Dr. You are right!

The present system is inherently flawed and open to abuse. Just as a simple example, there are thousands of people in developing countries adopting Judaism. howver, their desire to convert poses a serious problem for both the secular israeli establishment and the religious. For the secular leadership it boils down to the cost of absorbing these converts and this ties the hands of the rabbinate, since if it were to recognise or even assist these converts to become jews by halacha, then the state would have an obligation to absorb them. So even if these converts are genuine the rabbinate in israel would find it hard to recognise this. Now if there isn''t an automatic right of return. the sincerity of converts from developing and muslim countries can be better assessed and the religious authorities can help them convert without any "secular" budgetry concerns of absorption in israel or any worries of their sincerity. Furthermore, it is inherently a fairer system since all overseas converts (including orthodox) must meet the same criteria, regardles of country of origin. That said western converts will still have an advantage, simply b'cos there are larger and more established halachic jewish communities in western nations than in developing ones. But at least this is the result of the "hand" of divine providence rather than the result of very human "secular" considerations. Before criticising this law bear in mind that there are thousands of potential converts from poor countries who are ignored, b'cos of concerns that they are simply seeking a "right of return". Remove the automatic right and at least they can fulfill their dreams to be halachic jews in their own countries, and immigrate to israel under civil laws, if they qualify or if israel "needs" them to boost aliyah.

You sir are way too uptight. What makes you think you are so righteous?? Let Hashem figure this one out.

as I convert I can confirm that this proposal is like a slap in the face of - guess what - one of israel's chief rabbi's in person. after having given up my previous religion, culture, land, friends and family and so on, having gone through the hardships the conversion process involves, such a thing it's the last geirim need. so chief rabbi or not - shame on the person who unthoughtfully came up with this humiliating proposal. moshe rabbeinu wasn't allowed to enter the land of israel because he made a "small" mistake - why? because he was a leader, the example. so if I were the chief rabbi, I would think again, to say the least. on personal level, it would have also been much harder - if not impossible - to start my life again here in israel without the benefits olim are entitled to. And who is going to make aliyah, leave everything behind, if you're not even sure that in the end they will accept you?? One thing is sure - if the rabbinate wants to get more critics than it already has - this is the way to do it. good job guys... hopefully moshiach will have more brains - may he come soon!! I know I sound a bit frustrated - that's why I want to stay anonymous ;-)

There is a religious obligation to avoid calling attention to the convert's status Hey! Doc! I thought your credentials are psych not rabbinics. Or you did smicha at GWU? I think your statement pertains to expo facto not ante facto.

Orthodox Judaism is looking less like a religion and more like a cult.A bizaare cult of racial "purity" and bloodlines.A hate filled intolerant clan of ritual and rule overriding belief and love of God. If Israel does not strip these medieval fanatics of their religious monopoly I fear that they will destroy the country.

I THINK ISRAEL IS A GREAT COUNTRY, BUT THE EXTREMS RELIGIUS PARTYS ARE REALLY DENGERAUS

- Strip the Rabbinate of all power so that it operates with the same authority as other Batei Din, say in USA, South Africa, Canada, Britain, etc. - Enough of having 2 chief rabbis (one Ashkenazi, one Sefardi). This is divisive. We are all Jews no matter what. If you want, then alternate the term of the Chief Rabbi so one term he is Ashkenazi and the next term Sefardi. (I would choose Rabbi Shlomo Riskin as the new Chief Rabbi). - Change the Law of Return so that it only applies to someone who has at least one HALACHICALY Jewish parent. - The new Rabbinate should be forced to recognise the decisions and authority of other Batei Din and Orthodox Rabbis outside Israel, regarding births, deaths, marriage, divorce and conversion.

If Amar was serious, then he knows a lot less about Judaism than Renee Garfinkel does. Amar has to return to yeshiva for a long time before again calling himself 'rabbi'. Anyway, I motivate any convert to join the Ashkenazi Chareidi world. Stay away from the Amar-type Sefardim. Many of them are pure evil regarding converts. They *hate* converts. The Syrians are public about it, but the others just hide it. Spare yourself the experience and join the Ashkenazi chareidi world, where converts are treated quite differently (though of course not when it comes to shidduchim, but that's a well known issue and one which will never be solved).

Bloodlines have always been present in Judaism, and I don't see it as a negative thing. Whether it be to determine whether you are a priest, or what tribe of Israel you are of, your must look to your bloodline.

Stop this. We need all the members we can get. So what if they benefit materially, the rest of us will benefit from them materially and in all other ways. The rule should be that anyone who publicly states he is a Jew, is a Jew! That would end Israel's population dilemma immediately.

SARCASM TO YNET BECAUSE LATELY YNET POSTS ALL THE XTIANS TELLING JEWS HOW TO ACT.. BUT YNET DOESNT POST MY REPLIES TO THOSE XTIANS.. OH YEAH ABOUT THE CONVERTS? CONVERTS? BY WHO FROM WHAT FOR WHAT WHEN WHY WHERE? REFORM? CONNSERVATIVE CONVERTS??? JUST ANOTHER BRANCH OF XTIAN.. THATS NOT TORAH JEWISH.

Israel is not totally unique in its problem of "religious" conversion as a path to acquiring national identity. As everyone comes to appreciate sooner or later the cover on the book and especially the film trailer often have little to do with the contents.

In his desperation, this move is another monumental mistake, that is again a broadcast to the world that the Chief Rabbinate and the demagogues supporting it are a complete mockery, empty of any decency and morality, corrupt and incompetent to the core. The obvious shamelessness of this breach in Torah tradition is further evidence of the ineptness and bufoonery of AMAR and his henchmen. Does he seriously believe that the world cannot see his insensitivity, callousness SKULLDUGGERY and HERESY ? Judged by their own standards the Orthodox and Ultra-orthodox who stand by this leader are guilty of the ultimate hypocracy and moral bankruptcy, and the world sees it all. To stigmatize converts, set them apart, and to subject them to humiliation is TO DRAG JUDAISM DOWN TO THE FILTHY GUTTER ! AMARS decrees are the decrees of a tyrant, and are to be ignored by all JEWS everywhere. It should be obvioust to Rabbi AMAR and to world Jewry that his legacy is to have been THE ONE TO HAVE TWISTED THE KNIFE IN THE GUT OF EVERY JEW !!! When AMAR falls from his high perch of grandeur and political favor, it will be far and hard, for he has repudiated every opportunity for universal Jewish solidarity, good judgement and common human decency. I doubt that many will shed a tear when Amar comes tumbling down, simply because he refused to help himself when authentic piety and proper judgement would have been the simple remedy.

RABBI AMAR should be depicted SITTING ON THE GOLDEN CALF !!!

It is because of things like this that I do not plan to make aliyah in the forseeable future. I only hope that things will change such that my grandchildren will one day feel that Israel can be their true home, in all senses, not just the spiritual home of the Jew (even the convert).

I agree with this law, too. Aliah is for people who were exiled from Israel. Converts were not exiled from here, and they can only immigrate here, not make aliah, i.e. return to the place from which their ancestors were exiled.

to begin with

B"H There are integration concerns with someone who is not trained properly to integrate into Jewish society in Israel. In a sense this issue affects not just converts but also those who are not Israeli. In the United States, there is a two step process. The first is residency (resident-Alien) and the second is citizenship. Those alienated from society formally have that status until they are integratable in at which point they can apply for citizenship. I suppose it is a great blessing that United States companies hire immigrants from abroad under various visas to work here, not just as citizens. I think if Israel sponsored more programs where private companies can hire Jews and not demand citizenship right away, that it would be a much greater benefit. As it stands now, private business often does not have the means to take the additional risk. This is where I see the greatest opportunity for payoff for Israel in its interaction with the world.

How long do you think we'll love you if all you can do is spit on us. Tell you what. We'll give up on Israel if you never set foot here. Now take your self righteous racial purity nonsense and shove it.

no need to insult true converts - in fact it is forbidden. it is clear that conservative 'homosexual rabbis' may be loved by G-d (they are) but they do not accept 613 mitzvot, and cannot supervise a process where a convert accepts 613 mitzvot. it is WRONG that they are lumping true converts with well-meaning individuals (and often very good people) who are just not jewish - doesnt mean that conservative and reform 'converts' and not good people.

I converted to Judaism, married a Jew, bring up several Jewish kids, who will no doubt serve in the army, we are observant too. I went through many hardships during my conversion process and making aliyah so I fully sympathise with other converts wishing to make aliya. I also feel that being left out of the law of return is a slap in the face. It should be the opposite. COnverts should be offered more oleh rights because of their hardship, lack of family, etc. Don't forget we cut off from our past, including religion, friends, some of us are families who were not happy with our conversion. Those among us who chose to make aliya had the additional difficulties of having to adapt to a different lifestyle and mentality. Don't forget also that we who came from N.A. gave up on a much higher standard of living. I find that most Israelis are most accepting to converts, in my experience in any case. I feel hurt that some rabbis are considering cutting our right of return. I feel that we are just as deserving as any other Jew, if not more. Note how praiseworthy everyone is of Ruth the moabitess for having left her family, people and land to follow Naomi to Naomi's land, people, and family. I've never heard a critical comment concerning Ruth. Have a heart, please, rabbis! It's not easy to be a convert. Most of us have a lot of baggage to carry. We've nothing and no one besides Israel and our new family.

Your interpretation of Shalom Bayit is not accurate. It does not mean tolerance of abuse. What kind of word-twisting do you profess to be expert at? And as far as the "stigmatization" and "humiliation" that you refer to, that is also inaccurate. Actually, it is incorrect altogether. The rabbinate is charged with making sure that these converts are true converts, who had a KOSHER conversion - nothing wrong with that. Just because you likely subscribe to the Reform brand of what you believe is still Judaism does not mean you can label this as you wish. As someone with a post-graduate education, you should be familiar with what those in the secular world refer to as: RESEARCH. You ought to check your facts before you attempt to make judgements and false accusations - whether it is against the religious community, the secular community or anyone for that matter. I must therefore conclude that this article is an unprofessional attempt to discredit the religious - WHAT A SURPRISE to find this on Ynet! (joke)

I am the most right=wing Jew upon this Earth, and I am all for Jews being proud of who they are and holding on to their identity, but frankly people like you make me ashamed of my beliefs. What right do you have to deny entry to Israel to those who have chosen to be your friends and share in your belief. we JEws have few friends left in this world, and the converts, who are usually much more keen on defending Israel than many who were born Jews (go to www.knesset.gov.il for a list of some of those) and they may be the only thing keeping us alive. And even if we were the most powerful and secure race/religion on Earth we should still, out of good will and sheer decency accept with open arms those share our values and ideals whether they convert or not, and if they do convert so muc the better. And in case you are so bigoted that you are beyond such trifles as decency and good-will and are interested only in the well-fare of the Jews, consider that every single religion that has grown powerful throughout history: Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, have lal done so by ubsorbing millions of converts (willing and forced) and without converts Judaism cannot prosper.

The religious don't need anyone to discredit them. They're discrediting themselves everyday.

Boy that's a new one. Only females convert, or only female converts feel deminished. Trust a psychologist to get the political correctness all wrong for the sake of politiacal correctness. Try "he or she". It is inclusive of the reality we live in.

DON'T LISTEN TO A MORON LIKE DR. GARFINKEL. SHE KNOWS NOT WHAT SHE YAPS ABOUT. SHE IS ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS ABOUT THIS SUBJECT AND YOU GUYS ARE FOOLS FOR RESPONDING IN AGREEANCE WITH HER. YOU OUGHT TO BE SMARTER THAN THAT AND READ UP ON THE SUBJECT - CHECK RELIGIOUS TEXTS AND YOU'LL SEE HOW INVALID HER WORDS ARE. CHECK THE LATEST INFO ON THE RABBINATE AND WHAT THEY ARE ACTUALLY TRYING TO DO AND YOU'LL SEE THAT SHE IS JUST TRYING TO RILE PEOPLE UP WITH HER LIES.