Jews were always treated as second class citizens in the Muslim world. Yes, Jews could be tolerated, but only as second-class citizens who knew their place. There was much persecution of Jews in many Muslim countries before Zionism. Jews were never equal to Muslims even in Spain.

Throught the Middle ages and the reneaissance and on into the 19th century Jews were accepted and well-treated by the muslims. In fact many of them fled Europe and were welcomed and protected by the Caliphs and Sultans. Of course they were never quite equal to Muslims, but after all they were a minority and except for theose who lived in former Judea they were guests in Muslim lands and could not expect equality. It was not until after the first World War when the secular leaders of the Muslim world fell and the Arabs turned to their radical religious leaders to protect them against the victorious Euroopeans that muslims began to persecute and murder Jews. And in fact even when Zionism began it did not attract many Jews from the Middle East because they loved the muslim countries that had accepted them and did not leave them until after their neigbors started forcing them out and killing them.

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction." -- Albert Einstein "Intelligent fools" abound, but are there any wise sages? Actually all that's needed are ordinary men and women, with a "touch of genius" and a lot of "courage" to turn the tide within Palestine and Israel, to move the people there in the opposite direction, towards peaceful co-existence. Sadly, Ray's analysis of the situation isn't very optimistic. And the feedback comments are even less so. Perhaps we should be asking the children for help. Unlike adults, they might still have a "touch of genius" and a lot of courage to help bring about peace. May peace prevail on earth ... for the sake of the children.

There are places where Jews were required to wear badges so that Muslims would not touch a Jews by accident and defile themselves. The Church got the idea of badges from the Muslims. This is the sort of thing I am talking about. The reason why Zionism is so threatening to Muslims is not the reasons given. It is that Muslims would have to accept Jews as equals.

a mutual respect between Palestinians and Israelis is needed the hamas members or who voted for Hamas are mostly good people the Hamas leaders are the misguided ones same with the Likud type voters Begin was the extremist he poisoned many Israelis with the false patriotism honesty and integrity are needed in the leaders and in the ordinary citizens

"In signing the accord with Hamas, Abbas has basically signed the death certificate for the Palestinian State." RAY, AS WE JEWS SAY, FROM YOUR MOUTH TO G-D'S EAR!

As if most non-Jewish people in the state of Israel are not treated as second class citizens!

many times ,i like your posting on the feedback more than your article / i think it is more honest / hey ray

In response to your statement: "Your point is trying to equivocate governments based solely on democracy. My argument states that there needs to be GOOD democracy, ie: not supporting terrorism. " Regarding terrorism, there are many Israeli groups, that would like to destroy Muslims, especially Palestinians. What about the JDL, Kahane Chai ? The "Jewish Defense League" which was led by Maier Kahana, is described below: The Federal Bureau of Investigation has described the Jewish Defense League in Congressional testimony as a "violent" and "extremist" group. In a sidebar in its "Terrorism 2000/2001" report, the Bureau said, "The Jewish Defense League has been deemed a right-wing terrorist group." It identified the group in a 1999 terrorism report as the perpetrator of several bombing and arson incidents that took place between 1980 and 1989. In your argument you state: "On the other hand, Terror is TERROR is TERROR. Targetting civilians for the sole purpose of bloodshed no matter what the cause, is terror. The Palestinians are experts in that field alone. The Israelis do not practice terror. We practice counter-terrorism, which is a very different practice altogether. We go out of our way not to injure civilians and non-combattants." Ok, what do you call the actions of JDL, Hagana, Shtern, etc. ? Counter-Terrorism ? In fact, before the late eighties/early 90's, Zionism was deemed as a form of racism/terrorism. Is this not fact ? These groups are much more powerful than HAMAS. But these groups are never talked about. Why are they not called terrorists? I mean, they are looking for the destruction of Arabs.... What action would you call what they are doing ? Peace ? There needs to be a forum, where just the parties involved, finally come to an understanding. You can do a One State Solution/ Two State Solution, unify Hamas/Fatah parties, but you will never acheive peace, until both parties realize that there needs to be concessions made. I mean, this argument can go on infinitely. But Israelis must realize that Palestine is not the only side with maladies. Thanks for your time, Sunny

you speak of some FBI testimony to Congress. Well for now lets say it is true! Also the JDL committed "several acts of bombing and arson incidents that took place between 1980 - 1989." Now during that same time period how many attacks were launched against Israel. Lets see about 10,000!!! WOW!!! Good comparision very balanced. The JDL was NOT state sponsored . The Palestinian attacks WERE state sponsored. So I'll let the readers decide. Hagana & the Stern groups operated what 50 or 60 years ago now that's reaching BIG TIME. Listen I don't know what specific attacks your talking about, BUT I will condemn them if you condemn all the terrorism ( car bombing, suicide attacks, rocket attacks, etc. ) that the Palestians perpetrate on almost a daily basis. Zionism was deemed racism in 1975 by the UN. This was part of the USA/Soviet cold war. In 1991 it was repealed by the General Assembly. So now we catch Sunny in a OBVIOUS distortion. SUNNY WROTE " In fact, before the late eighties/early 90's Zionism was deemed as a form of racism/terrorism. Is this not a fact ? " Well NO it is NOT a FACT it is a UNTRUE statement made with the intent to DECEIVE. The facts are stated above with one small error Sunny wrote " racism/terrorism ". The UN resolution only said racism. Hey who counting anyway!!! Later, and have a great day. MARK/Georgia

Half the problems in this world are caused by adults acting like children. As far as children acting like adults, ever read "Lord of the Flies?" By the way, there is plenty of recent research litterally showing that the part of the brain involved in judgement and evaluation is not even fully functional till the early 20's. They just think how much experience and training it must get just to function properly in the real world. Yea, just as the children. You haven't seen any playground fights latey have you.

In response to your comments. Yes, I was off by a decade, however, I was relating these events to the time that the language was changed in the 90's, and for that I do apologize. To your point of terrorism, is terrorism not terrorism despite who it is sponsored by ? My point, is that we want to only point out that Palestinians are the only perpetrators of terrorism. Why can't we point out what both sides are doing. I have to say, that those arguing the side of Israel, can always have an answer for everything. A reason for this or that, kind of like Tit-for-Tat. I was merely pointing out that terrorism has existed on both sides of this since at least 1948. By the way, I, in no way, support any kind of terrorism. In fact, to your reauest, I whole heartedly condemn any sort of Terrorism. And yes, these acts have been commited by the Palestinians, but Israel and it's supporters need to take some responsibility at the same time. Isrealis are not the only victims in this conflict. Thank you for guiding me in the right direction. Peace to all. Sunny

There is a difference between being CHILDISH immature adults and children who haven't been totally conditioned and brainwashed by their parents, teachers and society. Unfortunately, these CHILDISH adults provide the children with role models. Yep, they teach how to discriminate and hate those who aren't like them by just modelling that behaviour for the children. Young children don't care if their playmate is of a different race or colour. They have to LEARN that. Unfortunately, the children at the playground are trying to be like adults! Great education and child rearing we have, eh! But if you discuss peace with children who haven't been totally programmed, we can get CHILD-LIKE answers and solutions that can be modified by adults who have the brains AND the moral sense to bring about real peace, not just absence of war, but peace that comes from an absence of FEAR. There was a project at NASA where they used children's creative ideas to develop new ideas that wouldn't have occurred to the scientists. Children's brains and hearts, I'd add, are open to seeing the world in a fresh way. Also we have a lot to learn from the "child-like" adults who "suffer" from mental handicaps. Jean Vanier, founder of the L'Arche centres around the world has discussed how the mentally handicapped have taught him and can teach us about the value of sharing, acceptance and joy.

Ask the Palestinian wannabee suicide bombers still in their diapers.

for your response. I'm not not sure what you meant by "off by a decade...language of the 90's". I do believe terror is terror. But I don't agree with your comparision of 50-60 year old Israeli groups (Stern & Hagana) that have been defunct half a century. That was reaching. But make no mistake some of their actions were terrorism toward the British. I don't, and Palestinian Jews rejected their actions. The JDL you stated were involved in several acts of bombing and arson according to the FBI. I have not read that, but lets say it is true . I reject that action and will, when I learn more about it call it terrorism if it applies. My point was ( several usually means 3 or 4 ) and that Arab Palestinians using ( suicide bombers,car bombs, rocket attacks, sniper assaults on dark roads ect.) commited 10,000 attacks over the same period. Plus the Pals were state sponsored and the JDL was not and it would NOT surprise me if people went to jail in the JDL for commiting such an act. While the Arabs dance in the street when they kill children. So yes both may be terrorism but there is a difference I hope you will at least acknowledge that. Thanks it good to speak with someone willing to discuss these issues in a calm manner. Take Care Mark

Dear Arja, Sticks and stone can break your bones, but blind rationalization will certainly kill you. Did you notice I refered to some real, accepted hard science research? Your stuff sounds like it comes from a propaganda course out of North Korea and the rest from a Philosophy course on mental masturbation. I'll take 10,000,000 million Mexicans for everyone of you they let come in and teach in this country. Don't we have enough wacked out lefty, liberal sbrainwashing our college aged kids as it is. I thought you can't get a job in the US unless you can't find a qualified, unqualified American to fill the spot. Who the heck was asleep at the Department of Immigration. They probably fell asleep because they had to take a night school course from a liberal professor, and the hangover of bordem took more than a week to sleep off. I tell you, let's all hope for plenty of global warming to defrost Canada so there will plenty of room for them to take all of our loney liberals. Then we can turn the whole country into one big mutual admiration society of professional loathers of everything but their beloved marijui.ana (ayeee, it must be legal since Canadian judges look the other way). Maybe enough second had pot smoke can quiet the country down.

And after the children come up with fresh ideas, they turn them over to experienced adults who decide if they are workable, practicle, and feasible. Just try getting a kid to even understand the definitions of these three terms. Oh, you know that NASA does neat stuff with kids so they will feel positive towards future space program funding. Adults come up with plenty of fresh ideas also. Much of it is found in entrepreneurship. Much of it is very risky, but the most needed often succeeds. The idea of money needed for any idea eludes all but the brightest kids.

Stewart, I have NO interest in living or teaching in the USA. I oppose your country's support of Israel's oppression of Palestinians, its occupation of Iraq and planned attack of Iran. I find it hard enough to travel and visit your police state of a country, but I do so because some of my dearest friends are US citizens living in the USA. Those trips across the border do remind me that the ordinary people in the USA are very kind and friendly, though IGNORANT of their country's repugnant role in the world affairs at the present moment and for the last hundred years. Similarly, I figure that ordinary Israelis are generally nice people too while some of their government's actions are reprehensible. While the USA purported to bring freedom and democracy, they actually brought instability, dictatorships and oppression to the countries where they intervened. But it does keep many corporations very happy as they get richer on the backs of all those poor people whom the USA tried to "help." The USA has been building a military global empire with over 700 military bases around the world. It's despicable. The level of knowledge .... really lack of knowledge......regarding the activities by your government is not a surprise to me because your neo-con leaders are the students of Leo Strauss, the teacher of the philosophy of DECEPTION. Is this the philosophy you subscribe to? Personally, I prefer more humanistic and spiritual philosophies, like, the ones you probably find so disgusting. But I like philosophies that endorse human rights and social justice. PS I resist the urge to correct your English (is that what YOUR teachers have taught you in the USA?); for example,. "exceptable" for "acceptable" or putting an apostrophe in "ideas's" in your feedback at #47. But to point out these errors would be nit-picky of me and I'm just not that mean-spirited...... usually. None of us is perfect, eh?! May peace prevail on earth!

Boy it didn't take much. No wonder they keep you locked in a University. I guess you never hear of Chinese or Russian imperialism. Just ask the Indians and others in Southeast Asia. They can tell you who the real bullies of the world are. Or better yet, ask the Tibetins . . . if you can find any not kill by the Hans. Funny, when the U.S. goes somewhere, we try to leave. We also try to keep the Chinese and Russians out. I guess you'd prefer them. I don't know where the "hollier than thou" comes from. Thank God the Aussies really appreciate freedom and have been at our sides ever since. They know what the world would be like if they did get involved. The imperial (not modern) Japanese almost taught them otherwize. Strange how a country that could be so isolated chooses to get involved. I wonder what the Canadians would do if they ever had to defend themselves? Your politician spew anti Americanism because it's cool, popular, and distracting. You just fell for the propaganda. At least you can get a good Cuban cigar in Canada . Hey, could I sign you up for 4 days and 3 nights in Venezuela compliments of Cesar Chavez with a stop over in Cuba? Oh, all these friendly Americans you speek about. Do you realize they are the US government? American's vote their interests and pocket books like everyone else. Most Americans, by the accounting of any reputable polls, supportted and support what happened and what we are trying to do. We are very disappointed it has not worked out better yet, but one can't give up. Maybe they should send all young Canadians on foriegn study in Australia. Fosters seems alot safer than what they smoke above 59-40. P.S. If you like my grammer for the little time I have to spend on this nonsense, then hire me a copy editor, BUT don't impune my beloved teachers particularly my second grade teacher whose probably withering away on a meger pension after having worked her little heart out trying to save all us little ones ... and then pawned guys like me off on the science and math teachers. Some of us actually invented spelling and grammer checkers, others just try to find where they hide them in this confounded web based software ...

Hey, Stewart, thanks for the trip offer :-) I liked my ten day visit to Venezuela, mind you it was before Chavez. Many of my friends have been to Cuba and LOVE IT! My American friend chooses Bermuda for our trips because he doesn't feel free to go to Cuba, though I tell him, Cuba won't stamp his passport. I also enjoyed travelling on Russian ships and visiting Leningrad (eons ago... time flies). The Russians were friendly too. People are people. Some aren't so nice, most are. I suggest you watch The Power of Community: How Cuba Survived Peak Oil - it's the story of how Cuba rebuilt its quality of life following the collapse of cheap oil supplied by the former Soviet Union. Communities pulled together and created solutions and ultimately thrived in spite of their decreased dependence on imported energy. Communities made decisions about their lives - hmmm sounds pretty democratic to me - real grassroots democracy. There's more to democracy than voting. Poor Gore got cheated out of his presidency. Corruption in government seems to be the rule rather than the exception, be it Israel, USA, Canada, Russian, China... or even the Palestinian Territories. Our governments need to be transformed! I just hope that the Palestinians could start working together in their communities like the Cubans did. They try but then they have many obstacles - like apartheid-like living conditions and total control of their lives by Israel.

I hear many homes in Cuba have a sun roof or moon roof which is no roof at all. What luxury! How about a one way ticket to Brazil. You know: where all the nuts come from. Next time you get your brain washed, please ask for the "low suds" soap. We're trying to clean up our rivers here. Oh, and stop trying to get an apointment with Kim Young Ills hairdresser. I heard she's been secretly trying to leave the country a seek asylum in the U.S. Gore hires Richard J. Daily's son and he had the election stolen from him? Shows how much you know about American politics. I bet you still think the supreme court decision on it was 5 to 4 rather than I think 7 to 2. Boy are students going to feel cheated when find out what the truth is ... if they don't all get washed overboard on one of your Luxury Russian frieghter cruises to the last vestiges of the worlds living memorial to the most failure prone economic system in history. Yes, it is so great they have to run it with a dictator just to keep everyone from leaving and spreading the success. Stop smoking what ever it is. Was your Dad a hippy, draft dodger from the 60's whose idea of a pinup girl was Jane Fonda stradling a N. Vietnamese artilliary piece. You know what happened in S.E. Asia after we left? One great example was the killing fields in Cambodia. As was once said, "The people are in love with the poets, the poets in love with the communists, and the communists in love with themselves!"

Have you checked how you've been brainwashed? Or do you care? You're probably part of the web of deceit, the ones who spread lies on purpose to keep the US masses ignorant of what their government is doing in their name, cause if they really really knew, I bet those nice, kind, friendly people would object!

When I went to school 30 some years ago to to Washington U. in St. Louis, I was very lucky to get the education I did. Partly because of the the fact they paid for most all of it, but most certainly because of the quality and integrity of the the professors, both liberal and conservative. Everyone comes with a bias. The most one can ask is that he or she be honest about it and make every attempt to be balanced if he or she is reporting or teaching. We had some of the best from some of the best think tanks. They new and respected the understood rules if they wanted to teach at this school. Students seldom felt afraid to voice their opinions for fear of their grades. Sadly that is not the situation at most American universities today. Ward Churchill from I think U of Colorodo or Colorodo state has openly stated that it is his job to indoctrinate and that he looks for research to support his beliefs. Another "great liberal" professor at Emory had to admit he falsified much of his report on guns in American history done for the anti gun loby. Other scholars found his research non existent or saying the oposite when fully examined. He had to resign. The list goes on of liberals who love the "ends justifies the means" approach when it comes to their beliefs. They also love to indoctrinate students held hostage. The vast majority of Americans are luckier and smarter even if they didn't get the education I got. They can listen to or read liberal or conservative sources: NPR, Mainstream Media, Fox News, or radio talk shows. Curiously with this vast choice, they overwhelmingly choose Fox and conservative talk radio. No one is forcing them. Brain washing and indoctrination is forced. They have every choice in the world. SO WHO'S INTENT ON BRAINWASHING WHO?

What you wrote about Canadians (their marijuana use and laws) demonstrates your ignorance. Did you learn that from American media - Fox? One of the biggest ways to distort the news is through omission of pertinent facts - lies of omission. Distorted "news" - spin! Do you ever ask what Fox leaves unreported? The elite who pull the strings don't want the schmucks to know what's REALLY going on. There's too much profit for them in discord and war. War is a racket and always has been. Just read Major General Smedley Butler. Time to prepare for peace, to imagine harmonious co-existence, to talk together about ways to bring about peace. Let the ordinary citizens, the women and the children lead the way and show the politicians how it can be done -- refuse to be enemies.

sou you are not Tania Reinhardt