try ..as one girl had told me ..when i asked her ...why you give the sex to the man ////
25. #24 Marwa - Today's world is complicated and changed
Fasulia Hudra   (12.03.06)
Marwa Sa'idati, Marchaba W'Tsharafna. It is nice to meet you in a virtual world in a nonviolent and positive dialogue. In other writings I have said that we are products of our environments and targets of stereotypes. We are born into societies and trained to behave in certain ways. But things are constantly changing. Over time men have been physically stronger and controlled governments, societies, religions, and cultures. Women were often barred from education, government, and many professions. Women had to adapt and develop survival skills. In many societies women controlled the house, raising of children, and occasion limited education in schools when allowed. Male control in some societies was so bad that they employed the women to damage and destroy baby girls through Female Genital Mutilation so men could control the women for their ego or whatever. In Pakistan male dominated tribal courts ruled that girls must be raped as punishment. The abuses of women are too numerous to list and we must all work to fix this. Over time in various societies women have begun getting education, the ability for financial independence, and started to stand up for their rights and decent treatment. In some cases societies, religions, and cultures had to revisit their rules and treatment of women and update them appropriately. Some societies and tribes are unwilling to change and incapable of seeing how horribly wrong they are for mistreating their women. The short of it is things are changing, sometimes for the good and sometimes not - but they are changing. Getting to your point now. At the core of it all most men are taken back by a beautiful woman and woman also want handsome husbands that can be good providers and fathers of their children. But once women can get educated, work, have rights and so forth the dynamic changes and women can be more equal partners in almost ways. Husbands should not ORDER their wives to do their commands and woman should never have to live in fear. Instead through mutual respect and love they should be able to built a loving home as equal partners. Ironically Arabic as a language in this regard treats women better although the culture may not. In Hebrew the word husband is 'Ba'al" literally "master". In Arabic it is "Jowge" which is more like partner - (Hebrew speakers it is the Zug in Ben-Zug converted to Arabic form). By the way I am a man and have always treated my girlfriends and women with honor and respect. Again Marwa, it is a pleasure to meet you. Ma'ah Salame W'Alla Ma'ik
26. Marwa, If you read my response and the English is dificult,
Fasulia Hudra   (12.03.06)
Marwa, If you have difficulties with the English in my response when they print it, please drop my an email and I will rewrite what I wrote in simpler English. Ma'a Saleme, Fasulia
27. to fasulia
marwa ,   jerusalem   (12.04.06)
i understand what you were writing .. but simply /i mean that the woman need the marrage not only for mony or as a partner or even to try ..it is socialy need to live in a family ..and it is the base prinsiple and the circumstanses may valid it //but sure it still the base and the essential one through the history and in all cultures .. it is my openion .. not yours .. salam .. iam an educated woman .i never need money from any one .my father was not a rich one ..but he was a great man .and i liked to marry to have a great man and a grate family like what i had .. i think my openion is based on how i look for the role of the family in any sociaty
28. not true...
moi ,   Tel Aviv   (12.04.06)
Which planet is this woman living on? When I met my boyfriend, he was unemployed, For almost 3 years I financially supported him, even invested in his studies, we are still happy together with a beautiful babydaughter. He eventually found a job that he likes. Those 3 years were difficult, not because I financially supported him, but because he got depressed, but our strong love for eachother helped us through this period....
29. Throwback to 1930's
IndependantJew ,   haifa, israel   (12.04.06)
Sorry Sister but like myself more women are able to support themselves these days than in the early 1900's. Now we have access to education and very few barriers exist to prevent us women from being fully self sufficient. It's so unfortunate that you and your friends choose to play the helpless game.
30. the ketubah treats women like property, like donkeys
ahmedi bornstein ,   ny, ny   (12.07.06)
so if a woman is meant to be property passed from her father to her husband why not go gay, find a lesbian lover and take over microsoft?
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