Jewish Scene
'Crypto-Jews' call New Mexico home
Associated Press
Published: 13.12.06, 17:18
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29 Talkbacks for this article
1. They are Jews and should make aliyah
Mark ,   USA   (12.13.06)
Israel loves all. Israel loves aliyah. Israel needs aliyah. The more the merrier. Diversity is best. Israel is a melting pot of Jews.
2. Just Be Careful is All I'm Saying
Debbie ,   Jerusalem   (12.13.06)
So-called 'messianic judaism' has spread everywhere and those who get into it and have a hispanic connection might imagine themselves to be crypto-Jews when they aren't . Amazing how things have changed. The original crypto-Jews had to hide their Jewishness and pretend to be xians. Nowadays xians want to pretend to be Jewish while hiding their belief in Yashke so they can come to Israel and infiltrate the Jewish people.
3. This may be the real thing
SAM ,   USA   (12.13.06)
real "Marronos" still exist. In Spain they are called Chuetas and some are actually devout Catholics. I have had the occasion and honor of knowing a man from Spaqin who was catholic, but practised judaism like a Marrano. One of the customs practised was writing the inscription in a mazzuza on a dorr jam and painting over it. This way no one will know the prayer is there. Its not my place to say, but wouldn't it be righteous to welcome back these Jews? Aren't the 12 tribes going to be re-united in Israel? Could situations as described in this article be part of this prophesy?
4. #1 you are right #2 you are sick
Esteban ,   Argentina   (12.13.06)
5. Of the 78 people tested, 30 are positive COHANIM DNA
Brandon ,   Sac, California   (12.13.06)
He began a DNA project to test his relatives, along with some parishioners at Albuquerque's St. Edwin's Church, where he works. As word got out, others in the community began contacting him. So Sanchez expanded the effort to include Hispanics throughout the state. Of the 78 people tested, 30 are positive for the marker of the Cohanim, whose genetic line remains strong because they rarely married non-Jews throughout a history spanning up to 4,000 years.
6. Right if return?
RA   (12.13.06)
Im wondering if they will be given right of return.
7. #2 has a good point
HJ ,   US   (12.13.06)
I tend to agree. In Fort Myers, FL, there is a 'messianic synagogue' .. Our local jewsh Federaton knows all about them. To see what they do, I went there and it is like a church. One hour of praise and worship about the yeshua man then a break for tithes and then a torah reading and the 'rabbi' speaks for another 45 to 50 minutes. All followed by an oneg. In fact , I know a family from Colombia who left to go to Israel but they are not jewish despite changing all their names to Hebrew ones. Most likely they are hooked up with a messianic group there.
8. 'Crypto-Jews'
Doubting Thomas ,   San Francisco, CA   (12.13.06)
Last week through mtDNA testing by FamilyTreeDNA, I found out that I'm Jewish. In fact I'm a genetic match to one of the four women from whom 80% of today's Ashkanazi Jews are descended. Am I a Jew? Is my DNA proof enough for the Sephardic Chief Rabbi Shlomo Amar or to a Beit Din that I'm a Jew or will I have to undergo conversion? Am I a Jew? Is my DNA proof enough for the Sephardic Chief Rabbi Shlomo Amar or to a Beit Din that I' a Jew or will I have to undergo conversion?
9. This is the Real Thing
Sam Weinstein ,   USA   (12.13.06)
Of course this is a true part of Judism. There are studys that indicate that close to 10% of Hispanic Americans may be descended from Marranos. We need all the people we can in our religon. We should help as much as possible.
10. #1 - FOOL
Paul ,   Austin, USA   (12.13.06)
Actually, these Jews should remain in the US. They're Americans, not Israelis. They would only be treated like trash in Israel, anyway. #3- It would, it seems, be righteous to embrace these people as Jews, but not with the "Support Israel 100% OR ELSE" strings attached. Let them make their own spiritual and ethnic choices without forcing politics into the matter. Israel is the burden of the Ashkenazim and the Sefaradim that were punked into going along with it.
11. Are Naturei Karta really jews?
Choser   (12.14.06)
Test them DNA marker to guess if they are. Otherwise, they have no right to return law
12. yes thomas you are a jew.
mira ,   bersheva   (12.14.06)
13. #11
(12.14.06)
As far as the Naturei Karta are concerned, regardless of anything the DNA marker might show, the Israelis should still kick all of them the hell out.
14. A response to "Paul" from Austin
Kate ,   London, UK   (12.14.06)
"Israel is the burden of the Ashkenazim and the Sefaradim that were punked into going along with it. " Tell that to the six million Diaspora Jews who were murdered because the gentile nations of the world either collaborated in their murder, or, like the United States, didn't lift finger to prevent the Holocaust (yes, the U.S. entered the war, but that was only because she was bombed into it, and she fought in spite of and not because of the Jews). "They would only be treated like trash in Israel, anyway." You need help.
15. #8-Tomas, no-u r not a Jew
Ora   (12.14.06)
because genetic research is still very young and doesnt prove anything. there is NO way to be related to 1of the 4women(even that in itself is absurd)There are few ways a person can be a jew--sadly for u-finding some gene that supposedly relates u to somebody(unless u had a jewish mother) is not enough to declare yoself a jew.
16. YOU NEED THE JEWISH MARRIGE CONTRACT AND LINEAGE PROOF
BLOOD MEANS NOTHING   (12.14.06)
INBETWEEN THE BLOOD PARTICLES 500 YEARS OF XTIAN INTERMARRIGE. ARE YOU A JEW? IN NO WAY A JEW EVEN WITH YOUR SARCASM YOU DONT INTIMIDATE YOURSELF INTO THE HEAVENS OF JUDAISM. EITEHR CONVERT BY WAY OF ORTHODOX TORAH RABBIS WHICH TAKES APPROX 2 YRS OR BECOME A RIGHTOUS NONJEW BY WAY OF NOAHIDE LAWS LEARNED THROUGH AGAIN, A TORAH ORTHODOX RABBI.
17. Rev 2:9 and 3:9
Shiloh ,   Israel   (12.14.06)
Those who say they are Jews, and are not, behold I make them the synagogue of the Satan. Be very careful with these people!! The xtians want us either to believe in their pagan idol image jebus or something real bad will happen to us when he comes. Get a life all you wanna be's!!
18. To Paul from Austin
Lior ,   London   (12.14.06)
Yes, thank you, Kate, I, too, am getting a little tired of the Americans thinking they won the war single-handed and liberated all the camps as well. It's not just Fascists like David Irving who enjoy re-writing history, the tendency is alive and well on most American college campuses and goes home to Hollywood for Thanksgiving and Christmas. Well, California is a lovely place to live - if you're an orange. "Israel is the burden of the Ashkenazim and the Sefaradim that were punked into going along with it"? Go tell that to the Sephardim in Israel who have been treated abominably by the Ashkenazim and who had no-where else to go, for starters. And then tell it to the Ashkenazim, most of whose families were anihilated in the Shoa. What I cannot understand is a certain kind of American mentality that seems to think it has not only the G-d given right but the only wherewithall to decree right, left and ***hole centre, hither, thither and yon what other countries should be and what they should do. It is a phenomenon of both left and right: the right with simplistic, militarist overtones and the left with the sneering, condescension of the politically correct. With breadth of vision of one looking at life through a lavatory pan, you clearly have no conception of how these people would be treated in Israel any more than the rest of the world.
19. Well known
Bobb ,   Dallas, U.S.A.   (12.14.06)
As a conservative Jewish man in Texas, this story is well known in much of the southwest of the United States. The Reform community I grew up in saw it as a Mitzvah to embrace such people. Some of the more liberal even tried to steer them to truly convert. Such is the inhumanity of men that causes such situations as the article describes. Why would people "gossip" about not eating pork if we all lived by the spirit of our religion?
20. #17 That is an Excellent point.
Mark ,   USA   (12.14.06)
However there are genuine people who want to be Jewish. There are many who will do almost anything to convert Jews and fund aliyah.
21. For the right price, I will make aliyah!
Mark ,   USA   (12.14.06)
Will the Evangelicals pay for all Jews to return to Israel? Will Evangelicals pay Jews to convert to Christianity?
22. Jewish Culture vs Being Jewish
Michael ,   Toronto, Canada   (12.15.06)
They may have long distant links to Jewish ancestors, and practice some rituals remembered from them, but that doesn't make them Jews according to Halacha. The link was severed through many years of intermarriage and loss of their lineage of being born to Jewish mothers. If they want to become real Jews, then they can follow the process of conversion.
23. Quit bashing messianics
David ,   USA   (12.14.06)
They abide by Torah more than homosexuals, yet most of you welcome homosexuality in your streets from what I have read over the months. Most messianics I know abstain from Christmas (satrurnalia) and Easter (Ishtar/Tammuz) yet you call messianics pagan?! I can tell who is the real Jew (he who brings praise to G-d) and who is not (rainbow club)... Why can't you? Judge with righteous judgment.
24. #23 Messianics worship the devil 666
Mark ,   USA   (12.15.06)
They need to worship Ha-Shem. They are anti-Ha-Shem. Ban them.
25. #23 David
(12.15.06)
"Quit bashing messianics." Fine...when you quit bashing homosexuals.
26. Crypto-Jews in the US Southwest
Stanley Hordes ,   Albuquerque, NM, USA   (12.21.06)
I would like to respond to the article that appeared on your website about crypto-Judaism in New Mexico written by Associated Press reporter Matt Crenson, in which I, and my historical research, were prominently featured. In framing the debate among scholars with regard to the nature and extent of crypto-Judaism in the US Southwest, Mr. Crenson highlighted the work of one skeptical academic, whose conclusions supported his apparently preconceived notions, while ignoring the work of such scholars as anthropologists Seth Kunin, of the University of Durham (UK), and Schulamith Halevy, of Hebrew University, sociologist Tomás Atencio, of the University of New Mexico, and social psychologist Janet Jacobs, of the University of Colorado, all of whom have performed careful field work in New Mexico, have published extensively on the topic, and have developed conclusions in support of the presence of crypto-Jewish culture in the region. Mr. Crenson was informed as to the availability of these experts, and apparently chose not to consult them. With reference to Mr. Crenson’s treatment of DNA analysis, in which he cited the results of a study indicating that New Mexico genetically looked like Iberia, with no stronger presence of Jewish descendants here than in Spain and Portugal, I had related to Mr. Crenson that I felt that this finding in no way contradicted my earlier findings indicating the historical presence of descendants of crypto-Jews among the early Spanish settlers. I indicated that I had no idea how many such descendants arrived in the 16th and 17th centuries, and I by no means ever claimed the number to represent a substantial percentage of the whole. More importantly, during our interview, I told Mr. Crenson that I was far more impressed with the results of medical genetics than the comparatively more basic Y-chromosome DNA work. Over the past decade or so, physicians and geneticists have discovered certain genetic diseases among Hispanic populations, diseases that appear with greater frequency among Jews. Pemphigus Vulgaris, for example, is a rare dermatological disease that strikes Jewish people in greater numbers than the general population. Physicians found an unusually high number of New Mexico Hispanic patients with this malady, relative to the total number of Hispanics in the state. Further, they found that certain of these patients demonstrated the identical genome and protein sequencing as Jewish patients with this disease. I pointed this out to Mr. Crenson. He chose not to include it in his story. The topic of crypto-Judaism is a complex one, and not easily given to superficial analysis. It is unfortunate that Mr. Crenson missed a golden opportunity to produce an objective and enlightening article on a fascinating aspect of the history of the US Southwest. Thank you for the opportunity to offer comment. Sincerely, Stanley M. Hordes, Ph.D. Albuquerque, NM
27. It's not my test.
c from so.cal ,   socal   (12.27.06)
I was tested at family tree dna because I wanted to find out my origins. They told me I matched with jewish guys from romania and slovakia haplogroup J1 I didn't choose that. I wish they would have said you match with the british. Look at all this drama who's a jew who is not what makes any of you a judge anyway. It's the jewish Geneticists telling us that I didn't ask for it. I'm happy being a hispanic. If my family had problems with being a jew before so be it things are the way they are for a reason . I'm not afraid I've served in iraq twice i've been all around the world including israel. I had 3 women propose to me in tel aviv I went salsa dancing they love hispanics.The women just wanted to know if I was circumcised not if I was jewish so that's what getting treated like trash is huh. Well thank you people that are being supportive but for ones that just judge maybe there is a reason my people converted from judaism because of people like you.
28. Crypto Jews
Jaime ,   Houston, Texas USA   (09.29.08)
Now there is more evidence to support Mr. Hordes. There is DNA evidence showing a link between Central and Eastern European Jewish heritage and the crypto Jews of New Mexico. According to an article in the Smithsonian journal a genetic link has been discovered. Both communities share a rare cancer-causing gene. Just fyi.
29. Crypto Jews
Joseph ,   Gerrardstown, WV   (02.16.10)
Hereditary Breast Cancer is also exceptionally high in Hispanic Patients as it is in Jewish populations. This is significant in these levels are low in native indian and europeans. Joseph De Soto M.D., Ph.D., F.A.I.C,
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