Opinion  Noah Klieger
World's latent anti-Semitism
Noah Klieger
Published: 20.02.07, 17:33
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61. #58
Critical Thinker ,   Canada   (02.21.07)
"First, Jew is not a religion - it's a nationality or ethnicity" Well, if I can convert to Judaism and then be a Jew who can move to Israel, there IS a religious component to being a Jew. My ethnicity would not change by this religious conversion, so I'd be accepted in Israel based on my RELIGION! But don't worry, I'm not interested in converting to Judaism or Islam or Christianity.
62. #59, But you avoid answering the obvious.
AK   (02.21.07)
I don't have to guess. You're quite transparent. And incidently, did you check out the Leftist tree uprooting thing?
63. Michael
charles ,   petach tikva   (02.21.07)
We are not the underdog anymore , you wrote . You are right , and that's just why we have lost some , or many sympathy in the world . They like Jews , as long Jews are underdogs . But your critics are not only against Israeli policies in Judea Samaria , you are against everything Jewsh , beginning with brith Mila . So stop to call yourself Jewish or Israeli . You are anti Jewish , anti Israeli , you don't belong tho the Jewish or Israeli people anymore [ if you once belonged ]
64. I agree, but
David ,   Montreal   (02.22.07)
You left out one aspect of the problem in your article: Israel's and Zionism's cause is just, Arab propaganda, notwithstanding. Am Yisrael Chai!
65. Israel Policies = biggest cause of anti-semitism
ex-pat ,   USA   (02.22.07)
You talk to people even in "friendly" western countries and they tell you point blank what's on their mind.
66. Anti-Zionsim's goals
Gary Selikow   (02.21.07)
The goal of all anti-Zionists is to destroy the Jews of Israel, down to the last child. Therefore the anti-Zionists must be fought like the Nazis they are. And stop all this obfuscation and saying that anti-Zionsim is different to anti-Semitism
67. God Bless you Gary #14
Margaret   (02.21.07)
I loved your post. I also read your articles on the web. I agree 100 percent with everything you say. You take the words right out of my mouth or should I say my heart! I especially moved by your poem "in loving memory of Danielle Sheffi "and the other Jewish babies and little children murdered by cruel Arab terrorists. I just wish you would write more articles. Jews and people who want to know truth really need someone like you,a voice of truth and decency today when so many gullible,naive,yet sadly wellmeaning people are being mislead to support the Palestinians by the likes of Jew haters like Jimmy Carter, the ISM or people who call themselves Jews like Gideon Levy and Amira's Huss of Haaretz,but who by their own posionous words of hate prove themselves to be enemies of the Jewish people.
68. Charles, you're wrong --Israel is an underdog.
AK   (02.22.07)
A valiant little country fighting for its survival against barbarian hordes. Nothing is really changed. Clever and malevolent people can invent terms like 'greater Israel' but the fact remains that Israel is tiny, vulnerable nation with enemies without and within and very few friends (most of whom Israeli Jews find strange to accept as such.). Yes, Israeli Army could defeat Arab Armies, for now, if permitted, but that is a mute point, since Israel is never permitted to defeat her enemies. The issue of requiring a permission to defend herself makes Israel an underdog. The awful truth is that Israel has no oil, no mineral recourses, no heavy industry to make her completely self reliant. The US and the EU can cut off Israel’s lifelines any time they so choose, and they use it as blackmail. Israel has no largesse of oil wealth to distribute to the willing takers; the Arabs have both, oil and an immense wealth. They can and they do buy politicians, PR firms, powerful law firms, lobbyists, the press and finally universities. Except for mindless, brainwashed willing dupes, nobody buys the 'Palestinian' narrative, unless they see a pot of gold waiting for them as a reward, in one form or another. This power of black gold is so immense that few actually challenge the changes it imposes on our Western societies and most willingly accept self censorship and instead prefer to zero in on an easy target -- an alleged all-powerful Jewish lobby. Michael is a fraud. Whether a Jew or not, he trolls here on behalf of his organization, probably.
69. Ak
charles ,   petach tikva   (02.21.07)
Just as this guy named michael is one sided , your national news is also , but on the opposite side . He is telling stories , one sided , your "news source" does the same . Both of you remember me the coverage of the 82 Libanon war . In a news broadcast at 19h30 , an Israeli officer was interviewed . What do you think about this war ? I was opposed , answered the officer . At the 20.00 hour news of the French TV , same interview : i was opposed , but when i saw the amount of ammunition and weapons the PLO had accumulated there , i changed my mind . The 19h30 news did not lie , he was opposed , but they gave a distorted interview . And that's why so many people in the world , and bipedes as this michael [ who calls himself a Jew ! how does he dare ] hate this democratic country . Beside this , this bipede hates everything Jewish , beginning with Brith Mila .
70. If only "Antizionist",why are they assaultingJews allover EU
Alan ,   SA   (02.22.07)
71. no,29
toni ,   sabme   (02.22.07)
that is to good to follow? no really? to be ?or not to be? either your pride , or your prejudice just got involved. your involvement is too good to be true.
72. #65, And what was the cause of anti semitism in 1939?
Ken ,   Ramat Ilan   (02.22.07)
You claim Israel causes anti semitism. Yet anti semitism existed BEFORE Israel even came into being. Jew haters will always find an excuse to hate us -- It really is as simple as that.
73. Antizionism is antisemitism
Margaret   (02.22.07)
Because? because of many reasons! For one thing,the Arab nations are clearly the aggressors in the mideast. When the UN partioned Palestine they are the ones who vetoed against the Jewish nation. The Arab states are the ones who started all the wars. They are also the ones who threatened and still threaten to destroy the nation of Israel and murder it's inhabitants. One of the Arab leaders at the time of the 1948 war proclaimed "This will be a war of extermination a montenmous massacre". Everytime a bombing or other act of mass murder occurs in Israel no Arab leader ever really condemns the murders, those who give slight condemnation only do so to appease and look politcally correct to Western media. And besides many in the Arab streets support and sadly even celebrate these cruel murders. After the bombing of Sbarro Pizzeria in 2001,mobs of Arab youth took to the streets to celebrate the "martyr" who perpertated the carnage. A few months after the slaughter an Arab high school in the West Bank, reenacted the massacre in a play in which the barbaric slaugher was actually celebrated and the victims were taunted and dehumanized. After a young Jewish mother and her 2 little boys were brutally gunned down by Arab terrorist who broke into their home. The whole town were the killer resided held a memorial service in which the heartless murderer was honored and celebrated. A similiar memorial service was held for 2 murderers who brutally gunned down a pregnant Jewish mother and her 4 little daughters in their car. The hatred many Arab and Palestinians feel for Israelis and Jews in general begs the minds description. It doesn't take too much of a genius to figure the people who support them would hold similiar opinions.
74. charles, it is not 'my national news' it's yours.
AK   (02.22.07)
That is if you refer to Arutz Sheva. My national news never attaches names to any Israeli Jewish victims, only to the Arabs. Nor is 'my national news' preoccupied with your country's survival. As a matter of fact, 'my national news,' when listing innocent civilian victims of terrorism, never includes Israeli victims in those numbers. My national news is on the same page as Michael, the ISM troll.
75. Ak
charles ,   petach tikva   (02.22.07)
I said your national news because in your # 59 you gave the site . This site has the same extreme views as arutz sheva . their extremists views are certainly not mine . In my eyes Israel , since the six days war , is no more considered an underdog by most western countries , and even we don't have oil or other natural ressources , we have the brains to produce HI Tec products the developped world needs . We have the brains who produce biomedical instruments the whole world uses . And even , not so necessary , we are the second world exporter of roses all those people offer to their lovers .
76. Thank you for your kind words Margaret
Gary Selikow   (02.22.07)
Let me also just add that Arabs were attacking and murdering Jews in the Land of Israel, long before 1948. The meaning of Israel is clear. The Jew has experienced too much death, and a portion of the Jewish people decided that they would die quietly no more (especially after Hitler's Holocaust). So it is: and no argument, no clever political talk, no logic and no parading of right and wrong can change this fact.The Jews returned to Israel because it was their ancient land. From 1810 onwards, Jews in the Land of Israel have been murdered by Arabs. The pious Jews of Safed, who would raise no hand in their defense, were robbed and murdered and burned out again and again by Arabs - as where the Jews in Jerusalem and Tiberias. Bedouin Arabs passed through Land of Israel at will-and robbed and killed Jews for profit. In the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, Arab feudal lords in the Land of Israel organized pogroms precisely as the Tsar had organized pogroms. In 1920 Jews where massacred by Arabs in Jerusalem, in 1921 in Jaffa and in 1929 in Hebron. Thousands of Jews where murdered in 1936 to 1939 in the Nazi inspired Arab Revolt. Since 1948 Arabs have launched wars against Israel to try to drive Jews into the sea and since Arafat launched the latest war in 2000, after rejecting a peace deal, thousands of Jewish men women and children have died in Israel by bomb, bullet and knife. Jews will never again be put into a position where they can be subjected to another Holocaust (particularly in the ancient Jewish homeland) Never again! Long live the Jewish State of Israel
77. #54, AK
Abdullah ,   EuMe   (02.22.07)
I am not qualified to argue for or against the torah basis of any form of "zionism". For this you need to refer to rabbinic sources such as those mentioned by #4 to get the non-zionist relgious view or to leading halachic authorities such as Rav Mordechai Eliyahu on the religious "zionist" side. My point is that certain aspects of israel's current policies at the every least give the impression of injustice. Since injustice is not part of the torah and since following torah should perfect the individual and the community, I cannot link this injustice to judaism or jewish tradition. There must be unjewish influence somewhere. I'd rather that people put the blame on zionism than on judaism. And that israeli policy today or any current ideological fad be separated from judaism. B'cos in the end ideologies fall out of favor and are replacable. But torah judaism is the heart of the jewish identity and ireplaceable. If you connect judaism with the unjust then as jewish society strives for the just it might be tempted to wrongly blame judaism for past errors and try to move away from it. This is why some torah respecting jews who believe that so long as torah remains with the jewish people there is hope, would rather put the blame for any israeli policy that seems unfair on the zionist ideology b’cos injustice has nothing to do with Judaism or jewish tradition. However, given the advice of #4, I think it is better for jews not to support non-jewish anti-zionists many of whom are likely to be anti-semites. That is something we can all agree on. Regarding justice. Israeli policy can be improved towards the arab population that it controls. Future issues such as borders, a palistinian state, population transfer, "settlements", hamas "recognising" Israel, a theocracuy etc., can be addressed at a later time, if necessary. At the present, it is important that arabs be they israeli citizens or palistinian citizens feel that their interests are represented in the israeli govt. And it is the responsibility of the israeli govt. to do this, since it is the sovereign authority, then it must also represent them for justice to be served. One cannot control their lives on the one hand and "disengage" from humanitarian responsibility towards them on the other. It is not about "settlements" or borders, it is about helping improve the lives of all people under israel's control. This is not inconsistent with Israel defending its Jewish population. An interim constitution might help to help safeguard the rights of all sectors in the jewish community and the arab sector. And to ensure Jewish self-determination is not compromised. It does not have to be a democracy, since that clearly cannot go hand in hand with jewish self-determination and arab self-determination, at present. Democracy is not good for all situations. But a system that ensures all sectors are represented and have an equitable share in the economic and social benefits, as well as responsibility towards the common economy, and devoid of bigotry is sufficient and just. The torah teaches where there is justice there is peace.
78. What about Jewish critics?
Rasmus ,   Santiago de Chile   (02.22.07)
You would not find as much as 1 percent backing in Europe for things like desecration of Jewish cemeteries, and Europe is full of prominent Jews in important positions who are have a strong voice in the public debate and who hold diverse views, including some views critical of Israeli policies. What about them, are they just anti-Semites too?
79. Abdullah, today Arab sit in Israels Knesset, how many Jews
AK   (02.22.07)
are in your country's government? How many Christians, Buddhists, Hindus? How many new synagogues have been built? You are welcome to accept your Arab brethren in your country, as Jews have taken in Jews from around the world, including all Arab countries. It is the equitable thing to do.
80. #45 AK
Sunny ,   Washington, DC   (02.22.07)
In your statement alone you leave yourself wide open to criticism. 1. Deny the nation a right to self determination..... What is Israel doing to the Occupied Territories of Palestine ? Do they have the right to Self Determination ? The last I checked, they voted on the regime they wanted, yet it was rejected and condemned by Israelies. This is fact, not my opinion. So basically, from your statement, Israel is denying the Palestinians the right to exist. Right ? I mean i'm only going by your statement. Not out of context, and no spin. 2. Anti-Zionism=Anti-Semitism. Well, that's an opinion shared by many, i'm sure. However, as we all know, or may not know, Arabs are Semitic people. So, by your statement, any one who is Anti-Semitic, is not only Anti-Jew but anti-Arab ? Then this makes Abdullah an anti-arab as well. I mean, by your statements, this is what I understand.... Finally, I ask, if being Anti-Zionist=Anti-Jew=Anti-Arab, does this then mean, by the old algebraic commutative property, that Anti-Zionism = Anti-Arabic ? And that not only does all the Arab/Muslim not only hate Jews, but themselves as well ? You all be the judges..... And, before you start to call me names, i'm only re-iterating the facts stated by AK.
81. Gary.....
Sunny ,   Washington, DC   (02.22.07)
Regarding your Comment: As Judea Peal puts it : "As a form of racism, anti-Zionism is worse than anti-Semitism. It targets the most vulnerable part of the Jewish people, namely, the people of Israel, who rely on the sovereignty of their state for physical safety, national identity and personal dignity. To put it more bluntly, anti-Zionism condemns 5 million human beings, mostly refugees or children of refugees, to eternal statelessness, traumatized by historical images of persecution and genocide. " I have one question..... What has Israel done to the population that was there before 1948 ?
82. Sunny, here we go again ! #80 & 81
Mark ,   Georgia, USA   (02.23.07)
Lets start with your response to #80 AK. 1) Israel is NOT doing that ( to deny the Pals a nation ) when Israel was formed like all Arab nations that surround it, it was to be partitioned in 1948. Remember the Arabs turned it down and attacked Israel, they lost!!! If they had accepted their country would now be 60 years old. Now Israel is trying give the Pals what they could had 60 years ago, and they continue with terror attacks which I'm sure will condemn in your next post, right ? 2) In europe around 1885 the term used was Jew-Hate or Jew-Hatred, science was in vogue and Wilhelm Marr coined a new word ( Anti-Semtic ) it came from Shem from the bible. It is very easy to Google. The term was a replacement for Jew-Hate. This is a absolute fact, please look it up. The term Antisemtic or Anti-Semtic has always referred to Jewish people. I don't know whether your ignorant ( lack of knowledge ) or sarcastic. Frankly, it is the childish rant of antisemtic people which I thought you were not. But, maybe I was wrong ? Your glib remarks Anti-Zionism=Anti-Arabic is sacastic and dismissive of the real persecution the Jewish people have suffered thoughout history. Prior to 1948 : Jews, Arabs and Christians all lived there. You might be surprised to know that in 1844 when the region was run by the Ottoman Empire a census was conducted in Jerusalem which showed the population to be ( apoxx. 7500 Jews and 5500 Arabs). I don't know where you get your infomation from but it is lacking. In conclusion when approached by a student at Harvard in 1968 who attacked Zionism, Dr Martin Luther King responded : " When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. your talking anti-semitism ". Thanks and have a great day Mark, Y'all come back now
83. Mark
Sunny ,   Washington, DC   (02.23.07)
I posted back a little earlier, not completely reading your comment: "I don't know whether your ignorant ( lack of knowledge ) or sarcastic." Of course i was being sarcastic. My point was that Semitic People, (as found thru the research I have done) are people that spoke semitic languages, i.e. Aramaic, Amharic, Hebrew and Arabic. IS that not correct ? In fact, In Genesis 10:21-31 Shem is described as the father of Aram, Asshur, and others: the Biblical ancestors of the Arabs, Aramaeans, Assyrians, Babylonians, Chaldeans, Sabaeans, and Hebrews, etc., So that is where I was getting my information from. Maybe I am wrong here ? By the way, i condemn any form of Anti-Semitism.... and terrorism, as you well know. If i sounded brash or harsh in my last posting, i was only trying to make the point, that Arabs are Semitic people as well as Jews. Well, i did post a longer talk back this morning, but i must have said something offensive, though I don't think i said anything i wouldn't normally say. I hope that clears it up for you. Have a good weekend. I'll look for you on the next highly contested Opinion. And as always, I have learnd from you. Peace to all People. Sunny
84. Good Morning Mark !
Sunny ,   Washington, DC   (02.23.07)
I have not stated opinion here. I just responded with fact. Are the Arabs not Semitic people as well ? I'm not dismissing anti-semitism. In fact, I state that it exists, even as I sit and listen to people, i know it exists. Also, i'm not disputing your facts about the population in Jerusalem. However, my question is, does Zionism=Judaism ? Aren't there many Jews opposed to Zionism ? Listen, I don't want to debate your facts. I don't want to debate the right of Jews to exist peacefully. Without prejudice. However, I think that what many people miss, is that the Arabs are victims in this conflic, just as much as the Jews. Zionism was the end of a Palestine land, in what was supposed to be, accodring to the Balfouor Doctrine, "A Jewish Homeland in Palestine" Many argue that there were no Palestinians, or they didn't exist as a people or nation. But obviously they did exist, I mean why was that language included ? I am in no way, an expert on this topic. I am learning, and willing to learn more. However, I would like to peel away the emotions, and just look at the plain facts. I know there is alot of complexity and emotion in this conflict, and I don't propose to know any answer. Anyway, I better get back to work. I look forward to your reply and wisdom. Sunny
85. Anti-semitism
chaim ,   United States   (02.24.07)
Those who don't get it never will. Anti-Semitism is real. All of you who have their excuses handy are the problem. Hate is taught. It is the mothers milk of a weak mind. All those that fault Israel at the drop of a hat can never look themselves in the mirror to find fault. Seek the truth, learn history, find the answers and stop regurgitating the vile and stupid nonsense that passes for intellect. Blameing Jews or Israel will not solve any of your problems. It only keeps you from your humanity.
86. IT'S NOT 'ANTI-SEMITISM'. IT'S JEW-HATRED
Jake   (02.25.07)
The term 'anti-Semitic' was invented in Germany - by Jew-haters. Why commemmorate these jerks? Call a spade a spade...it's Jew-hatred, Judeophobia, anti-Jewishness, etc.
87. Daniel van Dalen, betraying Jewish sovereignty in Israel
Jake   (02.25.07)
is betraying the Jewish people. You want to talk about Torah sages? Remember how the Pharisees betrayed the Hashmonean Jewish kingdom by bringing in invaders to Jerusalem...the Seleucid Syrians, later the forces of Pompey. All orchestrated by the Pharisee 'sages'. Remember what King Alexander Yannai was forced to do to bring them to heal?
88. 1.5 billion Muslims, that's not what a Jew is
Jake   (02.25.07)
A Jew is first and foremost someone who belongs to the Jewish people, the Jewish nation. It is not someone who simply has a persuasion to believe in the Judaic religion. I think you understand this point fully well, but you choose to ignore it.
89. Sunny, back at yea !!
Mark ,   Georgia, USA   (02.26.07)
Does Zionism=Juudaism? The short answer is no it does not. Zionism was/is simply the the right of the Jewish people to return to their beloved homeland. Nothing more or less, if fact many non-Jewish did and do believe the same. This included the Arabs. On March 3, 1919 Emir Faisal in a letter to Harvard law professor and future Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter wrote " The Arabs, especially the educated among us, look with deepest sympathy on the Zionist movement...We will wish the Jews a hearty welcome home...We are working together for a reformed and revised Near East and our two movements complete one another. The Jewish movement is nationalist and not imperialist. And there is room in Syria for us both. Indeed, I think that neither can be a real success without the other. " So I think you can see that it was simply a beleif that the Jewish people return to their homeland and even Emir Faisal states " we will wish the Jews a Heaty Welcome Home " meaning " welcome back. " consider this is where you always lived it about you come back. The people who argue there were no Palestinians are refering to what Emir Faisal talks about which is Syria. All land from modern Syria, Lebonon, Israel and Jordon were considered part of a greater Syria. All were thought to be Arabs ( Muslims, Jewish or Chistians ) . There never was a country called Palestine although all people who lived there did have passports that said Palestine. The only recognised country that has ever existed there is in fact, biblical Israel and modern day Israel. Now I do beleive that there will be a country by that name soon. Plus you confuse the term Palestine with Arabs, when in fact it was used in a different context. I got to run hope you had a great Sunday. Mark from Atlanta
90. Uke Bashing
blackminorca   (03.17.07)
Wow - Where is that bit of data from, the Kremlin? Scratch a Uke basher and one usually finds a Leftist Russophile - that fine culture that killed more Jews than Hitler and one that starved more Ukrainians than all combat deaths in WWI. Here are the facts. Leave Ukraine alone - it has suffered enough at the hands of the left. http://www.njjewishnews.com/njjn.com/050406/mwElectionMonitor.html
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