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Ramon found guilty of indecent conduct
Vered Luvitch
Published: 31.01.07, 12:54
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1. ANAK!
(01.31.07)
2. wow - unanimous decision of THREE whole judges
ludicrous ,   Israel   (01.31.07)
This ruling is ridiculous. There's no 'jury of peers' at magistrate court, only three judges (who tend to be left-leaning, especially in Tel Aviv area). It's sure hard to reach a consensus between three people with the same political bent. What dross.
3. Good Bye and Good Riddance
shelly   (01.31.07)
4. bad first date kiss also harrassment?
Noa ,   Israel   (01.31.07)
The problem with sexual harrassment is that, often, different parties have different thresholds for what constitutes harrassment. Obviously, violence in the physical/sexual realm can easily be categorized as wrong. However, there's much more of a grey area regarding unsolicitied attention, from kisses to mere compliments. The only way to clear up this greyness is to TALK. If someone is making you uncomfortable, TELL THEM. A lot of the time, they have no idea. Think about a goodnight kiss you got from someone you thought you just went out with as friends. Is this called harrassment? NO. It's called an unwanted advance. If you say that it makes you uncomfortable and the other person continues, THEN it becomes harrassment. Otherwise, it's usually just a misunderstanding. You can't count on the other person to be telepathic or even good at reading body language. If every such case of misunderstanding is touted as harrassment (especially when the woman hasn't even bothered trying to say 'no'), it undermines the legitimacy of real claims of harrassment. It's a powerful accusation. It should not be thrown around. In this case, it seems that it was.
5. Chaim Ramon
Zvip ,   Beit Shean, Israel   (01.31.07)
A good beginning. Next up- Moshe Katzav
6. ANOTHER ONE DOWN
DAVID ,   JUDEA   (01.31.07)
hopefully more to follow. The fact that haim ramon could be minister of justice, says enough about how low this country has sunk. Many of us have not forgotten his poiseness role towards the religious community. Question, is my tax money still going towards a nice fat pension for this jerk?
7. What's wrong with your politicians
Ali ,   Lebanon   (01.31.07)
looooooooooooooool
8. I gues that your Politicians should either get
Ali ,   Lebanon   (01.31.07)
married before going into politics or maybe wait until they grow up...that's really silly
9. Sexist Ruling
rh ,   Ashdod Israel   (01.31.07)
I bet this would not have got to court if a woman kissed a man. She did not resist or say no. I have had plenty unwanted kisses from hairy lipped aunties (not with tongue, or lips). Let the law be clear on where to draw a line. What made it indecent, tongue,lips or kiss. Maybe shaking a hand could be considered indecent, if the women is religious. My religious friend does not touch other women, but occasionally a woman will try kiss him to say hello, he does not stop her so as to not embarrass her, since he says this is more important. Perhaps Ramons honor was more important
10. Bothering Women Honor !
Atilla Karagozoglu ,   Istanbul   (01.31.07)
power can turn any man DOWN I am not going to blame on MAN I am not going to blame on Jew Man I am not going to blame on Jew Man Who has some pozition I am not going to blame on the ladies this is not just about MAN people this is not just about WOMAN people this is about the power. lets explain this; think you are normal level man, suddenly you get a few million dollars !!! what happens 99% you go down. you lose your personality, you lose your honesty, you do bad things. another example; you are normal level officer, but after years you become High level person, many people work for you, you have power,.... AT THIS POINT; man starts to change. they act more freely, they lose their honor looking at another woman, than they make that big mistake. MAN IS NOT DEVIL , WOMAN IS NOT ANGLE. I believe one thing : if a woman stays too serious (which must be, this is man's world, WOLF ARE EVERYWHERE) no man can go for it. BUT not for all cases. if man is devil, how to stop him ? as a man I never did that. well I talk, I look at other woman, just look dont hurt . you know how this things are. Main Point: man created bad. but woman are some other devils. MAY GOD PROTECT MAN FROM WOMAN' DEVIL. MAY GOD PROTECT ALL WOMEN FROM DIRTY MAN. if a woman (Lady) wants to put some man DOWN, man has no chance. I hate rapist. I hate harrasment man. Friendly Advice ; There are very much women in every where in world they work for money ! why those man bother woman honor ?
11. horney politicians what a soap opera
mike ,   israel   (01.31.07)
Itzik Mordechai, Bibi and his affair, ramon, Katzev, who is next? will beilin & sarid come out of the closet? Will we discover that olmert has a lover? (after all there is lesbinaism in his house) will Peres get unmasked for his affairs over the years? Stay tuned for the next episode of" As the Stomach Turns!"
12. His Partner?
Reuven Brauner ,   Raanana, Israel   (01.31.07)
The fact that Mr. Ramon has a "partner", which we can presume to be a live-in girlfriend, is indicative of how far his lifestyle is from traditional Torah/Jewish values. Observant Jews do not have "partners", they have legal and kosher wives and husbands. The idea that it is acceptable to have a "partner" without the benefit of marriage is exactly what led Mr. Ramon to his bad behavior. Because for one who rejects the idea of holy matrimony, women are merely sexual objects to be toyed with at will. His G-dless lifestyle caused his downfall.
13. What! He kissed a girl without her permission!?
Richard ,   New York, USA   (01.31.07)
Life imprison! What an incredible story this is, and what a waste of taxpayers money.
14. A Good day for Women !!!
Talula ,   Israel   (01.31.07)
So there is some justice when it concerns women.
15. who's next?
peleg   (01.31.07)
now we will get many more complaints of women that were kissed by all kinds of men with public jobs.
16. I'm definitely not a Ramon fan, but....
LEE ,   NY, USA   (01.31.07)
national humiliation and a permanent exit from holding public office seems like punishment enough for this guy. As much as I can't stand his ideals, I think jail time would be ridiculous.
17. What was Ramon thinking anyway??
Esther ,   Ofarim, Israel   (01.31.07)
As Minister of JUSTICE, what the heck was he, an older MARRIED man, thinking, smooching a 19-year old girl? For that alone he deserved to get punished. He is a public figure, a representative of our government and his behaviour should befit his station. And then to force a kiss on her? What an idiot. Good riddance.
18. one down, twenty eight to go
(01.31.07)
19. #6 - Another one down ?
James ,   Ramat Hasharon   (01.31.07)
So you live in the Judea ? Our Tax money pay for you in every single way, from roads, guards, subsidies and many others. I do not have a problem about that, although I do resent it as taxes are high enough. But do not point a finger at anyone else
20. Illegimate trial
Sidney ,   USA   (01.31.07)
No democratic country today has a trial by judges. Until Israel has trial by jury I wont believe anything that comes out of Israel's courts.
21. sounds like a good candidate for presidency
roger ,   australia   (01.31.07)
22. to #20 jury system
roger ,   australia   (01.31.07)
...and this coming from the land which showed the world the wonders of the jury system by aquitting o.j. simpson...
23. No. 20 Sidney from USA
David ,   Leeds, UK   (01.31.07)
I must tell you Sidney that only a small minority of democratic countries have jury trial in criminal cases, nearly all of them English speaking countries. Virtually the only place in Europe for example where there are juries is the UK. Israel is definitely in the majority. Even in the UK 98% of criminal cases are dealt with without a jury.
24. #22 re: 20 LOL!!!!!!!!! so true!
(01.31.07)
25. Response to #22
Sidney ,   USA   (01.31.07)
It is a basic American principle that it is better that 100 guilty go free than that one innocent person be convicted. Nobody would claim that the American system is perfect. However, centuries, maybe millenia, have taught us that judges cannot be trusted. In Israel, the basic law for a long time was whatever Aaron Barak wanted it to be.
26. NR 19 right James
DAVID ,   JUDEA   (01.31.07)
The fact that i am not considerd a part of medinat Israel is fine with me . I am a jew and defenitly not an israeli. But i get taxed and pay for your corrupt system and maybey you should come here (probaly you have never been) and see how bad the road conditions are. So mr ramat hasharon maybey good for you to realize that we are on the frontline of your failed state,stoppingrockets from falling on your head. Ups i forget probaly in your eyes the pull out of Gush Katif was a great sucses and brought you peace. For your knowledge,if you would open the Torah,you would see that i live in the heart of the land of Israel. Between Beth Lehem and Hevron, i do not remember seeing the name ramat hasharon there. But in the eyes of the state you are a great sucses mr james with your nice assimilated name.
27. Partner
JM ,   Moncton Canada   (01.31.07)
His partner is hot.
28. By the way # 22
Sidney ,   USA   (01.31.07)
How do you know that O. J. Simpson was guilty? Do you believe the media?
29. Very good. I'm pleased
Delilah ,   mainly at the kirya   (01.31.07)
BUT, she is NOT the little innocent she acted out. She behaves like all typical barbie type chayalot/girls around :- gave her phone number( did he ask for it? probably not), asked him to come overseasetc. Not exactly a little virgin mary is our little 'bet yaakov' girl. But I'm delighted with the outcome, in spite of her, not because of her. Let him and others, learn a VERY valuable lesson. Yes, women DO THROW themselves at you, but beware if you encourage them, and beware if you don't, (and they feel offended). "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" Either way, you can't win...
30. to #28: believing the media
roger ,   australia   (01.31.07)
a. your friend was about to publish a book on how he committed the murders b. he was found guilty of causing ronald goldman's death (February 4, 1997, Santa Monica, California) c. yes, i do believe that the media would not publish allegations against powerful/rich/famous people without checking the fact very carefully beforehand as these are the people who are most likely to sue for libel (that's why I put my money on Katzav being a rapist too, by the way)
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