Hey Ray, checks in the mail if you post a photo copy of that palestinian passport on your web site. Edward said claimed he had a palestinian passport also but he could never produce it. name your price- checks in the mail if you can produce it on your web site. ray, heres looking at you

You are right I know very little about the history of European Jewry. I am also less experienced in life than you (given the age difference). But from my own experience and observation, N. African Jewry never tried to impose their religious beliefs on Jews in israel or even to influence politics there. They were vulnerable and dispossessed and the “establishment” represented by the movement you speak for, worked quite successfully to disconnect them from their heritage and religion, the religion of our ancestors. Why? This religion is not 250 years old, it pre-dates the RamBam and Saadia Gaon (A"H), that is over 1000years old (at least), pre-dates the Talmud (over 1800 years old). It predates the tanach (over 2200 years old). And on and on, its pretty old. No one is forced to be Jewish, and one can easily pull oneself way from the Jewish religion and "influence" of the “extremists”, if they so desire. The problem is not with the Jewish religion or even with the "extremists", the problem is with groups that choose to destroy the Jewish religion either from without or within who are intolerant to the only religion that recognizes the right to exist of every other religion. I personally do not want a theocracy in palistine/israel at this point in time b'cos it is putting the proverbial cart before the horse. I don’t see how it can work. Jewish tradition from the RamBam and Judah haLevi (A"H) teaches that the whole point of true religion is not to impose one's ideal on others but to achieve full control of one's own actions and channel those actions towards what is good and just. That is what G-d "desires". If an individual attains such self- perfection, then their community will also be influenced positively, leading naturally towards the ideal where the community is itself just and good. And that G-d helps the individual and community on this path. You could say that if you lean "towards" G-d then He "leans" towards you (a paraphrase tehillim 67:5). On this basis and this is the view of non-Zionist religious "extremists", a theocracy is futile until the "messianic" redemption, when all of humanity will be "perfect" and therefore in complete agreement. No group will need to impose its beliefs on others. Such "extremists" do not care to control others; they just want to continue their way of life, just like a Hindu wants to continue his way of life and such a right should be respected. Throughout the last 1000 years of history in palistine/israel such religious "extremists" (Ramban, Maran, Ari, etc, A"H) lived in peace among arab/muslims working on their religious ideal. Now it is Zionism that unwittingly empowered Jewish religious "extremism" to believe in an imminent and necessary theocracy. B'cos this is the true meaning of Jewish sovereignty or national salvation in the land of yisrael. Any other meaning is not legitimate both in secular humanitarian terms and according to the traditional Jewish religion. Simply put, Religious Jewish "extremists" before Zionism were not looking to a theocracy. Rspectfully Abdullah

So I suggest rather than attacking all religious "extremists" (hareidim). Be objective and work with those "extremists" who share your goal. Which is to create a peaceful, just and moral environment for ALL people , Jews ("extremists", "moderate" and "secular") and Arabs/Muslims, to live together in peace, justice and equality in palistine/israel. I can assure you that religious "extremists" can be very productive, forward looking and successful members of society. Consider the very religious Sephardic and temani Jewish communities of New York. The problem is not with the Jewish religion or even with the degree of devotion to it, it is with the political environment in which "extremists" like myself, find ourselves. Does it give us religious freedom or does it actively work towards destroying our heritage and the heritage of our righteous ancestors who we love and who suffered to hold on to this heritage, even when faced with much worse conditions. So if Zionism speaks for Jews then it needs to recognise the rights of ALL Jews, with all that implies. Or it needs to stop speaking on behalf of ALL Jews and start speaking on behalf of all of humanity (like the American democratic system). This will solve a lot of the problems between Jews and between Jews and others. Bear in mind that this is a "leftist" ideal coming from a religious "extremist". So yes, you can find a progressive partner who care for the advancement of all of humanity in the non-Zionist "hareidi" community. The question is if you and others who share your beliefs can “tolerate” such a partner whose “metaphysical” outlook is diametrically opposed to yours but who share your concern for justice and peace for all humanity, and who respect the varied religious or non-religious beliefs of others. BR

A recounting who we are can build an understanding of who we can choose to be. In this lifetime, I have seen enough senseless death and suffering over etherial ideals and greed. For my part, I choose to be peace. Those few of us who speak for peace must speak louder, louder, louder. And, having read your story, I can now call you friend. Be peace, friend.

Stay where you are and invite your family members to partake into joys of Chicago.

I agree with a lot of what you say. Utopia is unattainable, it is a pipe dream, even if the Messiah will come( didn't he arrive on the 25th December 4 BCE ), each and every individual ever born had ego, this is perfectly natural, it is not a sin. The sin is when you do not recognize that you have ego and do not control it but let it control you. Unfortunately most people are controlled by their ego in most situations in life. All relationships, whether between individuals, organizations or larger entities such as countries, must be based on mutuality, a two way street, give and take. This will never happen, amongst other things, because of our ego. This is only one reason why utopia and the Messiah will never happen. I apologize for letting you down, but these are the facts, pragmatism is a prudent accessory through the pathway of life. I shall continue to believe that man and mankind are sacrosanct and that mankind has only suffered by the various concepts of supernatural creators and entities all of whom, in my opinion, are figments of man's imagination. I respect all men with only one proviso, that they respect humanity. He who does not respect humanity does not deserve to be part of it.

In 1967, several hours before Israel launched its attack on Egypt, it sent a telegram to the then-king Hussein of Jordan (under whose "occupation" the Palestinians had been living since 1949 without complaint) saying that its conflict was only with Egypt and it had neither the intention nor the desire to fight Jordan. Hussein responded that he had already commited himself to the coming attack and could not pull out now. And so Jordanian Artillery opened fire on Israel as soon as the war began. And as for our invasion of Egypt, that was in slef-defence since Nasser was making no secret of his intention to annihilate Israel, and he had moved ten thouand soldiers to the Egypt-Israel border in preparation for hat war (a move that cannot be regarded as defensive since at the time Israel did not even have a standing army and part of what made the 1967 victory so amazing was that all the soldiers who fought in it were called up over the three days preceding the war). If you want further proof that Israel had no choice but to attack Egypt, you should know that Victor Suvorov, a famous Russian tactician writes that a few days before the war he recieved a memo that was being circulated throughout the Soviet high-command (which had to approve any military action taken by its Arab allies) stating that an Arab invasion of Israel was expected day-to-day and that Israel's life expectancy was 3 -5 days.

The gist of what you say is right. Just two points. Ten thousand should read one hundred thousand. Israel of course did invade Egypt for reasons of self defense but also for pure survival, as your mention of Suvorov confirms. The legal pretext for war was simple. Egypt closed the straits of Tiran to Israeli ships, thus denying israel access to her own territorial waters on the one hand, and denying her access to international waterways on the other hand. In international law this act constitutes cassus belli. This in itself stands as a reason for attack and legally dwarfs all other considerations, important as they may be.

is oedipal in nature. The Jews and Judaism, the father, are being challenged by the son, Islam/palestinian arabs/arabs in general, and the only resolution comes from the child understanding that he is not in conflict with the father but rather they are on the same side. Unfortunately, the child, in this case, has been brainwashed to believe that the father is evil, wants to kill him, and must be killed first. This message has been drilled into the heads of countless arabs. Unfortunately, there is no mother to mediate, only father and son. Father bore the son. Will this be another sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham? we shall see. The father's story or history cannot be retold by the child for the sake of the child's welfar or the child whimsy. This is where revisionism runs amok. Perchance father and son can once again be family. Unfortunately, the child has grown restless, wild, rageful and has not been disciplined. If the child threatens to murder the father, what must the father do? sit there and complain, whine? I think not.

Thanks for the very candid dialog and sharing your experience (its priceless). I would like to close with your quote: "I respect all men with only one proviso, that they respect humanity. He who does not respect humanity does not deserve to be part of it. " Respectfully

when prophit noah was on the ship .he asked the son to be with him , as herefused he was drawned. the fathe felt sorry and told the god that he is my son ,he was from my family .. god replied ,, no he is not from your family .. he is a bad doing // to day th israilis are the bad doing of the anchant jew

and chewin dem later

Dear Ray , u probably know that this sentence is part of one of the jewish people most ancient prayer (centuries before islam was existing). "Next year in Jerusalem" is a sentence that is said every year for Pessah (passeover) at the end of our prayer. It is very interesting to see that your father is using this same sentence . Again it looks like it is a maneuver in which musulims are very good at : to appropriate to themself things that belong to others and pretend it is theirs. Sorry but it is very gross !

on the photograph says - The Land of Israel, Jerusalem, 1924. Ther'es your evidence that Palestine is the Land of Israel and the Land of Israel is Palestine.

"to appropriate to themself things that belong to others and pretend it is theirs. " I'm impressed on how someone can be so ignorant and audacious in his ignorance. 1- Ray is christian 2- It's very funny coming from an israeli, since you've stolen not only tha land, but the cuisine and the culture of the arab people in the region. You're the invaders and robbers, not the arabs. Sorry, but it is very gross!