Editor: Mohammad cartoons provoked vital debate
Published: 18.01.07, 00:27
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1. caricatures made an existing reality visible
Jono ,   Oz   (01.18.07)
and still there are people who do not see it.
2. What's to debate?
Ryan ,   Calgary, Canada   (01.18.07)
If muslims don't like the western culture, stay in their homeland. Nothing to debate. You don't like caricatures in Danish newspapers, don't buy them. You don't like american tv, don't watch it. Why is it they come to these countries? For a better life? Why do they attempt to change these countries then? They are allowed to practice there religion, jokes are our way of life, if you don't like it go home and read your local newspaper. You'll find lots of funnies regarding jews and christrians. Hypocrits
3. To #2
Casey ,   Germany   (01.18.07)
Did you remember when Iran held a hoocaust confernce, how jews were so mad, how they couldn't get over with it. lots of pressure from western conutries???? remeber thoses events. Is it possible for you to ignore what happen in Tahran, when the holocaust confernce was held, I bet it's difficult to ignore.....same with muslim, it's there prophet, they loved it so western should resoect other religion too.
4. #3: Comparing violence and intimidation w/ peaceful protest
Wow... One is democratic, the other is fascist, yet you fail to differentiate between the two.
5. My talkback
Libneniyyeh ,   Lebanon   (01.18.07)
was blocked
6. #3 yuo an idiot
jerome ,   basalt, co   (01.18.07)
are you a nazi with that ignorant view or just stupid?!?! you compare the denial confrence in Iran from pure evil and hate of 6 million jews that where exterminated, that Jews being upset to some crazy Muslims killing destroying and bunring over a cartoon?!?!?! how do you live with yourself.
7. Reponse to Casey, #3
Patricia ,   Waipahu, Hawaii, USA   (01.18.07)
I think there is a big difference that you have overlooked, while Jews, and others, myself included were offended and outraged by the attempt to deny the holocaust, did anyone get murdered? did buildings get damaged? did threats get made by religious leaders? The western world does respect other religions, here we are free to worship as we please, does this happen in Muslim countries? However, sometimes religious activities and leaders as well as political leaders are characterized as in cartoons. To live in a free world one must accept that not everyone sees things your way. I am Catholic and am sometimes angered by what I consider an unfair portrayal of Catholic leaders such as the Pope, and cannot ignore it but I do not threaten people, I do not murder people and I do not attempt to intimidate them, I do express my opinion. This is the difference.
8. #3 - you moron - no Jew burned and killed to...
Andy ,   ramat hasharon   (01.18.07)
protest what happened in Tehren
9. The Religion of Peace Strikes Again
Terry ,   Eilat - Israel   (01.18.07)
Threats, violence, intimidation, censorship, intolerence, lies, misrepresentations & distortions - who could that possibly be?
10. Casey
Ryan ,   Calgary, Canada   (01.18.07)
No. I had no problem ignoring it. Who cares what those idiots want to hold a conference over. My family saw first hand what your elders did. If some retard wants to deny it, and put on an international stageshow for other idiots. Let him. I don't even remember reading it in any canadian news. Ignoring the attention seeking monkey man works really well. Have you ever read an Iranian newspaper? You didn't notice any jewish or christian jokes. Muslims can be muslims here, it's when they push there views and try to change our ways. If they don't like it they can stay in Iran and read Iranian news and discuss the holocaust or wherever their homeland resides. If they love their prophet and religion so much, why aren't they exposing these imams preaching hate, where's the protests. Just cause Germany is so far left they are almost biting themselves in the ass doesn't mean everyone else is so hospitable. By the way. That play that portrayed the profit being beheaded, which was cancelled as to not offend the muslim population in Germany and cause riots, made the news here more than this conference. Pull your panties out of your a$$ and start pulling your weight, your NATO troops are an embarressment and you should be expelled.
11. I agree with 3
The English writer who said his opinion about the Holocaust sent to prison in Austria and you was all happy with it ... was this not freedom of speach too ?? you are making your democracy a la carte according to your interest ..... and about the reaction and the riot the Muslims did .... any people in the world react like this when they have been touched in a sencetiv point .... how the Black Americans reacted when the police beated King few years ago ??? breaken , stealing and destroying .... in France happend the same last year even the students in Israel did this last month too .... the Jews around the world accusing anyone do not agree with them with anti-simitism , Nazi and terrorism like you now with Carter because he said his opinion about the resistence of the Palistinians ..... your charges to any critic against the Israel are ready .... like a brocken disc we hear it all the time you don't even discuss it .... come on guys ...look at your self in the mirror before you attack anyone and this newspaper manager he didn't mention how much his newspaper and Denemark money they lost because of such action . and to no. 6 learn how to be polite when you discuss anything she is not an idiot but you are because of the unpolite way you use .
12. Respond #3
Viv ,   TA, Israel   (01.18.07)
Casey, the difference is that we were talking about our own people... You are mixing apples and oranges. Why is it ok to have cartoons of jews, the pope and what have you not, but G'd forbid something is said against the Islam... I personally find it a bit distastfull to make jokes about anyones believe system, but fact: We, jews, and others, e.g. christians, DO NOT go out and kill people because of it... The respond they gave just proved that maybe the truth behind the cartoons is not that far away.
13. reply #11
Viv ,   TA, Israel   (01.18.07)
Before accusing others of being one sided, you should do your homework. Freedom of speach does exist in western countries. However, even if someone sais something about the holocaust, makes anti-semitic remarks, or talks against any nation or religion it is FACT that the only real violent reply comes from the moslems... like it or not And just by the way, just to prove the point... the Iman preaching in Australia that Muslims should teach their kids to be "freedom fighters" is a classic example... What a show of loving, excepting and tolerant reliogion... Definatly convinced me (Don't get me wrong, I do know muslims that don't think a good jew or christian is a dead one. It is just the fanatics that are causing the problem.) Andf whoever said that if they have problems with our way of life should go back to their home country - you are 100% right.
14. #7 U do not have to get mad
1.5 Billion muslims   (01.18.07)
cause there is law tha send people to jail if they offend the Jews but the westren encourage people to offend Muslim people and their religion so Muslim have to defend their integraty and their religion : do u get the differance . reality check , world
15. Here is WHAT I LIKE
Atilla Karagözoğlu ,   Istanbul   (01.18.07)
they say The God says "do not talk about their Gods -believes...- bad, they can make same mistake to talk about your one..." with my poor words, with my poor translations. I never make fun on any people. But I always dont mind for positive fun on me. But, I am okey. I can handle, I can fight back, I LOVE PEOPLE ATTACKS ME :) that is the only way, only chance I got talk with them. ıt is a chance to talk about. But, some people are very serious. they cant take anything. in fact we (I) are the serious one, no one sees. I prefer to respect to all. no words, no act can make something bad...or good. something is already good or bad. expressions also should have limits. we cant write anything we want here :) No no. we are writing. but we respect. I wish everyone has respect for others. Ynet ! I love youuuuuuuu :))) Lie lie ;) lets make them happy :))) ************* lets smile. forget about serious subjects. LOVE and RESPECT
16. #14
jerome ,   basalt, co   (01.18.07)
there are not 1.5 billion hypocrites but you are one of the many! U don't get IT and NEVER WILL!
17. To # 6 and 8
Casey ,   Germany   (01.18.07)
people...I'm just saying what i think!!! ok. And can you guys be polite,,,,here is another example, i just expressed my opioion, and the poeple here start calling me "stupid" and "moron"...what is this. And then you guys blame muslims, that they can't tolearate anything. Tell me now my friends, who couldn't tolearate now???? #11 thank you so much for respecting my opioion.
18. to 13
Thanks for your comment but let me clear you somethings ... first i am not moslem i am Christian but i know well what's real Islam is and i know alot of Moslems which they think completly diffrent than the way you think all the time about them .... Islam is the only relegion who forced it's people to respect and to protect the Jews and the Christians and it's a duty for them otherwise the one who don't he is a sinner which we don't have this not in Christianity not in Judism .... and about if they don't like it they should leave and go back to their countries ... why don't you say this to the Jews too ?? ... you are all time complaining that the English , the French , the Swiss , the Germans and and are all anti-simitics but still full of Jews lives there ask to leave and go to Israel if they don't like it too ... i live in Europe and i can tell you that hear most of the Moslems has no problem and we should not take any indeviduel action from someone as a general action .... most of the Jews Orthoudox the way of life in Europe don't suit them but still they live there ... and my point is not to speake about freedom of speach and democracy when the thema is against Islam and Moslems and when it's against the Jews we call it anti-simitism ... i think it's not fair .... thanks
19. to Casey from 11
bitte bitte Kein problem , mache gern .... smile
20. #2 is quite correct: time for the Islamic world to grow up
Cameron ,   USA   (01.18.07)
debate over cartoons: RIDICULOUS! the posting noted that 50 people died over the publication of cartoons-the absurdity of it all
21. Whoa! Hold on there just a minute folks!
Stick with the topic ,   USA   (01.19.07)
Casey and #11 are totally changing the subject when they insist that the argument is over freedom of speech. The point people here are objecting to is the violence and incitement to hatred that follows perceived insults and religious insensitivity. It is true that no Jew to anyone's knowledge has protested the holocaust denial charade that recently took place in Iran by burning an embassy, inciting to murder or behead dissenters, burning flags or effigies, or fabricating cartoons to fan the flames of hatred. #11 makes the analogy that American Blacks rioted over the death of their beloved leader MLK Jr. They may have felt justified, but that didn't help their cause or make it right. Like in the case of the Moslems' reaction to the Jyllands-Posten cartoons, their inappropriate violent behavior just confirmed everyone's suspicions that Moslems are intolerant and use violence to manipulate and intimidate. Jews taking a strong objection to anti-semitic claims made by those wishing to revise history should be taken very seriously. I don't see how a bunch of silly doodles count on the same level as trying to re-write one of the worst crimes in history. No group has the right to protest perceived insults by using anything other than peaceful means, and that goes especially for Moslems, who have yet to demonstrate that they can tolerate protesting in a productive, non-violent way.
22. To # 21 take it easy!!!!
Kevin ,   USA   (01.19.07)
How is Casey changing the subject? I think she is right, she got her own way of expressing her opinion. I really like her example, of how people called her stupid and moron, just because she is expressing her opinion. It was very smart of her giving that example.
23. to 21
bravoooo ... you are again making it a la carte , how many times Jewish Rabies in Israel warned Sharon about the pullout of Gaza and called him sinner and said death is what he deserve ..... Mr. Rabin (God bless him) have been killed by such Fatwa and the killer he think he is relegion's hero but we didn't hear that any of those Rabies went to prison or have been punished and freedom of speach can not be decorated or separated like the holocuast is the most senvetiv point for the Jews Islam is the most important thing for the Moslems or all should be respected and maximum to be politely dicussed or under the tittle of freedom of speach anyone has the right to insult and to say what he wants .... J . Carter have been accused with anti-simitism because of his opinion about the Palistinian resistence just two days ago .... where is the freedom of speach here , where is your democracy .... you was trying to decorate the story but no way .... things should be clear ... black or white the gray has no space here .... thanks for your try .... you can try later again ... i give you one more chance .... lol
24. To #22 and #23
#21 rebuttal ,   USA   (01.19.07)
#22: I agree that it is wrong to use epithets like moron and idiot instead of a civil debate, but that does not deny Casey from expressing her/his opinion. Nevertheless, newspapers can print what they want (freedom of the press,) and can expect REASONABLE flack if the subject is controversial, but intimidation, threats, incitement, and the fabricating of cartoons by the Danish Imams to incite people is illegal and NOT A PROTECTED RIGHT of freedom of speech. To #23: 1. Fanatics are bad no matter what religion they belong to. All the same, those supposed Rabbis to which you referred did not incite their "masses" to burn embassies, protest violently, or make-up phony pictures and pass them off as fact for the sole purpose of inciting hatred. 2. Jews do NOT ISSUE FATWAS. If one disgruntled lunatic assassinates Rabin, it is not the same thing as having religious leaders CONDONE violent acts by suggesting their followers carry out murderous acts of revenge. 3. Jimmy Cartermay or may not be an anti-semite, per se. However, many Jews are frustrated and angry because of his one-sided views regarding the Israel-Palestinian problem. After experiencing the Holocaust, can you blame Jews for being paranoid about this? 4. Sorry, but your understanding about freedom of speech is simply wrong. The press is allowed to print whatever it wants. Period. As I've said previously, people are allowed to protest religious insensitivity using SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE (i.e. NON-VIOLENT) means. Arab newspapers print all kinds of anti-semitic cartoons, and yet I repeat that there have been no reported incidents of Jews making violent threats against the "journalists" who are responsible. 5. This is NOT a case where one can use the analogy of "the pot calling the kettle black." If you want to use that analogy, you have to present CONVINCING EVIDENCE that shows Jews resort to the same violent intimidation tactics as Moselms have. Boycotting is peaceful protest. Writing editorials and condemning Holocaust Denial Conferences is peaceful protest. If you cannot understand the difference between peaceful and socially appropriate ways of protesting and violent acts of revenge, than you have no right to seek a morally equivilent argument. Thanks and have a good day.
25. To # 24
Kevin ,   USA   (01.20.07)
Free of speech has some limitaions when it comes to religion, Would you want me to kill a human being becasue it's democracy and i'm free to do whatever i want to do? When you do something that hurts other religion you should take it in to consederation. We all are human being, and we should all respect one another's cultures. AND do you know thats how hatred and volience continues when you do something purposelly to hurt them. Don't cry then if the violence continues.....
26. to 24
You failed again to clear your situation about freedom of speach .... there is nothing called the press has the right and other people has no right ... come on guy ... again you make it a la carte like the french says ... the English writer when he published his opinion about the Holocuast they put him in prison .... you think it's right ??? if you say yes so you are fanatic and not democratic at all if you say no ... so there is no need to go on because like this it's clear that you agree that anyone can say what he wants ... about those Rabies who accused sharon with the big sinn and he should be punished ... go back to Ynet in the time of Gaza pullout to read it .... the woed Fatwa is not like you understand it , you have to learn Arabic to know what it mean ... anyone he give his opinion about any issue and he think that it's right this called Fatwa ..... and back to mr. Carter you see you said maybe he is anti-simitic but you didn't try to discuss his opinion because it's much easyer for you to accuse someone don't agree with you with anti-simitism than dicussing the issue with him because you know that you will be the loser .... but you didn't realise that the world is fedup from such brocken disc .... and vilonce is vilonce you will not make it katagories ... if it's happend in America because of the black leader so it's happend in Islamic countries because of their leader too (Prophert Mohamed) ... again i am telling you you will not make democracy and freedom of speache according to your interest ... me my self i am with the opinion wich say all the issues should be discussed peacefully with all respect and politely and NO EXPETIONS .... take it all or leave it all .
27. #25 and #26
What, you still ,   don't get it? USA   (01.20.07)
You just don't get. Your arguments show your failure to understand basic tenets of Constitutionally protected rights. You both seem to be saying that the press cannot use freedom of speech because it might hurt someone's feelings. Yeah right, that really makes sense? This shows me that you both would benefit from taking a course in civics or reading the Constitution CAREFULLY. You both need to understand that the right of freedom of the press is that it should not be subject to censorship by religious beliefs, political agendas, or extortion by those in power. If it hurts people's feelings, that is unfortunate, but it is just TOO BAD. The alternative of limited freedom of the press gives the government and religious leaders unbridled power to use the press to further their agendas. This will produce nothing but propaganda and suppression of the truth. #26 your points I already debated in the last talkback. You are not making any new points worth addressing, and you obviously only hear yourself talking. People like Irving, the writer who denied the Holocaust, were jailed because they presented falsehood as fact and tried to pass it off as truth IN WRITING. This form of REVISION OF HISTORY is called LIBEL, and is a punishable offense. It is a far cry from some lunatic who makes some insipidly foolish speech about Holocaust denial and someone who writes a book full of lies and tries to present it as fact. In Austria, Holocaust denial is a CRIME. That is what the law of that country states. This case is more complicated than you realize and has nothing to do with freedom of speech. I notice that there is a language barrier and that your English is dubious and you do not express yourself very coherantly in the language. However, I concur with your last statement, that disagreements should be discussed peacefully. If you honestly believe that, then how can you defend what your fellow Moslems did in reaction to a bunch of stupid cartoons just because their feelings were hurt? That sort of response is childish and unacceptable. If you really agree with me that people have the right to express their opinions, then you'll also agree that that right extends to Danish cartoonists. Like the famous quotation says: "I do not like what he says, but I will defend to the death his right to say it!" And here's a quotation for you in particular: "People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." Food for thought, sir. Take it or leave it.
28. Addendum to my last post
#27 ,   USA   (01.20.07)
I neglected to give credit for the two quotations I cited in my last post. the first being by Voltaire, and the second by Soren Kierkegaad (a Dane, no less!) I wish these two briliiant men were still alive and could use their gifts for logic to respond on these talkbacks! However, one can only try one's best....
29. to 27
Come on guy .... you are making your Holocaust more holly than any relegion ... relgions are history too and you can not change it .... and when the press like to discuss any issue like they have the right to say what they want there is also rulles for the game ... there was no need to publish Jokes about a holly person and Prophet of a huge amount of people around the world this is not freedom but vulgarity and unpolite way to discuss an issue ... and you too .. clear how much fanatic and you don't want to see the facts because it doesn't suit you ... for you some unknown journalists has the right to insult a holly Prophet but a known writer doesn't have the right to publish his opinion about Holocuast i think with such people has no meaning to go on discussing anything with them because it's you who hear only him self and you see only what's makes you happy and you don't want to look in mirror to see your self right because the truth will depress you ... denial Holocuast is crime but accusing a holly person with terrorism is not a crime ... ha ... what kind of freedom is this .... this time is not a la carte but a la Jews .... and don't mix up the things ... i didn't defend the Moslem reaction go back to my statment i said i prefer that any issue should be peacefuly dicussed but all the issued not one yes and one not ... like there is laws concidering the denial of the Holocaust as crime should make the same laws for voilating relegions and holly people .... and by the way i am not a Moslem but Christian ... all what i can tell you that because of fanatic people like you the world will never have peace ... because of unjustice way you use against the others and the pressure you put over them this create all the time more fanatic and more terrorism .... go on but don't cry all the time why they hate you and why they want to destroy you .... we need people with clean hearts and minds and this two things .... sorry ... you don't have .... leave it or leave it
30. It's not fair.....
Casey ,   Germany   (01.21.07)
Here in Germany if someone said something against jews they will automatically be prisoner, why? Aren’t those people have the right to express their opinion. Why Can’t I have the right to say something about Jews, but its okay for me to say something against Islam? Is this what you called Free of speech?????????
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