Jewish Scene
How much would you pay for a groom?
Chaim Levinson
Published: 14.01.07, 20:19
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1. spirituality ???
Michael ,   Haifa   (01.14.07)
in the spiritual world of the haredim, everyone has his price
2. This is ludicrous
J K ,   NYC, USA   (01.14.07)
Its nice if they want to study Torah, but extorting the other side to have them pay for everything and going so far as to publish lists for the going rate? Utter nonsense. There were plenty of great Torah scholars who in addition to being brilliant and lights of the generation werent too proud to be craftsmen or some other profession. In other words, THEY WORKED. If the ultra-orthodox respect these rabayim so much for the examples they set, they should take not only the Torah lessons, but the lessons on earning a living and supporting themselves. This system is nuts. No wonder people look at the more orthodox and wonder Ist der gantzer velt meshuggah. And no, I am not secular or a leftist.
3. fear of G-d is complimented by work...
Alexander ,   Italy   (01.14.07)
just wanted to clarify that all the observant Jews I know are very G-d fearing and work to make a living... If someone can afford to just learn and he has the head for it, great, but if not - he needs to make a living like everyone else, as well as be a G-d fearing Jew. Jewish laws are also about how to make a kosher living, which is no less a mitzvah then learning, when this work provides one with the ability to support oneself, family, and others....
4. I found a Chatan for my Daughter Menuvele on e bay
Mr Ferd- Gannef ,   Windsor ,England   (01.14.07)
5. Ultra orthodox pay for a groom
robin ,   Israel   (01.14.07)
Boy does the future Ultraorthodox grooms have it made, they don't work ,get a free house and furniture when they marry if they are a good yeshevia boy. So where does the money that the brides family must layout come from? How can the parents afford to have so many children?
6. grooms
charles ,   petach tikva   (01.14.07)
and when will they sell their sons at public auctions ?
7. grooms
charles ,   petach tikva   (01.14.07)
Sold to the highest offer ?
8. go work
tasc   (01.15.07)
go get some job! what kind of freaks leaving for parents money!
9. Grooms who demand a ransome are "high quality"??
Little Miss Muffett ,   Sitting on a Tuffett   (01.15.07)
If these parents really cared about their daughters, they'd be more concerned about marrying them off to a man who loves them instead of to a man who makes material demands.
10. the groom has to be good looking and sexy, too.
debra ,   usa   (01.15.07)
or zero money.
11. Ynet takes a certain demented pleasure in roasting the
Al   (01.15.07)
religious community.If you guys were here in Canada you would be charged with incitement against a visual monirity. Shame on you.You simply confirm that which we all know. Ynet is a Rag.
12. What Price A Groom?
Plaintalk ,   Brooklyn, NY   (01.15.07)
To those bloggers who are upset about this article, they should not try to impose their values on a portion of the Orthodox community. There are those within the Orthodox community who have educated their daughters to believe that the best husband is a full-time learner. Every Beit Yaakov principal would love to know that one of his graduates married the future Gadol Ha-dor. For these girls and their families, this is the price that they are willing to pay, and most of them believe it in all sincerity. Not everyone in the Orthodox community feels this way. For example, the German Jews have always followed the teachings of Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch, who posited the credo of Torah Im Derech Eretz (study of Torah together with earning an income). So for those of you who are bent out of shape, it's not your battle to fight. We should collectively work on finding common ground, rather than being critical of things that really don't concern you.
13. grooms
sanity ,   usa   (01.15.07)
jewish grooms are not worth it! Ladies wake up and smell the coffee. Your children are jewish no matter who the father is. Marry non jewish and save a bundle as well as all of the disgusting attitudes that goes along with marrying jewish men.
14. Thank G-D, not by Chabad Chassidim
Chana ,   Canada   (01.15.07)
Thank G-D this is not the situation in Chabad. This is not the situation by all Chassidim. It is indeed a very sad situation indeed when someone will marry off their child "to the highest bidder". What happens to a lovely girl who's family is not capable of paying these sums? And, while Torah knowledge is extremely important, what about a young man's personality, history of good deeds, his 'middot', his love and caring for his fellow Jew? Are these unimportant in a marriage and in life??? Surely, almost all these young men can, after a year of learning after marriage, work to support their families-at least for a good part of the day. Except in unique situations, there is no excuse for the in-laws to have to break themselves to support the couple, or for a wife to have to carry the full responsibility of both carrying children, giving birth to them, raising them, AND working to feed her family and pay for the bills. I am aware that there are many women who have been taught to consider such a life an honour, and may even sincerely not feel it a burden, but what does this teach their husbands? Responsibility needs to be shared in a marriage. If someone is really determined to learn Torah, they will find the time and means to do it AND can still find a way to earn a living. It is important to note that most people who behave in this way are not acting maliciously, but are simply following what is the custom in their community. It is what they think is acceptable. Change must come from the heads of the yeshivas and the communities. To end off: People can have double standards:They may belittle something in the religious community, but when they see something in the outside it becomes 'interesting and special'. For example, many who may belittle the situation spoken about in this article may praise the lives of those 'individuals' who sit atop a mountain in the Far East or elsewhere, accepting and expecting monetary and bodily pleasures from their 'followers'. etc Let's not be hypocritical in our criticism.
15. Grooms
Ken ,   USA   (01.15.07)
It is disgusting that these societal leaches demand payment so that they can sit and "study" without helping build a better world with employment. The Rambam got it right by having a day job as well as being a scholar. These boys are incapable of producing any benefit other than more children who will not be able to afford any basic living. The next generation will not have the lixury of parents who can afford or even work to pay for their children. I am an observant Jew who works and I am troubled by Schnorrrers who ask for money for this who also smoke and don't work but expect the charity when there are truly deserving people who get less as a result of these greedy people.
16. Available for 30,000 USD...
Daniel ,   Columbia, SC, USC   (01.15.07)
and I will work to pay for any other daughters' Chasans! I am currently in the IMBA program, and will be granted the IMBA degree and a Euro MBA from WU-Wien. Inquire at e-mail for more info.
17. #12 Plaintalk Brooklyn NY
Michael ,   Haifa   (01.15.07)
I have to agree with you about "not imposing my values on a portion of the Orthodox community. Of course, I would expect some mutuality insofar as the Orthodox community would do likewise and not tell me what to do and not do on shabbat, what I can and cannot eat, with whom I can marry and with what airline I choose to fly on seven days a week.
18. I got married for free
Rabbi Abraham Beltz   (01.15.07)
Too bad this article wasn't published 12 years ago, because I GOT MARRIED AND GOT NOTHING, even now I don't own a house (I rent), I studied in a very prestigious Yeshiva, and got the highest recomendations from then Rabbis there. Is this law retroactive? Maybe I still can get something, I'll be happy with a Shabbat in a nice hotel or something.
19. Chana #14
Frequent Flyer ,   Israel   (01.15.07)
Lubavitch do wonderful work. But their $25 dollar fee for a Shabbat meal in Hawaii ( there on a business trip) is a rip off. Awful food, and prepaid $50, but did not go back for the Shabbat morning meal. Could you tell them? This kind of thing really does leave a bad 'taste'. Thanks and tizkoo l'mitzvot.
20. #17
Ken ,   Tel Aviv   (01.15.07)
I AM orthodox, but no one tells me which airline to fly. Strange no? The treif crowd do hamper my style though, and quite a lot, by 'telling' me in so very many venues, 'you can't eat here, we're treif'. Never mind, I'M broadminded. Does narrow my choices of where I, and others can work too, tut, tut,these secular people forcing their rules on me....
21. Buy a Groom
Shalom   (01.15.07)
It IS an issue but of course YNet only shows one side; uses extreme examples and has its agenda firmly in place. Why do they always choose to demean a section of society?
RCA ,   USA   (01.15.07)
THEY HAVE INFLATED THEIR OWN PRESTEGE . This modern day Sanhedrin has created their own system within the state, to the exclusion of everyone else. Now they are complaining about the costs of what they have created ? GROOMS HAVE BECOME TOO EXPENSIVE ? It's almost comical. They have promoted greed as a prerequisite for marriage into the family. Has their tunnel vision not led them to lose sight of reality and the really important priorities in life ? That is , besides continueing their hegemony ? They have set up a pseudo-religious blue blood monarchy, a royalty system propped up by self-generated prestiege, where few work, few contribute to society, none serve to defend the country, are wealthy yet supported by state subsidization, and they make demands of everyone else to everyone elses inconvenience, with the appearance of thoughtless arrogance. If this happened in the US there would be civil war. No different than the corrupt priesthood of biblical times, racked by scandals, violent behaviors, and internal battles for power, they have lost the true spirit and meaning of Torah and have perverted it in modern times. When will the state of Israel "get real", see Israeli society for what it has become and purge these groups from the body politic in favor of self-supporting RELIGIOUS PARITY FOR ALL JEWS ? Don't they see the unhappiness that they are perpetuating for all Jews, including THE DIASPORA ? The State of Israel has elevated these groups as if they were some kind of NATIONAL PRESERVATION MUSEUM ON JUDAISM, as if Judaism in biblical times didn't actually evolve through time. Please don't get me wrong ! The Ultra- Orthodox and others have a legitimate right to exists and continue to do things the way that they see fit. This is important ! Just not at the expense of others in Israeli society. JEWS IN ISRAEL SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO PURSUE THEIR JEWISH DREAMS THE WAY THEY SEE FIT. And , at a low religious price ! The problem of grooms for Ultra-Orthodox families is a problem that should not even exist in Israel. It is a problem that exists due to imbalances in the body politic, through the elevation of one group above others, and the symptomatic divisions, factionalism, resentments and abuses that stem from this . Another thing. WHAT ABOUT LOVE ? Where does LOVE enter the picture? Should this not be of primary importance ? Are we still living in the middle ages where kings used marriage to broker power ? Have the Orthodox groups totally digressed to the point where they know THE COST OF EVERYTHING, BUT...THE VALUE OF NOTHING ?
23. hahahahaha!! Im not suprised at all.......
telavivit ,   telaviv   (01.15.07)
24. #19-u ungrateful,narrow minded man
mootzi ,   tlv   (01.15.07)
and the thought that somebody had to cook the meal for who knows how many ppl-to keep the plata on for all of that time-and the lights, and all the other surrounding expences-did u ever consider that? $25 is not worth a KOSHER shabat meal-and in HAWAI of all places...dude--u r delusional!!! Habad r totally SELF-supportive-they do not recieve ANY money from ANY org--whatever they raise is what they live off...yo puny $25 barely covers the minimum cost. Be a bit more graceful and greatful that there is a place where u could get a kosher meal on shabat!
25. #11 Incitement, how?
Dorothyf Friend ,   Tel Aviv   (01.15.07)
By telling an unpleasant truth.
26. #19 nutzy
Unedible food even $5 is a lot. In Thailand however it's both edible and very good, and worth the substantial donation we left nutzy, so, to sum up nutzy, food in Hawaii needs improvement, and charge double if nec. ok nutzy? Go back to your tree now.
27. 60 years to build...
Alex ,   Miami, FL USA   (01.15.07)
60 years ago, there were a handful of full-time students, and the status quo granted them draft exemption. Given that the Haganah and early IDF (and someone, until very recently) didn't give Hareidi men an opportunity to serve AND follow their views of halacha, they all hid in Yeshivot to avoid service that would require desecration of Jewish law. So now you have several generations of men that haven't worked because of a deal cut between the Zionists and Hareidi and a state of affairs that enforced it. Well, the zionist theory that the Hareidi would disappear in time (and all the Orthodox) was wrong, and you have this odd subculture. I say odd because Jewish law and tradition clearly holds that one should work and learn, and that room for professional students, where it exists, is for a few years. However, in the Hareidi world, it's become perpetual, which is a problem. We are now starting to see solutions, but it won't change overnight. Nahal Hareidi gives them an option of entering Israeli society without compromising Halacha. Give it time, and in a few generations, the perpetual students will be smaller and smaller. However, to be shocked with this system is a little silly. Bride's fathers paid a dowry for most of recorded history, and the modern "dating" form of finding a spouse is relatively new. The perpetual student problem stems from state policies that encouraged that behavior, and created this culture. Now the state policies encourage them to enter society and the economy, but cultures won't change overnight. Most of us do what our parents did in terms of working and values, and we tweak it when economic realities cause us to, and so will our young Yeshiva students, but it takes time to break the mold.
28. The far East...
Meir ,   Bklyn, NY   (01.15.07)
Chana, Those sitting atop mountains are not demanding hundreds of thousands of dollars! They're doing it "l'shma."
29. Your just jealous.
don't ask why ,   columbia   (01.15.07)
Ah to be young and in love.Stress won't kill you right away.Enjoy the fruits of our labor.When G_d gives us real blessings like children you will forget all about it because after all some arab could come take it all away.This guy is just being cheap his daughters happiness should be more than his own.
30. What do they offer then...
Reb Inyaki ,   Bilbao, Basque   (01.15.07)
for a top Oxbridge-Imperial graduate, 1.97 hight, 22 years old with both surenames that only the Rothschilds and Montagues can compete?
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