Jewish Scene
Italian church displays anti-Semitic exhibition
Yossi Bar
Published: 22.01.07, 18:06
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1. My Muffins
Martha Stewartski ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (01.22.07)
That's how I bake my Hannukah Muffins too....nothing better than the body of Christ. High fiber and tastes delicious! Buy your communion wafers early this year before the holidays as prices tend to rise closer to Easter.
2. X=Evil=Aushwitz
Galit ,   NYC   (01.22.07)
Christianity a religion that has killed millions, enslaved millions, tortured millions, destroyed civilizations has rears it true face and true shallowness again and again. Is there a real difference between the Pope and Osama?
3. Hey, Martha - Do you bake the special matzot too?
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (01.22.07)
4. RCC is not Christian
David Ben-Ariel ,   Toledo, USA   (01.22.07)
Please don't put a BLOOD LIBEL on all Christians because of the Roman Catholic Cult. That would be as unjust as blaming all Jews for the liberal Hollywood elite or Socialism or Communism.
5. Yoshky
Erik ,   Washington, DC   (01.22.07)
Nothing like Yoshky sufaniyot in the morning.
6. Won't they ever quit???
Tracy W   (01.23.07)
These things are still happening because "nice Catholics" allow them to happen. Shame!
7. Anti semetic paintings
Patricia ,   Waipahu, Hawaii, USA   (01.23.07)
I tried to research this church, it may be a Francisican Church that holds the remains of St Francisi of Assisi. A man who loved people and animals and is my favorite saint. I cannot believe that this despictable incident could occur at this time in any Catholic church let alone a Franciscian Church. Do not judge all Catholics for what happens in a remote country church. I have to believe that Cardinal Krasper will intervene and make suitable apologies. To David Ben Ariel some people jump at any reason without much information (4 tiny paragraphs) to insult others are you any better than these paintings being displayed.
8. To Martha #1
Besalel ,   Kew Gardens, NY   (01.23.07)
In order to get that real juicy flavor, you should add i cup of goy boy's blood and just a tiny pinch of salt.
9. #4, You are spitting in the wind...
David ,   WA, USA   (01.23.07)
The Jews here have so much hatred for Yahshua that they can't even read what you wrote. They don't seem to understand that sin belongs to the person who commits it. Thus, since somebody (singular) painted a picture portraying a single Jew in an atrocious manner, they will choose to paint every believer in Yahshua with the same evil brush. I don't see much righteous judgement being displayed here. In fact, I am beginning to think they really don't like us! :-)
10. #1, 3, 8
Patricia ,   Waipahu, Hawaii, USA   (01.23.07)
Did it occur to you that your statements might be as offensive to others as the paintings were to you? Does it matter? Or is the only offense acceptable is that of anti semitism? Not anti catholicism as expressed here. I am beginning to believe David, #9, just might be right for perhaps different reasons. In this talkback and others, I have noticed an intolerance to other religions that you all loudly denounce when it comes to your religion. We all believe and worship God differently, couldn't we accept this without insulting the others beliefs.
DENNIS ,   CHICAGO, USA   (01.23.07)
13. #4: Catholics are Christian, Jews are Liberal!
Boris ,   Scandinavia   (01.23.07)
David, The Roman Catholic Church is Christian, without it Protestants and Evangelicals would not exist. And most Jews, at least in the US, are liberals, the majority of American Jews vote fo the Democrats.
14. To Patricia and David
Jamie ,   Rome   (01.23.07)
I think you will find that St Francis of Assisi is buried in Assisi and not Orvieto. Furthermore Catholicism is not a cult, but the most widespread form of Christianity on the planet. No wonder other people's perception of Christianity are based upon it. Frankly I'm not surprised that in that backward region they lack the sensibility to realise the inappropriacy of the exhibition.
15. To Patricia, Hawaii.
Genie ,   UK   (01.23.07)
I think you are going a little overboard in referring to No.s 1, 3, and 8. They are just using a little satire to reinforce what a lot of people truly believe. You should well know that for many years Catholics believed that the blood of Christian children was used to make matzo, and many still live in the dark ages. Those contributors mentioned are parodying those beliefs.
16. Servitude to GOD
chaim ,   miami beach usa   (01.23.07)
Every nation no matter how despotic its leadership claims that GOD is with them, as an example; The motto on the belt buckle worn as part of the official uniform by the Nazi’s contained the following emblem “GOT IS MIT UNZ” translated “God is with us” If there is only one God to which God did that phrase refer to as they perpetrated their genocidal acts, I believe it must to the same God the Islamic Hoards which bow down to Allah 5 times every day, as they have the same agenda as the Nazi’s and is also the God of the Catholics when in their effort to “Purify” the world to their God, condoned every diabolical act performed in his name and called it “FOT THE GLORY OF GOD. God be it Christian, Moslem, Judaism, will never bestow his glory upon the world and in particular to any murderous act done in “HIS GLORY” God is life, tolerance and peace, any deviation from that recognition is not a GODLY sanctioned act irrespective by whom it is espoused and the stature of the person encouraging it
17. We must open our selfs to the world
Eric ,   Nicaragua   (01.23.07)
This is exactly why we most give an extra effort to teach the world about Judaism and the rich culture within, I’m not talking about Proselytise, but about letting the gentiles experience our holidays and the way we celebrate it, ignorance is a dark and foggy road, we are suppose to bring light to the world. In this century we can’t stay quite it , we most approach the nations, and have our presence felt, make contributions to culture and understanding, have gentile friends over for Shabbat, and openly denounce lies and racists remarks, but not only to those direct it at us but to anyone else.
18. To #10 Patricia
Helen (a Catholic) ,   Stanford, CA   (01.23.07)
If you weren't ignorant and anti Semitic yourself, you wouldn't have gone on such a stupid tirade. Get a history book and read about Blood Libel throughout the centuries and learn what ##1,3 and 8 were referring to. In the meantime zip up!
19. To Patricia...
Lior ,   London   (01.23.07)
Had it possibly occurred to you that this is an Israeli website? And that Israel is the Jewish State? And that this conversation is between Jews? What, may I ask, are you doing here? If we were reading the Times, any manner or kind of comment would seem utterly normal and unquestionable - provided it did not display ill-mannered prejudice. But we're not. You come here, knowing it to be an Israeli site, bring your cultural baggage and your Catholicism with you and then stamp your foot in anger when you read something that doesn't conform to your world view and can't be forced through the prism of your faith. I've a mind to say, "tough". I've a mind to say a lot of things. Suffice it to say that this site is available for anyone to read and to comment. But that doesn't change the nature of the site nor the outlook of the majority of people reading it. After the last 2,000 years of outrageous persecution of Jews at Catholic hands, may I suggest that if you want to shove your Catholicism down everyone's throat, you find another forum and if you wish to stay, remember the sensibilities of those who produce and frequent this site. Christianity has a history of purloining and stealing from Judaism. It is not your religion and our sensibilities and objections are not yours to censure but accept with that much vaunted but heretofore somewhat unevident Christian humility and good grace in atonement for sins past. That would be the appropriate measure of your concern and comment. Can you not find another website and trample over everyone else there?
20. #10 Misses the point
Aharon ,   E. Windsor, NJ USA   (01.23.07)
I am amazed that people still insist that JEWS be the only ones to be tolerant and not complain at such hatred. They call us "hyper-sensitive" - I guess 6 million dead will do that from time to time. Its as if nothing ever terrible happened to Jews at the hands of Christianity, and no one has to recognize the historical reality of that. It is also a false accusation to claim Jews/Judaism hates Christianity - since we do not have a 2,000 legacy of hate towards it (resistance is NOT hate) and we did not invoke pogroms, Inquisitions, Crusades and Holocausts. Own your own history and be humble enough to not repeat it.
21. Genie #15
Patricia ,   Waipahu, Hawaii, USA   (01.23.07)
Thank you for expressing your viewpoint, you may be right, however, it was still offensive to me. Jamie thank you for clearing up the burial site of St Francis. When I read the various articles, it was not clear to me that this area was not in Assisi.
22. #13, Partially True...
David ,   WA, USA   (01.23.07)
You are correct that protestantism and evangelicalism would not exist, as it does today, without the catholic church. They are "daughters" of the catholic church and have inherited much unscriptural doctrine and ritual from their "mother". Be careful not assume that your label of "Christainity" equals being a follower of Messiah Yahshua. In fact, the religious practices of the mother and daughter church have caused the name of YHVH and Yahshua to be blasphemed, as is commonly seen in reader comments on YNET. Yahshua promoted obedience to the Almighty and refuted Mary worship as clearly shown in Luke 11:27-28. The pope had no more scriptural authority to replace Sabbath keeping with "sun" day worship (from Decrees of the Ecumenical Councils) than the rabbis had by replacing the passover lamb with a chicken (from the Talmud). It is clear to me that most men try to enter through the wide gate (Sorry to burst your bubble commenter #14) by following their blind leader rather than trying to squeeze through the narrow gate provided by El Yon.
23. Lior 19 & Patricia
MairiT ,   Glasgow Scotland   (01.24.07)
There will come a time when we will all have to stand together and fight for freedom/survival and I, sure as hell, am not going to argue the toss about religion.
24. To Lior in London
shiksa   (01.24.07)
Your hateful words show that you are as bad as that which you condemn.
25. all this talk of food is giving me dyspepsia
alka seltzer   (01.24.07)
26. to #1
Falafel Cholent   (01.24.07)
Ahmed, is that you? I'd recognize you anywhere! (you ol' devil, you!) Haven't been around in a while. Did you want that blueberry muffin recipe of mine?
27. Criticisms by #18, 19 and 23
Patricia ,   Waipahu, Hawaii, USA   (01.24.07)
Helen: You seem very hostile and took my remarks for more than what they were. The previous remarks were offensive to me and I determine what is offensive to me. I will not respond to your antisemetic remarks people on these posts throw that around whenever they disagree with someone. With regard to the Blood Libel, I have never heard of this, so I would not have been able to read up on it. I am aware of the horrible treatment Jews received until recently with no condemnation by the Church and have always been critical of the inaction, sometimes actions, of the Church. On the other hand, making insensitive comments does not help matters either. We all live togather and could at least respect one another s religions which is what I do. You will never read a negative remark about Judism or its rituals from me. As for Lior, you seem to be anti catholic in your remarks, also when I signed up to participate in these posts I was not asked if I were Jewish. I respect the Jewish faith and expect the same from others to my faith. This is not unusal. I see not everyone agrees with you. You also seem to be a bit of a bully. I do not recall saying anything more but a reminder to others that their statements can be offensive to others. I have never preached my religion only used an example to illustrate my displeasure and surprise with what had happened. Also I am sure you are always Jewish in your world view and I would like to remind you that I am always Catholic. I have never been involved in any persecution of Jews or any religion and I was not around for the middle ages nor for WWII. I do not feel I need to apologize to you for my statements, any offense you feel is of your own making, but do feel you need to get a grip and focus on people who really are your enemy (s) Other than my innocuous remark about St Francis (and people here make many remarks about Jewish beliefs) I have never tried to shove my belief down anyones throat or even discussed religion. But since this was about Catholic misbehavior, I made a few comments. I will continue to post here and do not accept your premise that I trampled over anyone, please reread my post without your apparent blindness to being objective and at least to listen to the views of others. Why you focused on me is unclear, others made remarks that you should reread. (14, 22, 13)
28. Learn first, scream later
Wolfram ,   USA   (01.24.07)
Before everyone starts screaming on the basis of this brief article, try first to get some facts. To begin with, the exhibit is not precisely "an exhibition of anti-Semitic paintings," as the article states. It is an exhibit of 40 old paintings selected on the theme of "miracles attributed to the Host." One or more of these paintings happens to contain elements of the blatantly anti-Semitic iconology found in much of European Christian (and especially Catholic) art. To me, the question is: what justifies this display? Is it esthetic (i.e., are these masterpieces of artistic technique worthy of being shown regardless of subject matter)? Is it historical or didactic (i.e., does this choice of paintings educate viewers as to the practise of anti-Semitic propaganda carried out by the Church over millenia)? Or is it religiously ideological and dogmatic (i.e., a manifestation of present-day Church-sponsored propaganda extolling the magical or "miraculous" virtues of fetishes still used in Church ceremonies)? Or is it truly "anti-Semitic," that is, intended to express or cause hatred of Jews? The first two of these possibilities are perhaps justifiable; the remaining two are not. I reserve judgment until I am better informed.
29. What, may I ask, are you doing here?
RedStarYeast ,   USA   (01.24.07)
I wish to thank Lior for conceding that "this site is available for anyone to read and to comment"; for a moment I was afraid that I was trespassing! I still don't know how this gracious concession jibes with the earlier pronunciamento "that this conversation is between Jews ." An eleventh Commandment, perhaps? Happily, I can slip in under that fiat, too. But I'm still striving to understand how this exclusive "Israeli website" came to be connected to the so-called "World Wide" Web, and how Lior managed to log in from...London. To borrow a phrase, "What, may I ask, are you doing [t]here?" That being said, I'm bemused by the torrent of pent-up resentment unleashed on poor Patricia for her rather mild and conciliatory comment. Read on, Patricia: you'll quickly discover that this is definitely not the Times! I am looking forward with relish, however, to more diatribes in the same vein.
30. To Patricia, RedStar and Shiksa
Lior ,   London   (01.24.07)
Thank you for proving my point. Shiksa, without any explanation, your (what was your wonderful foray into Spanish, RedStar, to give that semblance of the international sophisticate? Ah, yes...) "pronunciamento" denotes your self-assumed authority to condemn. No explanations needed by you! Oh, no... judge and jury - filled with hate, off with his head. Now we know why the Catholics behaved as they did for 2 thousand years. And now you know why, in the name of tolerance I will not tolerate this bastardization of decency. Patricia, my dear. I'm sure you will always remain a Catholic. I hope you do. But in so graciously allowing me to be a Jew - in contrast with many of your faith until 1963 and Vatican II - has it not occurred to you, (or is the catechism of your church so wanting in common decency?) that as a Jew, I hold you responsible - not to blame - but responsible for the actions of your church and I expect you to behave accordingly. I do not need your permission to hold this view and if it offends, it is a lesser offence than the blood of the Jewish martyrs who died at Catholic hands. Grow up - the world has changed, yours it not the hegemony it once was and contestations to the contrary will not change that. And now, RedStar, you question the legitimacy of my comments vis-à-vis the nature of the World Wide Web. Had it occurred to you that I am simply demanding what every other nation and people seem to be granted except Israel and the Jewish people? Yes, I am demanding that we be seen just like anyone else... with the right to our own sense of religious, cultural, linguistic and political self-determination that is not subject to the arbitrary arrogance of others to decree its worth or very existence. I am therefore I am. And I will be what I will be. No manner of political criticism, fawning Catholic accommodation or simple condemnation is going to change that. So, you change for once. We'll set the balance straight and even. Israel and the Jews are not going to define themselves any longer through the prism of others' prejudices. Be governed accordingly.
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