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'Dead' Bnei Brak child turns up alive and well in Canada
Chaim Levinson
Published: 12.12.06, 13:20
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38 Talkbacks for this article
1. Why?
Chaya ,   Bat Yam   (12.12.06)
But why in the world were the parents lied to???
2. "Dead" babies
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (12.12.06)
This sort of thing, unfortunately, did happen back then and not just with Jewish children. Some doctors, mostly in rural areas, believed they were god and decided who did or did not "need" a child or who could provide a child with a better life than, let's say, an unmarried, poor woman could. From there it was only a short step to the practice's becoming very lucrative, and some children were, literally, "auctioned off" to the highest bidder. Due to improved communications, record-keeping and stiff penalties, the practice has come to a halt. That doesn't keep some people from "trading" their newborns for drugs, cars or whatever, but that, too, has severe penalties attached, and handing the child over to relatives or putting it up for adoption is a much better alternative than that sudden detox in jail. Besides, with our screwed up welfare system, a baby is worth its weight in $$ in some States.
3. 2# Have you heard about the word "money" sweetheart ?
gabriela ben ari ,   jerusalem   (12.12.06)
4. he's not jewish
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (12.12.06)
if he wasn't raised as a jew, he's not jewish. this is what everyone in the talkbacks corrected me on, so according to what they say, he ain't jewish. just a goy like me.
5. 4 - Mike
(12.12.06)
His mother was Jewish - HE'S JEWISH!!!! any rabinical court in the country will agree.
6. #4 - if your mother is Jewish then you are Jewish ..
redmike ,   tel aviv & london   (12.12.06)
why not the father ? Because it's (generally) clear who the mother is ! The father ? Well who knows ? Mike
7.  #3 that's where "lucrative" and "$$" came in
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (12.12.06)
8. 5
(12.12.06)
Because the mother actually gives birth to the child - a Jewish man can have sex and produce a baby with a woman who isn't a Jew - that baby would be considered not Jewish and also a Bastard.
9. Stolen Babies
Eli M. ,   Monsey NY   (12.12.06)
My dear friend who lives in Rosh Haayin Israel, had his brother stolen/robbed/kidnapped Call it whatever you want, this is because the secular Zionist thought that it is better to raise him as a chilony / goy. Could you imagine the pain when they where told that he died and was buried and later found an empty grave. Therefore it is an obligation to bring back to Yidiskeit as many Yemenites as possible.
10. 5, 6
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (12.12.06)
well, i have argued endlessly that someone with 2 jewish parents, regardless of personal belief, is jewish. including secular israelis. however, i have been rebuffed EVERY time by countless others who claim that only someone from a jewish mother that practices judaism is a jew. anything else is NOT jewish. so which is it?
11. STILL JEWISH
ALAN ,   USA   (12.12.06)
REMEMBER THERE WERE JEWISH KIDS RAISED BY NON JEWS DURING THE WAR, AND JEWS WHO HID DURING THE INQUISITION, ARE THET NOT JEWS?
12. mike - here's your answer
joseph ,   US   (12.12.06)
baby from a jewish woman = jewish ; baby from a jewish man & nonjewish woman = not jewish baby ; it doesnt matter how the child is raised. once a jew always a jew. the Torah tells you this and not the "logic" that you know who the mother is and you may not know who the father is.
13. typical
hymie ,   brooklyn   (12.12.06)
why is this story not on your hebrew site or other news outlets
14. Who is a Jew, etc
Itzik ,   Haifa   (12.12.06)
He is Jew because his Mother was a Jew. Nothing to talk about. Second, Jewisj is not only religious term. It is nationality. In US people change so-called religions several times which has nothing to do with nationality (I am not talking about citizeship). For Muslems, the same rules apply but only the father determines nationality. For example, your congressman Barak Hussain Obams is Muslem though he may tell you that he is secular or christian. There is no contradiction. He may be even all 3 for some people but he is 100% Muslem.
15. to #8 and Mike
ezra ,   canada   (12.12.06)
Sorry #8, but a baby born to a jewish man and a nnon jewish woman is not jewish according to the jewish law... but he is NOT a bastard (mamzer). A bastard is a baby born to an incestous or adulterous relationship ONLY. And Mike, the jewish law is at it is : a Jew is someone born to a jewish mother or converted by a rabbinical tribunal after circumcison and ritual bath. For example, Lustiger, the archbishop of Paris who is born to a jewish mother and has been adopted by christians parents during the holocaust is still jewish according to the jewish law. He is therefore considered an apostate Jew.
16. Mike
Gene ,   Raleigh, USA   (12.12.06)
Everyone corrects you because you're and idiot. Too stupid to research the information.
17. 12 - well, there's a whole lot of jews who say you're wrong
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (12.12.06)
i agree with you, don't get me wrong. i think most jews draw the line at a jew (with both parents jewish) who believes in jesus. they say their jewish blood physically changes to gentile blood at that point. whatever.
18. to Itzik, number 15
scott ,   usa   (12.12.06)
this is incorrect once a person accepts the divinity of our lord and savior, jesus the messiah, so promised to the children of abraham in the Torah, you become a member of the messiahs church...christianity pre-messiah followers of the god of moses and abraham were just proto-christians...judaism did not become a religion until they cast away their ranks who followed the messiah
19. Mike, in the US I know quite a few who are jewish, while
(12.12.06)
their mothers are not. As a matter of fact I attended Jewish weddings, bar mitzvahs, brizes where either mothers or grandmothers on mother’s side were not Jewish. all those people considered themselves Jewish, continued Jewish traditions, support israel and couldn't care less what the rabbis in Israel or the orthodox have to say on the subject, since they have nothing to do with the orthodox in their daily life. It is quite unfortunate that with all the problems facing the Jews, Israel allows the ultra orthodox determine who is Jewish. By the way, with all the new technology, it is no longer true that we can only know for sure who the mother is; to the contrary, it is quite possible this days that the father is a true genetic parent, while the ‘mother’ who gave the birth is only an incubator, with no genetic connection, which makes the old law no longer truly relevant, but even silly. Would a child born to a Jewish woman implanted with an ovum of a gentile woman be Jewish or gentile? After all the real mother of that child is not Jewish, and should you really involuntarily ‘convert’ that child? If you can do that, why not then a child born to a non-Jewish mother who wants to raise her child in her husband’s Jewish faith? Some traditions can and should be changed and this one is a prime example.
20. #12 Not in the Torah
Kate ,   jerusalem   (12.12.06)
Joseph, nowhere does the Torah state (or even imply) that a Jew is born of Jewish mother. Nor does it state, imply or otherwise infer that someone with only patrilineal Jewish decent is NOT Jewish. The practise probably originated at Yavneh as a result of the diaspora. Today it is accepted by all Orthodox streams, the State of Israel and the majority of the Conservative movement. But it is not written in the Torah.
21. #12 - where is it in the Torah !
redmike ,   tel aviv & london   (12.12.06)
baby from a jewish woman = jewish correct. "the Torah tells you this and not the "logic" that you know who the mother is and you may not know who the father is". Where is this written ? The right of return is based on knowing who the mother is. ... I know because I made Aliaya and was accecpted. My father was Jewish and my mother wasn't but I underwent an Orthodox conversion in the US under the auspices of the Beth Din. Via the mother 'yes' but never once heard that this is in the Torah. regards, Michael
22. Confused #18, #19
Itzik ,   Haifa   (12.12.06)
The problem is not what you think you are. You may think that you are a son of Napoleon (and there a lot of these folks in hospitals in France). The Father of Karl Marx (communist) converted to Christianity but he was still a Jew, and Marx was a Jew. You 2 are totally mixed up. If your Mother is Jew you are a Jew, if not you are NOT a Jew. You may convert but this is extremely, extremely difficult according to Torah.
23. #19 - So intelligent yet insist on anonymity?
A Yid ,   USA   (12.12.06)
--As a matter of fact I attended Jewish weddings, bar mitzvahs, brizes where either mothers or grandmothers on mother’s side were not Jewish. What makes these ceremonies "Jewish"? The bagels? The "rabbis" that cherry pick which of the laws they'll follow? Everone into the pool! Whoever wants to be a Jew is a Jew! Whoever wants to be a neurosurgeon is one! Whoops, I take that back. Doesn't sound right... --all those people considered themselves Jewish, continued Jewish traditions, support israel mom, flag, and apple-pie. --and couldn't care less what the rabbis in Israel or the orthodox have to say on the subject Uh, they seem to take their Jewishness VERY seriously --It is quite unfortunate that with all the problems facing the Jews, Israel allows the ultra orthodox determine who is Jewish. No, it doesn't. It is definitely not the orthodox make that determination, but rather a set of laws that have been passed down for generations. And only the orthodox are willing to live with the restrictions and discipline this calls for. --By the way, with all the new technology, it is no longer true that we can only know for sure who the mother is; And just *how* do you know that that's the reason? Why do you accept the scientific finding that a daughter carries genetic disease while a son does not, yet you can't apply the same logic of genetics to Jewish heritage? Perhaps somehow the mother gives the child something that the father doesn't? (I really don't care, I'm wise enough to concede that the lawmakersa knew more than I) Oh, as to definitely knowing who the mother is? This is why when praying for recuperation from an illness the sick individual is called by Mr. Ploni Ben Ms. Plonis whereas for non life-threatening events such as being called to the torah, the father's name is invoked.
24. To #4
Jasmin ,   Haifa   (12.12.06)
Are you sure, Mike? Sounds pretty strange to me. Last I heard, any child of a Jewish mother was Jewish.
25. to Mike
Hilda ,   USA   (12.12.06)
No, darling, he is indeed Jewish. It doesn;t matter that he wasn;t brought up Jewish His parents were both Jewish. A child born of a Jewish mother is Jewish. There were many children during the Holacaust who were such . Some were returned . Others were stolen and never returned even some became Nuns and priests.
26. What a sad story - I wish this man and the family peace.
Andy ,   ramat hasharon   (12.12.06)
27. Unspeakable horror after WWII...Shame on us all!
Al ,   Canada   (12.12.06)
To think that State of Israel was founded to be a safe harbor for Jews and to have this outrageous act performed to a Jewish couple boggles the mind. There will no greater hell for those who allowed these outrages to occur. The State of Israel is screwed up, led by fools for fools. I hope and pray that should G-D heaven forbid decide to punish The STATE of Israel for its transgressions against his people, it will be swift and painless, but I doubt it.
28. Who is a Jew
Mordechai Housman ,   Monsey, USA   (12.12.06)
Mike, no offense, but you are mistaken. Jewish Law says that if a person's mother is Jewish, then that person is Jewish forever and always, no matter what.
29. who is a Jew
Benyamin ,   HaGalil, Israel   (12.12.06)
I only wish that the State of Israel agreed with most of your opinions...once a Jew always a Jew. I have numerous Jewish (2 Jewish parents by birth) friends and acquaintances that were denied citizenship as Jews simply because they believed in Jesus. It seems that in this "democratic" country of ours, you can believe any way you like as long as it's not in Jesus.
30. #29 - Benyamin
Dovid N. ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (12.13.06)
True once a Jew always a Jew, but apostate need not apply to live here. Benyamin, what is your address and phone so I can have you deported.
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