Opinion  Others
Have we not learned a thing?
Amos Oz
Published: 19.12.06, 18:46
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31. Seems that it is Amos Oz who has not learned anything
Sam Levi ,   Yaffo, Israel   (12.20.06)
Like that following the brilliant advice that he and his kind have preached to us for decades has led us down a path of violence, Terrorism and aggression against our towns and cities. What part of his mind fails to comprehend that forking over our land to Hamas, Hezbollah and their backers in Syria and Iran will never bring us peace or security. In fact, it has brought us just the opposite of that.
32. Amos Oz is a hit in Germany as (17) points out, I wonder why
Edith ,   The Netherlands   (12.20.06)
Certainly explains why he is only able to sell his books over there. It takes one to know one it would seem.
33. #20, LOL@'actual quote' - I quoted from the New York Times
Sherry Weinstein ,   Israel   (12.20.06)
What you did, is simply give YOUR own interpretation of what he said. There is a huge difference between quoting someone and giving your own personal interpretation of what was said.
34. Mossad Does not Agree
Gerry ,   OC, CA   (12.20.06)
Amos, Mier Degan from the MOssad does not agree with you about Syria
35. #12 the only thing Oz learned from Jewish history
Ilan ,   Ariel   (12.20.06)
Was how to ape the anti-semites. That is the hallmark of the Israeli secular left and their only policy of record.
36. Why do so many Israeli's live in a cloud of dillusionment?
j ,   jerusalem, israel   (12.20.06)
Only a complete idiot would believe Assad. The man is getting ready for war Amos! How long have you lived here? Wake up idiot!
37. #35, How right you are!
Sherry Weinstein ,   Israel   (12.20.06)
38. Amos - a bluff is a bluff... so...
JPS ,   Efrat   (12.20.06)
...let's call their bluff. I want you to hold a press conference this week and tell Assad that you believe him. Then call on Assad to show the Israelis his true desire for peace - he should arrange for the International Red Crescent to visit the 2 Israeli soldiers held by Hezbollah to ascertain their health. See, just a small little gesture like that will show the entire world that Syria respects international law (which Hezbollah is violating by refusing to allow the Red Cross/Crescent to visit the soldiers). The rest of us aren't holding our breath, because we've played poker with this guy before. Until he shows us otherwise, he's full of it...
39. At least Oz has not learned a thing
Igor ,   Germany   (12.20.06)
After the 1991 Gulf War, the Palestinians, who had had sided with Iraq, were kicked out from oil-rich Gulf countries, which, in addition, stopped financing them. PLO was all but bankrupt. It would have ceased to exist had Israel not swallowed the hook and engaged in the "Peace Process" and the West stepped in with its multi-billion aid to the PLO. Fast forward 13 years later: Israel armed the Palestinians, only to be attacked by them. Israel vacated areas in Judea and Samaria, so they can be used as terrorist hideouts. Israel vacated south Lebanon and Gaza, only to receive rocket fire from there. Before the "Peace Process", no rockets were falling on Sderot or Haifa, and terror attacks were extremely rare. Amos, since you seem to like body counting, consider that in the 7 years of "Peace Process" BEFORE(!) the 2nd Intifada, more Israelis have fallen victim to terror than in twice that time before the "Peace Process" started. If you add the Intifada victims, they offset even the casualties of the 6-day-war. and approach your numbers of 1973. Really, haven't you learned a thing? I agree with #38: If Assad is serious about peace, he can send a signal which would not cost him anything and which would show that he respects international law and humanitarian norms.
40. Reply # 24
Secular Sabra ,   Israel   (12.20.06)
LMAO. "" the small minority of far left secular progressives who are currently running the country. "" How can such a small minority be running the country then ??? It's one vote each yah know ;) And you are trying to teach me about Democracy :o) Once those Jews move here huh ? They sure are taking their sweet time coming . It's much easier to give their opinions in talkbacks than to even try over here .... all mouth and no action .
41. Oz was proOslo, proItnatkut so who is he to give "Eitzes"??
Moshe ,   Ramat Gan   (12.20.06)
42. Secular sabra is profoundly correct! We must appease them!
Neville Chamberlain ,   London UK   (12.20.06)
43. Peace with Syria?
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (12.20.06)
This is all so simple. Assad has been told by Ahmadinejad to offer Israel a peace deal that is not expected to be accepted and which nobody in their right mind can or will accept, the rejection of which will, of course, serve as an excuse for war, unless you give up the Golan. In that case, something else will be conjured up. Assad may not relish having downtown Damascus look like Beirut, but he made a deal with the devil and the devil now wants his due. I bet the poor guy can't go to the bathroom without being watched from all directions. Assad will lose either way he goes, and I bet, he knows it.
44. edith netherland
hans ,   stuttgart germany   (12.20.06)
edith you are absolutly right,in the german media israelis like avnery,felicia langer, moshe zimmermann,avi primor and more are used here by people called themselves critics. but there aim is just to harm israel.
45. Balanced Moderation
BP EXT   (12.20.06)
In the shadow of the Iranian plots, it is difficult to find moderate leaders in any governments. Moderation is the long term goal. Oz is right. The enemies of humanities can be found on both sides, in the many worldwide Jewish and Muslim clubs. Israel has got its share of super-haters. Iran has. Palestine has.
46. Answer to j in Jerusalem -Israelis think its their own fault
(12.20.06)
OH, they know that Assad is getting ready for war, just like they know that the Palestinians are trying to kill them. Their thinking is: "No normal person would try to kill his neigbors just for the sake of killing them; therefore, since the Palestinians are normal people, we Israelis must have done something really bad to them for them to want to kill us and so we mst do whatever they want in order to make ammends
47. Reality check Israel
david ,   redmond Oregon, USA   (12.20.06)
Esau has made it clear that he will not rest until he drives Jacob into the sea. Never surrender even one inch of Israeli land.
48. Mr. Oz and Syria
Ricardo Kolbe ,   Cologne; Germ-Eur   (12.21.06)
Mr. Oz is a well respected person in Germany, however does he understand Israeli Foreign Policy? Israel is not really independent since they receive approx. 3 billion dollars from US tax payers each year and that has a price; if their interests cross US interests then there is no chance and Mr. Olmert MK and any other Isr. politician has to say: "The time is not ripe for negotiations with Syria" - But that might change, there is always hope for those who want peace.
49. Oy va voy
Goy ,   Kyriat Shemona   (12.21.06)
It is so terribly sad that everyone just continues this ridiculous fight online. Everyone has their own thing to say, which someone else responds to oh so cleverly? At what point does it become people actually dying and suffering for all the bullshit opinions that you people write in this very space? It's all crap. And do you know what, you should all be ashamed of yourselves. Maybe Amos Oz is right in beliveing that Israel should distance itself from Bush, maybe he's not. But enough already with the Self hating jew shit! Can a fella not express an opinion? And an opinion that seems more inclined towards peace than anything else mentioned above. The state of israel is not exactly at peace right now, and nor has it ever really been. What on earth is wrong with talking, and why is it weak? I was in Kyriat Shemona during the last war, which was a total waste of time and life. I saw people behave in amazing ways, and I saw some stuff I never want to see again. And I read so much crap on this very web site from people who simply weren't here. People who find it so easy to write, and not do. I may be a goy. but, you know, i kinda like this place. Please don't let me feel that this is the way forward, and what you all want... And Proud Father, where are you?
50. I am ashamed of myself Mr. "Goy" but please hear me out
Daniel ,   Formerly Israel   (12.21.06)
I don't even live in Israel any more, and all I can do to try to save it is to change the opinions of people like you who do live there. But I am only eigteen with just a few hunderd dollars to my name. Some day I hope to be rich and influential enough to do something more for Israel. In fact I would go to Israel and join the IDF today if doing so wouldn't be a waste of time. I just hope that those people who do live in Israel, like yourself, will keep it alive long enough for me to come back and do something more than just sit at this computer. But fr now let's get back to what you said about talking. The last war in Lebanon, which as you said absolutely correctly, was a waste of life, was the result of talking. In 1982 Israel was in control of most of Lebanon and it could have forced the Syrians out, disbanded, Hezbullah, and then withdrew with just maybe a military base in Lebanon (placed there with the consent of a new friendly and democratically elected Lebanese government) to ensure our security. But that would have taken time, pressure, and perhaps a few lives. So instead Isael chose to talk. And it talked wihile its soldiers died in Lebanon and then it withdrew, leaving thousands of SLA members who fought along side it to be slaughtered by Hezbullah. And also leading to this pointless war. And finally the somer's war was only made pointless because again instead of going on and destroying Hezbullah Israel decided to talk. Sure more soldiers might have died if we had finished the job (although it is just as likely that fewer would have died if hey were given permission to occupy Southern Lebanon instead of wandering around without water or ammunition) but at least they would have died for something! Instead they and all the civilians who lost their lives in Israel and in Lebanon died for nothing. All because Olmert Peretz and Livini decided to talk!
51. The best thing you can do, Daniel #50
JPS ,   Efrat   (12.21.06)
The shameful thing is that you appear to be mis-informed. The best thing you can do f is to stay in school and learn history. You write: "In 1982 Israel was in control of most of Lebanon and it could have forced the Syrians out, disbanded, Hezbullah" However: -Israel was never in control of most of Lebanon, only the southern area up to Beirut. -Forcing the Syrians out would have widened the war and caused even more casualties. -Hezbollah did not exist in 1982. It didn't officially declare itself until 1985. You don't have to be rich to be influential (it helps, of course), but you damn well better be informed.
52. Mike of Ra'anana # 24
charles ,   petach tikva   (12.21.06)
A small minority of far left secular progressives who ar running this country . You wrote . Tell me is Lieberman a far left man ? he is minister in Israel's governement . Who are all those far left people ? Tell me , i want to know .
53. Refrain from giving advice.
FO ,   Belgium   (12.21.06)
March 17, 2000 you wrote in Haaretz: "the minute we leave South Lebanon, we will have to erase the word Hizbollah from our vocabulary". If indeed you wrote these words, you should refrain from giving more advice. On the contrary you should review your historical knowledge. Go back to 1922 and you will "discover" the on the 24 of July of said year the League of Nations voted unanimously a resolution (probably the most important document of the 20th century concerning Zionism, but "disapeared" from history books, and why?) a road map for the British concerning their mandate on Palestine and their involvement in implimenting the Jewish National Home. The border of Palestine as drawn by the League, included the Golan Heights. The British, breaching ariticle 5 of the League's resolutions, handed the Golan to France, the Mandatory of Syria. If not this breach, even the partition plan by UN in 1947, would have included the Golan to the Jewish State. So during the 6 days war, the Golan Heights went back in Israeli hands in legal accordance with the resolutions of the League of Nations. Do not induce the public in error: Sinai was Egyptian due to an international accepted border dated from the beginning of the 20th century. More, beside the border with Egypt, Israel has no other borders, but cease-fire lines, a tremendous difference, isn't it?
54. To: Cameron #19 You've got it wrong
David ,   Karmiel, Israe;   (12.21.06)
Israel is the only friend that the USA has got. Just watch the news channels, read the papers and listen to the people. You are not quite the “Top of the Pops”. As for the GIFT you mention, it is not a gift but rental, as General "Stormin" Norman said, for the biggest and most stable aircraft carrier in the world. Where else are your forces welcome? Where else in the Middle East, except in Haifa Port, is your Sixth Fleet safe? Cameron, as for the US's friendship, well after the Bush Blair sellout in August (our guys Eldad and Udi (let’s not forget Gilad) are still being held captive and Lebanon is in a shambles again) we are sure of only one thing: Israel has no friends but remember that the oil will run out but Israeli Hi-Tec won't and if you look around you will be surprised how our knowledge keeps you safe. The USA appeases the Arabs for two reasons – oli and the fact they own most of the US, even your ports. To the Editor: I hope you publish this talkback this time or is it against Ynet's policy to criticize the USA?
55. being a great writer does not convey political infallibility
Ruth ,   Beer Sheva, IL   (12.21.06)
Amos, I really admire your books. You are a great writer. Please do not assume that this gives you any special angle on Israeli politics. I am sure you care deeply for Israel, so do I. You are entitled to your opinion but it is in no way more profound or relevant than my opinion, which is the opposite: Syria's offer is deeply insincere, they just want the international legitimiation and more time to supply arms to Hisbollah and prepare for war. Nothing to be gained by giving it to them!
56. Have we learned from Intifada ?
David Mimoun   (12.21.06)
This article has been translated in the French "Le Monde" columns, well known for its anti-Israel stances ... Living in diaspora it's hard to give lessons to Israelis, but from here Assad moves looks like he wants to do like the Palestinians before Intifada II launch ; some negociations that fails, opening the door to a military agression ...
57. #2 You're either not a Sabra or not in Israel
AK   (12.21.06)
Your English is too good, for one. And if you voted in Israel, you have nothing to brag about -- Olmert and his entire administration are incompetent losers.
58. #21 Patrick, Israelis gave peace a chance
AK   (12.21.06)
many times. The risk they took in Oslo has been causing many casualties among Israelis ever since and has a potential to ultimately destroy Israel. No more risks for peace – one costly gamble was more than enough and one would expect influential Israelis to learn from their mistakes by now. BTW, to understand the significance of the Golan Height you must really see it -- you can see from Golan almost half of Israel below you, you can shoot down on towns, farms, communities, and Syrians had done that. Taking Golan took many lives in 1968 – Syrian fortifications were built into basalt rocks and bombing wouldn't do the job. You simply do not trade such military asset for uncertain and temporary peace. Besides, Syria has no superior claim to Golan than Israel -- originally Golan was a part of the Palestinian Mandate earmarked for the Jewish homeland. British simple ceded that land to France, who created Syria, and that's how Syria came to 'own' Golan -- an indirect, and unlawful gift from Britain of what was not theirs to give.
59. Assad's plea
ussishkin ,   London UK   (12.21.06)
There is no question that Assad wants the Golan back. But there's more for Israel to gain simply from saying "yes let's meet" and than "no!" The current Israeli status quo is in fact an impasse which does Israel' s self interests absolutely no good at all. Olmert has his self interests too - survival in power. What does he -and we- lose by meeting the Syrians? We need their pressure on Hamas and Hezbullah. We need to ensure that Syria is neutral and not an enemy waiting to strike. Diplomacy can in fact achieve far more than war and we need to show we are as strong in diplomacy as we like to suggest we are in war.
60. David America is doing more to protect Israel than Israel is
Daniel ,   Formerly Israel   (12.21.06)
For example, as Olmert properly states, Bush is the only thing preventing him from negotiating with Assad and possibly giving him back the Golan for nothing. And during the Lebanon war America shielded us for several weeks against world opinion, and it isn't America's fault that Israel doesn't understand that conquest is the only way to win a war or that Israel's "Defense minister" is a peacenick and a Union leader. They didn't expect that when Peretz said he was going to strike in response to agression against Israel that he was using the other definition of "strike": To do absoluttely nothing!
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