That's fine with me Tal what you write, but on a more positive note: how do you select a suitable partner? Is a Shadchan involved or do you arrange your own marriage? How do you make the choice?

Your opinion is fine; acknowledging reality. So now, how do you propose to alter (resolve the problem?) of the husband's absolute control of the divorce system ? Reform????

...on one of the worst researched articles I have ever read. This entire article is FICTION and should be labelled as such.

I know in my community were thousands live that is orthodox probably less than five percent get divorced. Now how many orthodox live in Betar Ilit 38 ??? In the non-orthodox the divorce rate is clos to 50% this whole article is built on imaginary delusions. I am orthodox and the methods the writer writes about school children I never heard of. If this writer has nothing to write about there is a Mishana "Seyog Lachochma Shtika"

That she has no interest in proper journalism, she is an infiltrator in the Hareidi world, on the payroll of a totally secular media, to make the orthodox world look ridiculous. Fortunately most people have more sense than Tali gives them credit for. Guys - this article is pathetic.

The "strictly Orthodox approach" you have detailed is not at all the Orthodox apporach. Sure, perhaps it's the norm among some extreme elements, but it's certainly not the norm across the Orthodox spectrum.

problem is that kids today cannot think for themselves. They have nothing to do with the arrangement. It is a strictly arranged business deal between the parents that must put each "side" in a good light. What goes on behind closed doors is irrelevant...

B"H 1. It is not reasonable to expect that once one is getting married, one is going to "heaven". Marriage is a serious commitment, as serious as a career. In fact many people end up sacrificing their careers to dedicate resources to marriage. As with any position that has its ups and downs, the same with marriage. 2. Although there is no guarentee that a marriage will "work-out", it is a process of growth and maturity. Often times dificult marriages are real opportunities to build the skills to deal with difficult situations. These avenues of growth are not available in heaven. They are right here on earth. It requires creativity, education, and a willingness to be a partner with G-d to be a partner in marriage. 3. If you want to measure the success of marriage by the divorce rate, the seucular who "pick their own partners" have a much higher rate of divorce than the orthodox who get assistance in picking a partner and who get assistance after getting married. Ultimately, it is the husband who choses his wife and his wife who accepts that choice by accepting his present of value, be it a ring or whatnot. 4. Divorce does not mean that the previous husband, wife, and children do not have a serious relationship. However, it can mean that this relationship is no longer in the same home. Some divorce gets very nasty, with one partner banned by the court from seeing his children or having tremendous financial burden that he cannot reasonably sustain. I say his because it is rare that a court bars a woman from visiting her children or even makes her pay for them when she is at fault for the collapse of the marriage. These consequences can make divorce a worse relationship than marriage. Children who grow up without a man and woman often also have no expectations on the day-to-day relationship between a husband and a wife, making it difficult to set these expectations when they want children. It is not so simple, the decision to divorce. 5. Being not "compatible" is too vague a reason for a marriage to collapse, especially if children are involved. If a husband and wife have been together enough and are serious about their marriage, then they are usually able to find at least one serious fault in their partner. If there is to be any consequence to marriage, divorce needs to be accompanied with a valid reason for divorce so the wife has an understanding of how she can improve as well as the husband not being able to get out from his obligations to his wife without cause. She did after all accept her husband's present for the marriage so it was her vision of her husband which resulted in their being in one house with him. It harkens back to when Eve gave Adam the fruit, he accepted it, and bore the consequence of having Eve as his wife for the rest of his life. From then on the woman makes the choice to accept her husband's present and then bears the consequence. 6. Not all women get married. But those who are not married have no formal arragement with those men who give them children, unless court-ordered. In short, I think you have scratched the tip of the surface on the topic of marriage. If you wish to get married to a man, I recommend you research the topic thoroughly so you have a complete understanding of what you are getting yourself involved in. You are ultimately responsible for the marriage decision as a woman; if you do not accept the man's present, there is no marriage. And you bear the consequence of your choice. There is also the option for a single woman to adopt if she wants to raise children. I have rarely seen a single woman have a complete family with children, but it does happen on occasion. Either path is a choice in life with its risks and benefits.

This article does not belong on YNet, but rather in an orthodox forum...and there is no reason for the obviously immature, but caring, journalist to include a curse word in the last sentence. Many could benefit from marital therapy, in the secular, religious, and strictly religious worlds. And for those who are incompatible, the Torah and millennia of Jewish law provide divorce as a preferred solution. Many prominent rabbis have been divorced or had divorce in their family. People are idiotic to stigmatize those who did the correct thing and got out of an incompatible situation. My verdict: right article, wrong choice of words in last sentence, and wrong venue.

Okay, let us just rely on the infinite wisdom and life experience of 20-28 year olds to determine who the best match for themselves is. Without doing any proper research into the prospective match. With hormones raging hopefully the girl or guy will be good looking enough or smooth talking enough in person so that any real flaws or material differences between the parties won't emerge. That seems like an ideal system. By example, an attorney instead of researching the pertinent law for a representation walks into court hoping the judge will like his looks and smooth talking capabilities. Good luck!!! (Actually, in the Israeli Justice System this might be your best hope (if your jewish and not Palestinian).

she states the this is such a crazy idea. take it from someone older than you: LIFE is about living with what you are given. if your child is god forbid disabled - you live with it if your wife is sick - you live with it. if life is about more than just what is convenient for YOU at the moment then you can't just drop marriage or family like a sack of potatoes.

Ynet, shame on you. Why do you hate the religious so much? Your site stinks.

And there is no point in running away from the truth... Put the truth out there and then deal with it.

"problem is that kids today cannot think for themselves. They have nothing to do with the arrangement." No, the problem is that people who don't know the religious community speaking as if they do. Last time I checked Phili isn't exactly the bastion of religious life, so I have no clue where you got your 'facts' from. However, the kids are the ones who say 'yes' or 'no', not just the parents. They go out on dates, they speak to each other, they get to know each other a little, etc... What Ms. Farkash is speaking about, I have no idea. Unfortunately, divorce HAS been going up in the religious world, and it IS a problem. However, she is certainly not shedding any mature or correct light unto the matter.

she is absolutely correct when individuals are pressured to get married it is nothing more than legalised institutionalised rape i should no i am a victim of this abuse and i am strictly orthodox a The talmud says that yom kippur and the fifteenth of av were the happiest days of the year because the young boys and girls used to match themselves up without shadchonim in comparison the talmud says that there was this roman womanwho forced her slaves to get married [she made shidduchs for them] and the result was they beat each other up and in Sodom they used to pair [make shidduchs young boys with old maids if Tal wants to email me i will expand further and she has real guts for writing the articletHE TALMUD COMPARES MARRIAGE AND A DIVORCE JUST LIKE THERE IS REJOICING at a wedding so there is rejoicing in a divorce i wish i was divorced

that whole thing about "irreconcilable differences" has been shown to be bologna. well functioning marriages have been found by studies to have JUST AS MANY irreconcilable differences then failed marriages/divorces. the differences is in whether they allow those differences to become a big deal or not.

Just as Scientifically one test is statistically worthless a solution without a study and control group is again invalid. To pare to the bone one group in such a polarized demeaning manner with no valid quotes or studies is plain speculation. The consequential advocating of divorce only shows the avowed pessimistic attitude of the writer with no consideration to the publication of junk science. The article sounds as if it came from someone with a post relationship disorder rather than a journalist with any integrity. A self deprecating look into the mind of a non-pragmatic iconoclast who is disillusioned with love and especially marriage, a pity indeed.

when people advise counselling in marriage what they mean is take a course in how to be abused and learn to enjoy it

the murder rate of spouses in israel has increased due to the fact that divorce is made very difficult this inevitably leads to an explosion and to my mind divorce is better than murder The chofetz chaim writes that not telling a prospective partner the negative characteristics of the future partner is akin to standing over the blood of your friend the implication is in my understanding and i may be wrong that forcing someone into an unsuitable marriage is akin to murder

It hit me after reading this again: "Because among us, the strictly Orthodox..." She calls herself "strictly Orthodox" yet uses language such as: "and the bitch will be seated next to you..." I think it's fair to say that her "first-hand" knowledge on being "strictly Orthodox" is rather flimsy, being clear that she herself is not as religious as she labels herself as.

"the chofetz chaim writes that not telling a prospective partner the negative characteristics of the future partner is akin to standing over the blood of your friend" The Chofetz Chaim writes that one is not allowed to speak ill about individual Jews or Jews as a group, yet it seems that you and the author could care less about this "small" halacha he spoke about.

Lots of snotty out of place chesed-less comments to an attempt to point out that there is a MAJOR PRACTICAL AND EVEN CONCEPTUAL PROBLEM of late in the black-hat world as far as shidduchim, marriages and divorces are concerned. Comparing it to the rest makes no sense. Going back to TORAH-TRUE JUDAISM, and not chumroth or NEW INVENTIONS, WOULD BE A GOOD START

you almost sound like a self hating Jew! I do not agree I come from a rather large family and thank g-d everyone is HAPPYILY married. yes, they all met under 10 times...so what?! I think that you are defiantely the problem since you have settled wayyy too much into this world of "disposable". so are you saying marriages don't have ups and downs???? i have many haredi friends who are truly happy what do you care if they grow up together.... is has been this way for generations... unfortunately divorces happen but do you honestly think it would get better if they meet 100 times?! in your letter it said "almost as bad as the goyim" right?! and they date for years and yet they still get divorced. i'm sorry to tell you but you have got everything really mixed up.

This seems to be a classic case of someone trying to further their career by claiming to posses inside knowledge, where none exists. Tal is obviously not Haredi (although she may have grown up in a Haredi household) and is clearly to naive to realize the implications of her actions. I hope Tal was responsible enough to make the right decision about a prospective partner (although, a freudian assesment of the article would show that she was not). If she wasn't then instead of writing bitter articles do something. Either work to make the situation better or get out.

The penultimate statement in this article is a lie. Divorce due to incompatability is alive and well in the "Strictly Orthodox" world, I experienced it and know many others who have as well. Yes, you will be asked to stay together because of the children and that is only fair. If you brought children into this world you owe them everything even being miserable, but if it is to the detriment of the children as well no self respecting "Strictly Orthodox" Rabbi will tell you to ctick it out.

There is only 'one' reason any one should marry and that is because they have fallen in 'love'. Love is from God, and" 'love' is as strong as death."Christians are taught that if a man builds a house, he should build his house on firm foundations because 'all' of us will have the 'winds and storms ' of life come up against what we have built. If it is built on sand the house can not stand but will fall due to not being solidly built.' Every marriage has tribulations and various anxieties thrown at it; if it is solid in 'love' which is what God is ,it can survive, but if love itself is missing , poor kids poor people

listen, you are just plain out rude and disrespectful. You might be right on some points but for goodness sake get off your high horse.

I could not agree with you more - what they don't realize is that their children learn by example as well, and what kind of example are they setting if they stay in a totally unfixable, miserable marriage? Jews are not Catholics, we have divorce for a reason, it seems that even in the time period when the Gemorah was written they were more lenient.

...amongst Christian fundamentalists, too. The interpretation is these folk marry with unrealistically high expectations of marriage, and have a difficult time when reality bites.

Yes to #20. I highly doubt that the writer is "strickly orthodox". First, she seems to mention this 'fact' so many times to the point of over-emphasis. More importantly, if she was as she claims, she would not be talking to the many men she lists. Finally, the language of her article is inappropriate for such a claim.