Jewish Scene
UK: Jewish group says criticism of Israel 'censored'
Yaakov Lappin
Published: 13.02.07, 17:18
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1. Ynet, what in the world is wrong with you?
(02.13.07)
Every single article is a negative depressing article, there is still good in this world. Goodness gracious, what are you thinking? What is your goal? To make it seem that the world is over and its not worth fighting for?! THERE IS STILL SOME GOOD IN THIS WORLD AND IT IS TRULY WORTH FIGHTING FOR!
2. Hatemongering regarding Israel is NOT criticism
Antonio ,   Haifa   (02.13.07)
What the hell is "Israel debate" they are referring to anyway? Maybe we should start a "UK debate"?
3. Au contraire
Kyle ,   Southpark, CO, USA   (02.13.07)
It is support of Israel that is being stifled.
4. UK Jews and Isreal
Koppers ,   Manchester   (02.13.07)
As a UK Jew I can personally vouch that there is no censorship with regards to criticism of Israel. I'd love to know who and what body is the source of this censorship.
5. The IJV
Jane   (02.13.07)
I'm sure these are British Jews of the ilk of Noam Chomsky, Ilan Pappe, Tony Kushner, Tony Judt, etc. Harold Pinter comes to mind.
6. There is no doubt..
Ram ,   London   (02.13.07)
this group will in no time hit the "ignorance" waste basket. Along the line, the naive "famous people" amongst them will loose part of their sheen and will act as a magnet to the anti-semites in the UK. Oops!!
7. Jewish Israel-haters in the diaspora
Gary Selikow   (02.13.07)
What gives Jews in Britain, the USA, South africa and Australia etc the right to demonize Israel and the Israeli people. They don't live with the dangers faced by the people of Israel. They are not threatened with anihilation like the Jews of Israel are. It is evil for Jews in New York , Paris, Johannesburg , Sydney or London to show such lack of compassion for their fellow Jews in Israel, and even hostility , cruelly supporting those who are brutally murdering Jewish men , women and children in Israel. What makes these leftist diaspora Jews think that their lives are so much more important than that of Jews in Israel. I think it is high time that we dealt with, and stopped tolerating, Jews who turn on their own people, i.e. Left-wing anti-Zionist, anti-Israel Jews. What these leftist anti-Zionists are practising is a form of racism against Israeli Jews. The fact that they are born Jewish does not excuse this violent and revolting racism. These self-hating Jews do incalculable damage to the struggle of Israel to survive, and they encourage Arab terror. They are completely heartless, lacking any compassion for Jewish women and children murdered by the Palestinian terrorists in Israel. It is time we exposed and isolated these despicable Judenrat Kapos. They should be completely isolated from the Jewish communities in every country in which they are found. How can human beings , let alone Jews, show solidarity with the perpetrators of the murder carried out by the PLO and Hamas and their positions? How can they have anything positive to say of those monsters who can calmly assemble a device designed to mutilate the bodies of children , and destroy countless human lives? I cannot and will not keep company with those who make common cause with modern-day Arab Nazis who shoot a pregnant Jewish woman at point blank range before executing her four terrified small daughters. I shall always shun those who show any acceptance of the perpetrators of such atrocities and will continue to condemmn those whose twisted ideas suggest any equivocation of Israel's self-defence with brutal Arab terror. Seriously , I pray that all Israel-haters and anti-Zionists burn in hell forever.
8. "Jewish" groups
Reality Check ,   BaGolan   (02.13.07)
These are the same "Jews" that became the Kapos in nazi germany. They are supported by the stalwarts of the anti-Semitic community that seeks the destruction of not just israel but of Judaism in its entirety: organizations like the Muslim Brotherhood (that has openly called for the demise of the UK in exchange for a caliphate); the Guardian (spokesmouth for al qaeda and Hezbullah);Livingstone (spokesperson for the neo-Nazi revival);and Ahmadinejad ( who openly calls ALL Jews - including these Kapos - monkeys)
9. IJV can't see through Brit Jew/Israel hate
malcolm   (02.13.07)
They think their friends at work or on campus will like them again if they renounce the State of Israel. Nothing is more pathetic and further from the truth. With British Jew hate coming from ALL sides (Muslim, ye old English Protestant , and Irish Catholic) , British Jews have enough on their plate. But these fools think being a kapo is better than being an inmate. Instead they will be doubly loathed. First as Jews and second as traitors to their people (nobody respects traitors).
10. The sad truth about these people...
Forrest Gump ,   Bubbaland   (02.13.07)
th esad truth about these people is that most of them won't raise their kids as Jews but will force their ideas upon them. Then some of them will probably have neo-nazis or islamists grand children... They are so smart!
11. IJV and treason
Sigfried S. Kuhn ,   Aberdeen   (02.13.07)
Now let me get this straight. Independent "Jewish" Voices admits that there is no organized Jewish community conspiracy to stifle their reprehensible behavior. Yet, these hateful misfits and delusional fools expect people to approve of what they say and listen to this nonsense. How many of these misguided monsters really are attached to the Jewish community or to Judaism? I'm sure its a motley collection of self-haters and misfits who are disconnected from the way the world operates. They think that they can advocate for Israel's destruction, lie and use terms like apartheid and nazi state to describe Israel and still be accepted?
12. Debate?
JPS ,   Efrat   (02.13.07)
The truth appears to be that rather than being the "Independent Jewish Voices", what we have here is in reality the "Fringe Jewish Voices". Rather than being an independent voice of the community, the IJV appears to be a fringe element that espouses extremist views about Israel. Klug's "unpopular views about Israel or Zionism" are more akin to parroting Palestinian propaganda along the lines of trying to smear Israel with the "apartheid" label. An indication of this is the support of Tamimi - who equates the IJV with the goal of wiping Israel off the map. Klug takes the standard line of defense of the vocal minority that somehow he and others are being stifled. However, the fact is that the IJV is a minority because the majority of Jews don't go along with the IJV's extremist views.
13. IJV
Simon ,   London   (02.13.07)
Just because someone is a famous actor or playwright does not make them an expert on the middle east any more than I. therefore my opinion is just as valid as that of the IJV. I and the other 250,000 Jews that make up diverse opinion in the Anglo Jewish community are represented by numerous organisations in the UK from the Jewish Socialists on the Left to Bne Akiva on the right. We are the Jewish community who attend synagogues, are involved with Jewish social, charity, and religious organisations. We the people who help support the community financialy and moraly. The IJV are a group who do not involve themselves in the community are in many cases not even Jewish. They are entitled to their opinons but not correct to present them selves as authentically representing Anglo Jewry. As for Azam Tamimi he used only be able to call members of NK as his Jewish friends I'm glad he can now call actors such as Zoe Wannamaker and Stephen Fry as his new Jewish friends. oh but they are not............................
14. "Jewish"?
La Comparsita ,   London UK   (02.13.07)
Many of this group claim to be Jewish but have nothing to do with a Jewish way of life or indeed with the Jewish community. Many of them do not have Jewish families and thus have no stake in a Jewish future - hence their readiness to attack their own people. It is pathetic that their "Jewishness" manifests itself only in hostility to Israel and to the mainstream Jewish community to whom the Jewish state is central to Judaism
15. They are not representative
lyn ,   UK   (02.13.07)
Anthony Julius is right: the IJV represent no one but themselves. They are a bunch of anti-Zionists who cloak themselves in self-righteous talk about how the Israeli occupation violates human rights yet have nothing to say about rights for Pal women, gays, dissidents, etc. No one they attract the support of genocidal bigots like Azam Tamimi.
16. Kudos to Melanie for putting "useful idiots" in their place
Raymond from DC ,   Washington, DC USA   (02.13.07)
It's no surprise that those "useful idiots", aka the Jewish leftists, could be put in their place by Melanie Phillips. She, author of "Londonistan", knows what she's talking about; they don't. In psychological terms, I suspect they're responding emotionally to the hostility to Jews and Israel that's all around them. Not wanting to be on the "wrong side", they internalize the politically correct nonsense of their fellow "progressives" and the "oppressed" Islamists to avoid feeling shame. They lack the knowledge and cultural self-confidence to respond otherwise. Apropos, a friend of mine caught Melanie at a talk she gave at a synagogue in DC. (Do those in IJV ever set foot in a synagogue?) He tells me it was a terrific talk, very well received.
17. agree with #2
Kelly ,   Philadelphia, US   (02.13.07)
The question I hear over and over again is "Does Israel have the right to exist?" Does the USA, Australia, Canada, have the right to exist? Where is the debate on that? It's pure anti-semitism and people who don't want to confront anti-semitism that are fueling the debate.
18. What they really mean to say:
marya ,   sacramento, USA   (02.13.07)
What these "Independent Jewish Voices in UK really are saying if you cut through the BS is this: STFU you pro-Israel Jews. Do not attempt to debate us, do not speak up for yourselves or for any Jews. Lay low, keep your head down and don't bring any attention to yourselves or us. The IVJ's want to curry favor with the antisemites just like the Judenrats did in WWII. To accuse Jews of "censorship" is really a condemnation of Jews standing up for Jews.
19. The Pope is more Jewish than these people!
Daisy ,   USA   (02.13.07)
Most of these idiots are not really Jewish so who cares what they say?
20. UK Zionists suspect the company they keep
Paul Usiskin ,   London/ UK   (02.13.07)
As Zionists we criticise the Governments of Israel for the wrongs they commit against the Palestinian people. We believe that Jewish human rights should know no boundaries. We believe in a 2 state solution to resolve the Israel-Palestine conflict and that that can only be achieved through negotiation. We do not believe in Israel right or wrong and if the Government of Israel commits a crime, it or its agents should be punished for it. But we do not believe that Israel is solely to blame for the conflict with the Palestinian people and we do not believe that Israel should be penalised by disappearing in a one state solution. We are not convinced that the majority of the supporters of the IJV-many of whose views we know and with which we fundamentally disagree-believe in a 2 state solution or Israel's continued existence as a Jewish state or that Israel and the Palestinians share in the responsibility for what has befallen the Palestinians, however great or small that share may be. Aaron Kliner & Paul Usiskin Peace Now-UK
21. Financed by Arabs, very likely
Kevin G ,   Oregon   (02.13.07)
22. #7 Gary - You're absolutely correct
Kevin G ,   Oregon   (02.13.07)
23. #20
Ram ,   London   (02.13.07)
We hear a lot of criticism of Israel from Peace Now - UK. Where is the vociferous criticism of PA policy, suicide bombings, the constant barrage of qassams, the hate indoctrination, the incitement disseminated through their media etc. etc. Israel is far from perfect but, with an enemy that is openly intent on its destruction it makes it harder for it to be perfect. Ask yourself,; "would Israel miss any opportunity to make peace with any of its neighbours?" The honest answer is NO.
24. IJV /Matter of supply and demand
Dietrich ,   Heidelberg, Germany   (02.13.07)
Jewish individuals or groups of Jewish individuals speaking out against Israel are not a new phenomenon; and they can always expect widespread popularity in the (non-jewish) public. Why is that so? Well, I guess it is simply a matter of supply and demand. Many (non-jewish) people in the Western world are hostile towards Israel, but don't want to appear antisemitic. So, what is more useful than a token Jew (or "Jüdischer Kronzeuge", if someone chances to understand some German) bolstering one's own anti-Israel attitude. This demand is satisfied by groups such as IJV. Regards Dietrich
25. another slap
(02.13.07)
a few days ago you called the LA Jews as cowerds because they refused to be part of such aparthide state and now from England another shock and all from Jews like you ... thanks God they are not Arabs Moslems or Christians otherwise you would call them direct without thinking an anti-simitic people .... with whom you still has no problems ??? what a people !!!
26. 23
Paul Usiskin ,   London/ UK   (02.13.07)
I am keen to know how much of our criticism you are aware of as we have kept a low profile more or less since the 2nd Lebanon War. As to your 2nd point - if you're right on behalf of the entire State, of which I presume that like me you are a citizen, what a shame.
27. Wolf in sheep's clothing
Chaya ,   Bat Yam, Israel   (02.13.07)
They are using their 'jewishness' as a platform for their leftist ieas. They have no Jewish credentials to speak of! If they want to demean Israel, they should do so as leftist fascists - not as Jews!
28. Please everyone read Melanie Phillips book "LONDONISTAN"
Alan ,   SA   (02.13.07)
29. Could IJV start with Investigation into assaults onUK Jews
Myron ,   Golders Green London   (02.13.07)
30. zionist smear merchants
Bill ,   Idaho   (02.14.07)
They try to censor anything bad said about Israel all over the world. Even in the U.S. If you tell the truth about the Isreali goverment you will be labeled an anti-semitic. It is a case of Israeli smear merchants. It's as if Israel has something to hide. This country can't have that thin of skin, can they?
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