Just a question, everyone here keeps insisting that all Haredim are parasites existing on welfare money. So I have to ask, where do they get all the money to buy all these plane tickets to keep an entire airline in business? It seems to me that people who live on welfare would not be able to afford expensive luxuries like airplane tickets. My parents, who BOTH WORK, would love to visit Israel to see their children and grandchildren, but they can't afford the exorbitant tickets and my mom can't afford to take off work. So who is paying for all these "deadbeat, welfare-taking" Haredim airline tickets? Could it be--that maybe they are actually successful wealthy business people?

Well said Kyle

I try to be Sagi and not Sagi Nahor My values aim high and are galore Said he, ehov et reacha cmocha Need I say some more The world is but a narrow bridge Even high upon a ridge You will always meet your match And not know what the day will hatch The Torah is fine but is a yoke Freedom comes tough 'tis no joke. We suffered two exiles from our Land and 2000 years of servitude and humilitation. Freedom came at a very high price, in blood, sacred blood. We must be free to act, think and behave as we please in our own land, within the framework of the law, without imposing restrictions and constraints on each other. The same way as I have no right to tell a Haredi how to live his life, he has no right to tell me how to live mine. I should have the right to walk down the street in Jerusalem without some black coat accosting me, grabbing my arm and asking me to lay tephillin. Likewise he should have the right to lay tephillin at any time and in any place he desires.The Haredi have a right to expect me not to drive through their neighborhood on Shabbat but they have no right to tell me not to drive. Tolerance is the key, the problem is that the secular, in the main,are prepared to tolerate the Haredim, whereas the Haredim are not prepared to tolerate the secular. As I said, and as you know, all the world is but a narrow bridge. United we will stand forever, divided we shall fall, as in the distant past. United means everyone must pull his weight, everyone must give as much as possible. Around every corner awaits for us another Nebuchadnezzar and another frustrated corporal. We do not need internal enemies as well. Division is an internal enemy. The Haredim are causing this division. Not the secular.

el al without haredim would be a plus.

Haredim aren't going to be the only ones outraged by this, you can expect even traditionalists to boycott El Al for this. So the customer base is bigger than some of you think.

It is so sad that there are so many comments from the open minded left yet so full of hatred. Don't you realize that only when we are together as a people will we grow and prosper. I made Aliyah this summer and consider it my obligation to love all Jews - if the left leaning & religous fearful - would channel their energy into love and tolerance with no exceptions this country could meet all challenges.

And what do they think of the charidim ? better not to tell you [ to funny ] I lived in Belgium probably much more than you , was often in friendly relationship with non Jewish people , who knew i am . Let me tell you , that there were Jewish men , who behaved so badly , that i , hadnt i be Jewish would become antisemite . Yes there are secular Israelis who do'nt behave allright , this you will find everywhere , in all society's , Belgian , Dutch , Spanish and so on , everywhere . I made maybe 20 flights to and from Tel Aviv .Disturbing people , most indisciplined , most exigeant [ first of all badatz food ] those were always charidi . How many times had an hostess not to tell them to sit . Ounce i came to Tel Aviv , Tischa be'av . They did not eat , ok . But half an hour before landing , the fast was over , and then they made a scandal because they did not receive food anymore . If you call this fine behaviour , I not.

I cannot believe the hatred shown by everyone here towards Haredim. Are we all not people? Are we all not allowed to live the way we wish? What real danger is there in NOT flying on Saturdays? What real danger is there in loving your fellow Jew? This is all sinat chinam- baseless hatred. This is why we don't deserve the Third Temple...why Moshiach hasn't come and why we are being attacked from all sides. Learn to love and get to know someone different than you.

I too am from Petach Tikva and travelled on another fast. the 17th of Tamuz. (I fast on Yom Kippur and Tish B'av .) The charming( we chatted throut the flight) very religious fellow in front of my husband and me, was handed a meal as the fast went out, and was extremely grateful and thanked the hostess so many times. How sad that you're all so overweight with excess hate baggage .Bunch of depressing miseries. I hope you're never on any of my flights. I'd recognize you by your sour miserable faces, that's for sure.

Well i'm sure i met you already in town . A bipede with all the horrors possible in one corpse . Not even human .You were sitting in a wheelchair in the midracha , with a nice philipine girl helping you . You see , contrary to my general behaviour , i can also come to your low insulting level . If you received a meal after fasting , fine for you . It was probably more than half an hour before landing , when they arrange everything . I only told what happened , this was not meant as anti religious , only to show those people did not understand what can and what can not be done . That's all . Try to read correctly before insulting someone . You have not to apologise , everything what is said has the value of who has said it . In this case : less than nothing

Listen Bracha , today i spoke with a religious person i know very well . We had an hour long discussion about the way some "religious" behave . It's sad to say , not always in the way religious should do . You are maybe a true religious person , with hart and in deeds , i don't know you , but i presume you are . Do'nt you think that "true" believers should give an example of fine behaviour , as you are teached ? Do'nt say they hate us [ that's not true , we hate the bad behaviour of some ] We the secular want to let you live , but we want the same from you . I'm always very tolerant , respectfull , but want reciprocity . Is this hatred ? is this too much for you to give ? This religious person also agreed with what i said , the same i'm writing now . LIVE THE WAY YOU WANT . LET US LIVE THE WAY WE WANT . Then we can love each other , can respect each other and can live together in this country

You are a right charlie, and I take it English language isn't your strong point. I wasn't fasting, honey bun, or angry croissant or whatever else you are, charlie boy. Mon dieu, quel idiot...

To work together, there are some sectors where we must work together and be flexible. One of these is Shabbos. Even if I was not religious, I would still respect the fact that there is a group who wants to observe this and if they happen to have a view that it would make travelling safer, then by all means I would follow it(by land air or seas). In fact I can think of plenty of things I would do on shabbos if I wasn't religious- do my homework, reconnect with friends, just have a good time. I'll chat with any non-religious person on the street to bring understanding to this issue. It's something I think is urgent to address. Tolerance and acceptence is my dream for Israel to acheive.

As you are Jerusalmite , Why do you use the Galut Shabbos term , and not Shabbat ? Why should i not drive on Shabbat ? Even when i respect others faith and liberty to observe , do not criticise this , why have i to abide on your views ? Can't you not also give me the liberty to do what i want ?

Coming from an anonymous , this doe's not hurt me . only scorn . Pauvre etre meprisable .

You wrote : must be flexible . Very fine . You would still respect the fact .......very very fine . Why are'nt you flexible ? why must the secular be , and you not ? In my eyes this is not tolerance of your part . If we drive on Shabbat [ not Shabbos ] it's not le'hach'is . it's just as you wrote , to have a good time .

If they want to wear "clown suits" let them do it . If they are wearing not adapted clothes for the Israeli summer , do you suffer from this ? This week i sat on a bus , first row . On the Kaplan stop , a charidi man came on the bus , but when he saw the driver was female , he immediatly left . Had to wait another 15 or 20 minutes for the next one . I did not loose time , he ! Stupid guy .

Kyle , do you know what the poorest Jewish citys are ? I'll tell you : Jerusalem and Bne Brak . Two charidi populated towns . They probably not travel . They are those who live at the expense of the secular [ and not charidi religious ] population . There are charidi businnes men , well dressed , and those fly , mostly to the USA i think . If your Parents are both working and if they can'nt afford to fly to Israel to visit children and grandchildren , there is something wrong with their house budget management . Your Mother can not afford to take off ? Even not for Pesach ? They are certainly also religious , and religious people generally do not work on Hol Hamoed . So do not tell nonsense , if they want , they can visit .

( like de Gaulle?) Annonymous? No way. Wouldn't give you that pleasure mon ami. Quel homme...

Not like the Gaulle , he died some 35 years ago , and i'm still alive . Ne vous en deplaise . I've found a fine place for you : Musee des horreurs . I'm not your ami

I haven't fully converted to using Shabbat after moving here not so long ago. I honestly don't care if a secular person wants to drive on Shabbat. That is not my concern. If they want to drive, drive. I am one who has always held that to hold to the stricter opinion for the sake of peace, even if it means my own discomfort, is something I stand for. Just because I don't agree with it, doesn't mean I can't respect these people and their way of life. I am willing to watch how I speak, I am willing to watch how I dress if it means peace. I will go out of my way to create a comfortable situation for those who hold to a "higher" standard. I can assure you that this thought was well implanted in my belief system before I even thought about becoming religious.

If i did understand you , you accept that people have an other way of life , and even this is not your way , you respect them . Well Bracha , If it is so [ i hope ] i can only respect you too . You may have another way , for me no problem . If you are tolerant , i'm also . Have a fine "sof Schavoua" and a good Shabbat . PS I too am an ole chadash , 5 years . A question : in Yiddish i say Shabbes , from where comes this Shabbos ? i'm curious to know . Can someone explain ?

(sadly not Aznavour, who is charming and spreads happiness....) Cheer up, smile and then get a life!

Agree with you , Charles aznavour is a great singer , whom i appreciate . I prefer other but they are not Charles . If you understand french as i do , there are many greater . Brassens , Brel , Barbara [ was Jewish ! ] Montand and of course : La grande Dame de la chanson Francaise , Edith Piaf . I "get a life" as you wrote , and enjoy plenty of times . Have a nice time

This is where it starts Charles. We just need this in other areas of society. Mazel tov on your decision to make aliyah. Never too late to congradulate. There are different forms of yiddish. Depending on what country the yiddish came from depends on how its pronounced.

"Just a question, everyone here keeps insisting that all Haredim are parasites existing on welfare money. So I have to ask, where do they get all the money to buy all these plane tickets to keep an entire airline in business?" My understanding is that El Al's business is mostly international, and that the NYC-Tel Aviv route is especially important. This means to me that El Al depends on New York Jews, especially frummies. While I expect the New York frummies not be all that rich, nobody says that THEY are parasites. BTW, I have not seen a shred of evidence that the typical Israeli Haredi citizen is much of a flier. Until I see the evidence, I flatly reject the claim. But Haredi edicts might well be respected by New York frumies.

I know there are different prononciations in Yiddish . But as far i know , only USA Jews prononce Shabbos . Shabbos , shabbes or Shabbat , have a fine one