Arafat's Fatah or Yassin's Hamas?

One of the problems of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is that way too much people are generous with other people's patrimony (the original saying cannot be published here). Not only in the USA, but in Italy too you may easily find supporters of either side who propose extremistic goals and actions which disappoint the people who come from the "Holy Land" and try to find a non-cruel (if not entirely peaceful) solution to the issue. These extremists are more interested in destroying the party they hate than in bringing peace to the party they allegedly support. These people should be isolated; films like "West Bank Story" and performances like "IPC Tour" may be useful to defuse the nastiest aspects of the conflict. Take care and keep carrying out your mission.

Ray, did you ever try to approach some of the settlements about this? Not the hilltop caravan loonies the media loves to focus on, but the real places where hundreds and thousands of many well-adjusted people live and work -- many of whom moved there to escape the hustle and bustle of urban Jerusalem. Try it... You might be surprised with the response. And let's face it, these are the people you really need to reach out to, not the hipsters in Tel Aviv. And I assure you that security won't be an issue... As far as the Palestinians not being receptive because they're under military occupation... Perhaps its their self-fed diet of hate and destruction that keeps many from being able to appreciate your humor? Ironically, i think that military occupation is the only thing that would keep you from being killed were you to perform in some of those areas. Food for thought. Nevertheless, I like the idea of this roving comedy troupe. The Middle East would be infinitely better off if more people had a sense of humor. I don't think it's coincidental that fanatics never have a sense of humor (laughing at dead Jews or Arabs doesn't count). Good luck with it, but please try not to fall into your comfortable assumptions about who would be receptive and why you may or may not be able to attract an audience in this, that or the other place.

way too much money is being made by maintaining the status quo, Im sure Mr Nasrallah's bank account is a bulging as Abramoff and others.

Palestinians didnt ask Hamas to rewrite their charter. Granted, I have only read English translations, but how can you make peace with Hamas who advocates killing Jews in their Charter? This isnt about right or wrong. Thats pure hate. Maybe most Palestinians dont feel that way, but they also didnt ask Hamas to rewrite the Charter. I know most people in Germany were not Nazis, but they voted for the Nazis and didnt do anything against it. When with Palestinians tell their leaders they are wrong? I have been waiting along time for that.

I also find that American Israelis are more extreme than Israeli Israelis. As an Iraqi, I am more extremely against what Iraq did to Jews than my parents were who lived there. They just accepted their circumstances. Perhaps we do need to do more over here to set precedence.

juggling sticks of dynamite to one another. The Hatfields and the McCoys never got along great either. Feuds last for long periods of time. Then one fine day the participants try to get along. I never tell jokes in the Polar Bears habitat at the zoo. It doesn't go over very well. Humans are like that to....they act like animals. Then they kill you.....go figure?

Well, your question implies that the Palestinians are bipolar society which is not true. There is always a door for fresh idea. Fatah and Hamas only reflects the most recent status on the ground. the issue here is that the Palestinians at the beginning did not view the struggle with Jews as struggle between religions. You can see that from their music, media, and lWell, your question implies that the Palestinians are bipolar society which is not true. There is always a door for fresh idea. Fatah and Hamas only reflect the most recent status on the ground. The issue here is that the Palestinians at the beginning did not view the struggle with Jews as struggle between religions. You can see that from their music, media, and literature during the decades until the seventies and eighties. However, because of peristent use of religion by the Zionists. That is using the Jewish religion to recruit Jews from all over the world, and brining at least 2 million Jew from Russia in the late eighties and early nineties, the Palestinians realized that religion is an issue here. In fact, Hamas appears after all a natural and expected response to Zionism... If this is a national struggle, then what has Jews in the US and Europe to do with it? Why not limit the struggle among Palestinian Jews who never exceeded 3% at the start of the twentieth century literature during the decades until the seventies and eighties. However, because of persistent use of religion by the Zionists. That is using the Jewish religion to recruit Jews from all over the world, and brining at least 2 million Jew from Russia in the late eighties and early nineties, the Palestinians realized that religion is an issue here. In fact, Hamas appears after all a natural and expected response to Zionism... If this is a national struggle, then what has Jews in the US and Europe to do with it? Why not limit the struggle among Palestinian Jews who never exceeded 3% at the start of the twentieth century? If this is a religious struggle between Islam and Judaism, then struggle becomes different. At this point, it is not even accurate to describe this as a struggle between Arabs and Jews, it is getting out of control I think. And Muslims particularly after being challenged with the recent Al-Aqsa mosque clearly have no faith in Zionist Judaism!

what Jews experienced in Iraq or to this matter in Europe. You cannot fix a mistake by another fatal one.

as a palastinians we do not like the israili becouse of the ocupation ..but the loosing sense of humor between the israili and palastinians is not becouse of the military conflect // it is socially ,it is the difference of culture it does not related to religion .i think the palastinians the moslems and the christians have the same culture ,the same customes as they live through the history on the same place and land ... but the israili have a west culture or a different one not related to our ,, and so thereis loseof the sence of humor without a military conflect ,, it is wrong but it is real

Your efforts to bring some comic relief to the " situation" are appreciated. After all people are people and comedy is good prescription against hate. The cooperation of Palestinians and Israelis in comedy can set an example to the people in the neighborhood about another way to go about conflicts. Too bad Arabs are still resistant to the idea. Keep trying. Documentary about this trip might serve as a catalizator of something positive. Hope something in the works. I hope other Palestinians in the diaspora will follow your lead and develop some peace gestures rather just complaining and blaming others.

First to #8: Being jewish isn't merely a religious issue. It's a ethnicity. It's like being black or arab or chinese. I know people like to make a huge deal about conversions but conversions are more often than not done by people who have broken family lines (like myself) and take alot of work. Judaism isn't exactly the fastest growing religion. And #9: Palestinians are paying for the terror they bred in themselves. They continually fight Israel. It's not like the IDF are shooting groups of Palestinians extending olive branches. They are carrying guns and bombs. This notion, called security, is a high priority amongst Jews/Israelis especially since the Diaspora experience has been a pretty poor one.

Activities between booth side where examples to be set to extremist from booth side, or third hidden parties that are playing booth side. In my opinion in a joint any work, one side promote the other in it communities by showing the good stuff about the other and introduce an open talk about what one side negative tough about the other in an attempt to understand it so booth can resolve it. good luck

good idea. which two sides, the palestinians and israelis, or the palestinians who are blacklisting hanania for performing, as he says "the zionist entity"? typical reason why arabs never win.

Ray, even though I won't come to see your comedy tour (I won't ttrade lives for laughs) I do feel sympathy for your problems that you are having with the Arab-American Community. Whenever I feel that the Jewish Community in America is alittle too open and too tolerant all I have to do is look at Arab-Americans in Paterson, NJ or Dearborn, MI to realize that a closed community is a dead community. So good luck Ray with your battles within your own community. I hope you shatter a few windows and let in the light.

Humor is one of the most difficult things to translate if not impossible at times mostly I think because of the culture. Much is left out in humor. The funny part is when the listener figures it out. Take a look at some of the most successful cultures in the world and some of the least successful. The most successful I think you will find also do a very good job of picking up the best from other cultures and adapting it to their own. The opposite seems true of least successful. You know, King Abdula's of Jordan grandfather (?) wanted the Jews in the Mideast so his people could benefit from their Western technology culture. The Palestinians I know are very educated and decent people who benefited greatly. Just think where the surrounding region could be now if it wasn't for the extremist outsiders trying to keep everyone down so they could take advantage of the situation. Unfortunately, insiders like Arafat never did any better, and he spread terrorism throughout the world through most of the current terrorism groups and even those in Europe during the 70's. They all trace back to him. He was never serving his people, only some bigger Muslim agenda. With all the insanity going on in the region, who knows how long it will take to get two safe and stable states.

First, congratulations on your Comedy Tour, Ray! Stewart, I think the terrorism that you say Arafat spread around the world pales in comparison with the terrorism spread around the world by the USA, their military and the CIA and various covert operations. And then there is the terrorism of the government of Israel, the IDF and Mossad and their covert operators. Now if only the USA and Israel really truly wanted to establish two states, Israel and Palestine, we might actually make some progress. But instead, the US allows Israel to increase the apartheid conditions under which the Palestinians live in the Occupied Territories. Such actions against the Palestinians generate more radicalism. No laughing matters..... I just finished reading a book called Three Wishes: Palestinian and Israeli Children Speak by Deborah Ellis. (the Canadian Jewish lobby kept the book out of the Toronto school libraries). The children interviewed in the book want to live free of fear, to be able to play and have fun with their friends, even to go to school and become doctors and lawyers. It was a sad book with very little humour. I wonder if adults read these stories, would they feel any compassion for the "other side" and see how similar the fears and hopes of these children really are. Would that make any difference in how they conduct themselves and work towards peace? I wonder....... I hope....

I guess we'ed be all better off if we let the former Soviets,Chicoms, East Germans ect. run the world. Muslim terrorism above supported by thove pales to the US? You are sick, really really sick. Here you are in this country geting all the economic benefits and oportunity of working here instead of Cananda and you can't see it? People die to come here, and most then try make this place better. Why don't you just go to Cuba, Russia, China or wherever similar and enjoy yourself. Hardly anyone in these places understands economics or global strategic realities so you'll feel right at home. They'll even tell you what to read. ... no in your case they'd let you pick the reading list for the country.

Myth of moderation Fundamentalist Hamas, secular Fatah have same vision: Israel's destruction Martin Sherman Published: 03.04.07, 21:01 / Israel Opinion With all the hate that's been preached and indoctrinated, what do we do with the above.d You tried your best to be ballanced and response slook so much more construtive in most case. No we get discussions going. Isn't that the goal? Haven't we all but lost the Palestinian young andouth? The information in the above article is hard to ignore. This Palestinian/Isreal conflict is always being made to serve a much biger agenda.

Economics that makes the rich richer and the poor poorer is a poor economics and fortunately, there are people seeking to develop a new economics which is fair and just for ALL, not just the elite, an economics that doesn't rape "the underdeveloped" countries of their resources, that makes sure everyone gets paid a for their work. The social services provided in Canada (where I live) might not be as good as in the Scandinavian countries but at least we do have more than most ordinary Americans. Hamas was not totally a terrorist organization. They also provided social services to the Palestinians, services they desperately needed. Israeli checkpoints, curfews and rules, the separating wall/fence and the highways have made it almost impossible for Palestinians to make a decent living or get a good education. Israeli bombings and bulldozings have destroyed homes. There was a crisis in Palestine even before the election of Hamas and in those days Hamas was doing some good, just as Hizbollah has provided social services in Lebanon. People and organizations can do both good and evil. For example, I don't deny the good that the USA and Israel have done in the world as well.. .or you for that matter.. more than just feeding the plants with your breathing lol - you see, I have a sense of humour lol .

lack of understanding for how things have worked in real world and what has been successful. The poor people in this country live extremely well compared to most others although certain things take longer for them. People have always come along promissing the world to the masses, and the masses have often been suckered by it and then they are subjegated and held in terrible conditions. You seem to be one of those suckers. Hamas and Hizbolla had plenty of oportunity to build a state for the Palestinians, and they squandered it for their own agenda. Again, suckered them with promisses and threw some freebies at them. Most progress is made by individuals with oportunity who become successful and attract others to join. There is no "New Economics". Human nature is basically the same since Joseph correctly advised the Pharoh. Give the oportunity to the people. the best will rise to the top, create more oportunities for others. Everything else has ended up on the trash heap of history. Remember, Hamas, Fahtah has had plenty of good opportunities to build a country instead of squandering it. No, they use the Palistinians for their larger agenda. If what they offered was so great and working, Im sure most of the Palistinians here in the US would be looking ways to return. Keep rooting for them. They need good suckers like you to keep up the illusion. said, As you "Not totally a terrorist organization." With all they could have done, and what they did, does it matter? And the hate they teach in school??? These are your people, the non constructive radicals, using anyone and being used themselves. Go join them so you can live in Nirvana. Maybe you won't be able to aford access to a computer.

Good grief, you call the USA a success right now! Our western "civilization" is a success!!? I see a few elite people who have made a ton of money from WAR and the rest are kept poor and miserable and IGNORANT (brainwashed!) The poor in the USA live in greater poverty than the Cubans who have more social services than there are in the USA. The violence in the USA is on par with third-world countries. Infant mortality is as high in the USA as in third-world countries. Check out the REALITY of the QUALITY of life in our Western World. Why are there so many people in prisons/jails in the USA? Why do so many young people resort to a life of crime and drugs? Our societies are SICK! They might have computers and TVs and game machines, but they are SICK. And Leo Strauss saw the hedonistic liberalism in post-war West and developed his philosophy of deception (the "noble lie"), trying to bring back ORDER to the mess he saw. And voilà we have the birth of the NeoCons. (Wolfowitz and William Kristol were his students). And one of the prominent early people in the Muslim Brotherhood, Sayyid Qutb, saw the same nihilism in the USA and went in a different direction. He was a moderate, wanting to return to religious values, until he ended up in prison and was tortured. Then he became a radical. So you want more radicals terrorize and torture people -- Palestine is a good experiment in the radicalization of a people!

I've had some people write me who used to live in the former communist block. They swear your're a paid propagandist from their expiences. No just a university instructor. Heck, what's the difference. Let's s see. You forget about the forced anexation of Tibet by the Han our current Chinese buddies and 10 million starved in the Ukraine elludes your knowledge of history. Yet you rant and rave about the CIA. There is nothing any nation has not done or will not do. It is only a matter of degree. I got 100's of thousands of dollars worth of government medical and social services for my fiance' who was disabled after being struck by a car and this in a state with very limited resources. It took a while to get the extras. Some doctors are even helping on their own. Where have you been? Your facts and missing stats are very skewed. Government has never been very effective at curing social and moral ills. The Soviets couldn't do it. The Dutch and the Swedes have their problems....the list goes on and on. Try a family and faith institutions. I see plenty of sucess with this every day. Even the Chinese know enogh to send an unruly child home to there parents. You know we gave out all sorts of social services and money in this country. Much of what we got in return are single parent mothers, more crime and drugs (oh, crime has been basically trending down if you bothered to check it out) and much of the mess we have now. They threw tens of millions of dollars at a school in KC to no avail. So keep throwing money at things so long as it is your own. Funny, how much of the drugs in this country come from or through countries with great communistic and socialistic aspirations. Cuban doctors are so great, Castro had to send to Spain for his own. Ever see how the rulling class lives in some of these so called peoples "paridises." Personally, I'd rather have a choice. Oh, the rich have plenty of money. It doesn't stop them from stealing, not even from each other. Maybe someday you will get it and growup.

As much as I hate to say it, we do agree on some things. I do believe it's the family's, not the school's, job to raise children. I feel sorry for young children being shunted off to daycare centres or babysitters. Too many parents spend no time, not to mention quality time, with their children. I have often wondered why people bothered to have babies in the first place. And I do agree with you that two parents and I'd add an extended family and a caring community are all critical for raising children. I'm not too impressed by our so-called "civilized" West. Yes, i think that some of these countries are doing better than others when it comes to health care, education, and quality of life, but generally speaking, I think they are all unhealthy. These are societies still based on a dominator model rather than one of participation. They resort to punishment and reward rather than cooperation and collaboration. My main objection to Israel and USA is their emphasis on the use of military and unilateral action as well as their unwillingness to acknowledge or abide by international laws or rules. I am distressed by their continued undermining of the UN rather than trying to strengthen the UN. In many ways, Israel and the USA are rogue states as much as North Korea and Iran. Tragically, Palestinians continue to suffer unfairly because of Israel and the USA. But I'm trying not to lose my humour.... or my hope.

And yourself as well. Do not equate the Hamas or the Hizbullah to Israel. Those two organizations both use their "noble" causes as a cover for their ultimate goal - No more Israel (even Hanania agrees with me on that). Just look at their flag with the green shaded picture in the middle of ALL OF ISRAEL + THE WEST BANK + GAZA. Just recently I saw a piece on the BBC (usually severely anti-Israel biased) by a British (non-jew) journalist, forgot his name, on the funding of Hamas and their "educational" system where schoolchildren are encouraged to become martyrs. I can smell propaganda and thats not it (you can tell by the uncomfortableness of the school principal when asked about certain things).Thats who we are dealing with. Understand that.

.. of work for a while. Look, how do you educate a person who only reads what she wants to read, believes what she wants to believe, advertises it to the whole world, but won't go live in these worker's paradises or go see what's really going on in the mideast. She's one big, "for example, for example .... " without ever saying it. She never did her homework on both sides and still refuses to do so even though she is at a University and has plenty of resources. She reminds of the Arabs back in the 60's who used to scream bloody when Israel retaliated after 16 terrorist attacks. Has she ever read or talked to people who were there in '48. How come she never looks into the way the Arab Armys threatened their own people to leave Israel and about the organized Israeli effort to get them to stay. How come she never seizes the great opportunity the Palistinians have to begin their own country with what they were given. How come she doesn't really acknowledge Ray's explination of how the Muslim extremists are deluding and destroying the hopes of their own people. There was a time not so long ago when the Israeli's where working out all sorts of business deals with the Palistinians to help both after a peace might have been worked out. This person is purposely ignorant to serve her own disfunctional emotional objectives. God forbid she look deeply into both sides and have to think rather than emote. The are people who listen to NPR and turn it off just before the NPR business news. They also don't watch Fox for the balance. Same is true for their reading. After much tear jerking and misplaced anger, they decide to be someone's rehtorical white knight. "The people are in love with the poets, the poets in love with the communists (or fill in something else...radical muslims ect.), and the communists are in love with themselves." (NOT MY QUOTE BUT A GOOD ONE) Some people never look beyond the poets. All they take is a little tear jerking to react. They couldn't stomach both sides if they tried. That's why they don't.

I think Arja is an intelligent person with good intentions and in my dialogue with her (private e-mails), I found that I agree with her on a lot of things. I think her one-sidedness towards Israel is a result of propaganda and the fact that she likes to take the side of the "underdog" (not Israel anymore). She is definitely misinformed. On the other hand, I don't think I agree with you on a bunch of issues as well. For instance - the settlements are WRONG and must stop and be evacuated and most of all - 1948. I have been re-evaluating what I know about that period because of an admirable proffesor at my former university, BGU, named Benny Morris. Pr. Morris sheds light on what really happened in 1948, based on archived IDF files that were kept from the public until the 80's ,and he does it with no apparent political agenda. His claim differs greatly from the well-known narrative, although no one can dispute the fact that the arabs were given numerous opportunities to make peace before and after that period. It is worth looking into. In any case, I agree with David Landau when he writes that staunch support of Israeli policies, no matter what they are, does not do much good for Israel. We can critisize the Israeli govt. as jews, which does not mean that we are criticizing the legitimacy of the state. Yelling "anti-semite" at anyone who opposes Israeli policies is exactly the same as the boy who cried wolf.

We suffer from our history, trapped in a circle of anger and deceit. Our media drives us to live large at horrible cost. We hold onto misbegotten ideals and beliefs that lay foundations for anger and envy elsewhere. When and how do we stop.

I never talked about the settlements. I have no idea what you mean by a bunch of issues when I proposed very few. Most of my comments on Israel are corrective in nature . You'll have to let me know what they are and I'll need to examine if they are mine. I've talked to a number of eye wittnesses who where there in '48. I'd like to know what you consider the well known narative. Who in the world is saying one shouldn't criticize the Israeli government because it is antisemetic? I certainly am not, but it needs to be put into a realistic and balanced perspective. You know, the Jews were given their land in '48 and the Palestinians theirs by the UN. The Jew who were not already living their, were buying their own land for decades.. Someone convinced the Palestinians they could have it all back through force. Gee wiz. What's not to understand. They been used as pawns by their own peoples for decades when they could have had a country by now and prosperity. Almost all is fair in love and war and when your surrounded by a Arab army of 80,000 and your not much of anything, it wouldn't surprise me at all what happened in '48. Extraordinary circumstances take extaordinary measures. So tell me what you were enlighted about. I wonder if I hadn't read it or heard about it from my Palestinian aquantences. Lastly, intelligence has very little to do with wisdom and success. There are many less intelligent people doing more good and being more successful than many smarter ones because they have and value their emotional maturity beyond anything else. I'm not impressed by intelligence (professors ect.) at all until I what they do with it. I had a political science public policy prof who didn't understand an iota about economics. Here favorite saying was, "I never heard of that." All she had to do was listen into the business report on NPR to know what her engineering and science students were learning on their own. However, she was tooooo intelligent to do so. The reality of economics didn't satisfy her agenda. There are plenty of professors who make impressive cases for things untill you actually see the research it is based on and other research they never acknowledged. Everything must be put into contect and perspective or else anyone can do anything with anything. Arja is not a young student. She has had plenty of opportunities and resources at her disposal. She's not misinformed. She's self selecting only what she wants to believe. Now if one has done that most of their life well into adulthood, I'd hardly call that misinformed. Unbalanced describes it better. And the real crime is that she's passing herself off as an expert on young people who can't all see through it yet. Just look at the antisemetic ways a number of students are acting over the Mideast at a number of universities. I'd spend my time with the students, not the willingly "one eye closed" informed. Hopefully some students reading through these talkbalks can come to understand what this is all about and see the distinction when mature people discuss contentious issues in these talkbacks. I got to give Ray credit. I think he's really been making an effort to be ballanced even if it hurts and that helps others do the same. (please excuse grammer and spelling until someone gets me a copy editor :-). I'm half asleep when I get around to this and don't have much time.)

I have neither the time nor the energy for a historical debate on what really happened in 1948. Kust go read up on the guy and see what he says. It may surprise you, or even disturb you, or you may just disregard it as blatant lies. History is far from objective. 2 people at the same place at the same time are likely to tell two completely different versions. The prof. bases his views on archived evidence from the early IDF. (as well as eyewitness accounts)