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Vatican delegate to shun Holocaust remembrance service
Lilach Shoval
Published: 12.04.07, 02:11
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31. Yad Vashem is repeating communist lies
Scholar ,   Australia   (04.12.07)
Pope Pius XII was first attacked by communist Russia. The reason was that the Catholic Church was the only barrier to its power in Europe. Therefore, it attacked the Pope to cause people to lose their faith and turn from the Church, thus allowing communist Russia to increase its power in Europe. It is a shame that fellow Christians in America and Europe, and Jews who should know better than to make false accusations, swallowed these lies and repeat them. Recently discovered documents from the archives of the former East German secret service (Stasi) show that Pope Pius XII was actually an enemy of Hitler. In fact, Pope Pius XII was considered by Hitler to be his No. 1 enemy. This comes from an article in La Republica on Thursday 29 March 2007, where reporter Marco Ansaldo announced he has a dossier on Pope Pius XII that complements documentation in Vatican archives. I quote: Memos and letters unearthed at a depot used by the Stasi, the East German secret police, show that Nazi spies within the Vatican were concerned at the Pope's efforts to help displaced Poles and Jews. One document from the head of Berlin's police force tells Joachim von Ribbentrop, the Third Reich's foreign minister, that the Catholic Church was providing assistance to Jews "both in terms of people and financially." In a commentary on the new documents, Sr Margherita Marchione, author and expert on Pius XII, told Zenit that the campaign against the Pope was the work of the Soviets. "Russia's plans were to control Europe after the war. The only outspoken obstacle to Russia's plan in Europe was the Catholic Church," Sr Marchione wrote. "The first attacks claiming that the Church had endorsed silently the atrocities of the Nazis came from Communist Russia," she explained. "Soon to control Poland, and other vast areas in Eastern Europe, Russia saw the need to break the loyalty to the Pope of Catholic majorities in those countries. "The plan was a simple one: convince everyone that the Pope supported the hated Nazis during the war and, therefore, neither he nor the Church could be trusted after the war. The destruction of the Church would leave the field wide open for Russian influence and control."
32. # 12 Roch
Mary ,   Canada   (04.12.07)
I stand with you on this. As a Christian, my heart aches for the damage that ignorance and hatred have caused the Jews even today. There is absolutely no sense or sanity in these atitudes at all. G-d forgive us.
33. Jewish minority complex!!! Once again!
Mario ,   New Jersey   (04.12.07)
34. vatikan
Muggi ,   Switzerland   (04.12.07)
it's still a tragedy that even now the Vatikan still not accept their own past .Open the archives now and show it to the world instead of telling BS.
35. The Vatican/Yad Vashem/Israel
Ricardo Kolbe ,   Cologne -Germany/EU   (04.12.07)
Jews were destroyed in countries dominated by Nazi-Germany 1933 to 1945 and in those countries memorial services etc. should be held. Vatican State could not do much except on italian territory, eg. in Rome or by individual clergy. In Germany the Nazis organized their own church when the Protestants resisted the regime and Priests were put in labour camps when they told their congregation that Jesus was a Jew. The influence of the Holy See was indeed little because millions of German catholic soldiers were active in various areas and would have been subject to repercussions had the Vatican been more aggressive. The bitter question remains: What did the Yishuv do to improve the situation of the Jews in those countries and what did the powerful American Jewish Organization/Lobby do to prevent the atrocities against Europeans of mosaic belief in those 12 years? - I asume very little, only to establish Yad Vashem after WW II.
36. to scholar [?] Australia
charles ,   petach tikva   (04.12.07)
You are right , some Jews were hidden in the Vatican . Many were hidden in Catholic institutions also . Lower clergymen helped Jews , that's all true . But , the pope himself did not intervene , he did not condemn the Holocaust . That what we , Jews can reproach him . And that's also what is mentionned in the Yad Vashem Memorial site . This has nothing to do with communism . To those who reproach the actual Pope that he was a member of the hitlerjugend . in 1933 he was 6 years old , how can he be responsible for this ?
37. Who cares if the devils back out.
(04.12.07)
38. Next they will object to mentioning the nazis
jason white ,   afula,israel   (04.12.07)
were christians!
39. Vatican Method Fm Start: Fabricate "History" (2nd try, Pt 1)
Paqid 16 Netzarim ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (04.12.07)
Church historian "Eusebius in the 4th century, quotes Hegesippus (of the 2nd century) as admitting: "While in Rome, διαδοχην εποιησαμην" [lit. I FABRICATED the papal succession! This verb does NOT mean "recover" as distorted by Christian apologists]. Even modern Church historians acknowledge that there is no documentation, and nothing reliable is known, of this fabricated and non-existent pre-third-century claimed papal succession." (History Museum, Netzarim website) "Encyclopedias Corroborate "Christianity – For the first three centuries of Christianity, history is dependent on apologetic and religious writings; there are no chronicles (see patristic literature). Historians differ greatly on how far back the 4th-century picture of the church (which is quite clear [see, inter alia, The Conflict of the Church and the Synagogue]) can be projected, especially respecting organization by bishops (each bishop a monarch in the church of his city), celebration of a liturgy entailing a sacrament and a sacrifice, and claims by the bishop of Rome to be head of all the churches (see papacy)." – The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition. 2001 (excerpted from biblestudying.net). "Papacy – There is no unequivocal evidence about the status of the pope in the earliest days of the church." – The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition. 2001. (excerpted from biblestudying.net). Additionally, we must recognize that Roman Catholic scholars are fond of referring to the early bishops of Rome by the title pope. However, in all fairness, to avoid being called for dishonest scholarship, Roman Catholic authors should make their readers aware that the title pope was not used in the early Church as it is employed by today's Roman Catholics (excerpted from biblestudying.net). "Pope – The teaching of the Second Vatican Council (1962-65) on the role of bishops the office and jurisdiction of the bishop of Rome, or the pope (Latin: papa, from the Greek pappas, "father"), who presides over the central government of the Roman Catholic church, the largest of the three major branches of Christianity. The term pope was originally applied to all the bishops in the West and also used to describe the patriarch of Alexandria, who still retains the title. In 1073, however, Gregory VII restricted its use to the bishop of Rome." – Britannica.com (see www.biblestudying.net for more in-depth treatment of the early Christian sources)." (loc. cit. Netzarim website) Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il
40. Vatican Method Fm Start: Fabricate "History" (2nd try, Pt 2)
Paqid 16 Netzarim ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (04.12.07)
Fatally, on the one hand, there is zero evidence -- none -- supporting the Vatican claim that "Simon Peter" was the first pope and buried in Rome. There is NO evidence that "St. Peter" was buried in Rome as the Church claims. Exactly the opposite, ALL of the physical evidence ABSOLUTELY contradicts the Catholic claim to papal succession from "St. Peter." The ossuary of Shimon Bar-Yonah (corrupted to "St. Simon Peter") was discovered in 1953 -- and hushed up -- by Catholic priests, on Har ha-Bayit (the Mt. of Olives), clearly inscribed with his name and found in the same tomb with the ossuaries of Elazar (corrupted to "Lazarus") and "Mary and Marta" -- in Yerushalayim, NOT Rome!!! The fact is that the first Christian leader was the first bishop, of Aelia Capitolina (the Hellenized rename of Yerushalayim), named Markos, after forcibly usurping the 15th Netzarim paqid, Yehudah ha-Tzadiq (see Eusebius or our website). Thus, the "pope" is, in fact, no more than a phony and idolatrous Roman Hellenist counterfeit, and perversion, of the Netzarim paqid. Christians need to learn history instead of trying to continue their long tradition of rewriting it in harmony with their idolatrous Hellenist doctrines. Christians who reject Christian doctrines should stop calling themselves "real" Christians. The Church defined real Christians, a definition that was fixed by the 4th century. Believing 4th century Christian Church doctrine defines the Christian. If you don't believe that then, instead of proclaiming yourself as some new "pope" defining a new "Christianity" (which is delusional), deal with the fact that you reject Christianity and start dealing with the real world: Christianity is idolatry and it was the Roman Hellenists who cooperated with their pseudo-Tzedoqim ("Wicked Priests" Temple Sadducees) in killing Ribi Yehoshua. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il
41. THE TRUTH HURTS!
mike ,   Jerusalem   (04.12.07)
(im)Pious and now the pope who served in the Luftwaffe and was a mamber of Hitler Youth! Shame on the Catholic Church of 2000 years of anti semitism, hatred and persecution of the Jews!
42. Paqid #40
Keren ,   SP-now in Israel   (04.12.07)
Where do you come from?Just for curiosity... How you happen to be an Israeli? How do you became an"ortodox Jew"? The curiosity is bothering my mind.I have to ask. You know,I am used to come to a place,here in Israel, to use the computer for internet,and in this place there is a woman ,that every time she enters ,she does the sign of the croce;every time she enters the place,she even dares to make the sign of the croce on the Mezuza;everytime she opens a page in the internet,she does the sign of the croce... She is from russia,but already speaks good hebrew... I wonder if this people have cheated somehow the State of Israel and became israeli citizens unrightfully. I suggest,by the way,the Imigration Officials of this country to take a deep look ,case by case,on what is going on in Israel,and eventually deporting those who ,provenly, have been cheating the state ,and entering the country to profess their faith against the Jewish faith,for exemple entering Jewish venues and ostensibly making the sign of the croce over simbols of our faith. Now another question:Is cristianity a religion built to rob the Jewish faith?To apropriate for itself the Jewish faith,using it for power? After all,everything started with us,Jews,and our covenant to G'od. Cristians ,and muslims as well ,seem to me to be desiring to institutionalize a kind of robery;to be the rightfull owners of somenthing stolen... Just thinking...
43. Pope Church Sainthood
chaim ,   miami beach usa   (04.12.07)
What I do not understand yet just why the Pope (un-pious) serving his Lord has not been nominated for Sainthood yet. A small historical note as to whom the Church grants or acknowledges to be a Saint. Saint Louis of France was Sainted by the Church for his destruction of as many religious Jewish books he was able to put his grubby dirty hands on and deliberately desecrate them by using them as a filler for the backbone of the new testament bibles or for any other degrading usage. Gee the silence at best of the wanton murder of Jews deserves at least a nomination to Sainthood, especially his directive to his Cardinals or Bishops to refuse the return of all children taken in by the church for safe keeping, to the Jewish community by refusing the leadership of even communicating with them and publicly proclaiming any and all children you see here are no nor have they ever been Jewish. Is it any wonder that such perfidy will never see the light of day. A survivor of the Nazi (church endorsed) concentration camps (plural) Bergen Belzen, Eisdorfer, Treazian Stat, and of course the death trains, forced marches and all other degrading experiences, just for being born a Jew.
44. Ricardo Kolbe
charles ,   petach tikva   (04.12.07)
You ask what the Yishouv or the American Jewish lobby have done during 1933/45 . I'll answer with a question . What could they have done ? The American army refused to bomb the railways to Auschwitz . America in most cases refused to let refugees come in [ exept the many Jewish people who were very useful to the economy , and some well known artists and so ] Only near the end of the war had the British accepted the formation of Jewish combat units in their ranks . So tell me , what could be done more ?
45. to # 39 and 40
brur ,   israel   (04.12.07)
What have your descriptions to do with this article ? we are talking about one Pope , Pius xii . Are you trying to teach Jews Christian history ? or are you a Christian missionary , and not a Jew as you proclaim ?
46. Mike
charles ,   petach tikva   (04.12.07)
I'm Jewish Israeli , and i ask you : the actual Pope was aged SIX in 1933 , was brainwashed during all his childhood , what could you expect from this after 12 years of this regime ? Do you know that people were betrayed by their own children for anti nazi talkings at home ? Don't forget that hundreds of thousand Jews were rescued by Christians , were hidden by them , and that some of those GOOD people were also killed for this reason .
47. It is time
leon ,   Grand Rapids USA   (04.12.07)
to stop treating the head of a church as if he were head of a sovereign country. And it is time to recognize the Vatican as a church and not that sovereignty.
48. Answer to Chaim, nr 43
leon ,   Grand Rapids USA   (04.12.07)
Of course he was a saint. He performed a miracle. He looked at Europe, and saw no Holocaust. MIRACULOUS !
49. to 45 and others
(04.12.07)
the individual who calls himself paqid is a well-known Christian missionary who has fabricated himself into a Jew. he is not Jewish.
50. #48 Leon from Grand Rapids
chaim ,   miami beach usa   (04.12.07)
51. my previous posting to #48
chaim ,   miami beach usa   (04.12.07)
Apparently you are not familiar with Catholic Church Doctrine, according to their version, heaven knows when it was adopted, probably during the period when only the offspring’s of the sitting Pope could be consecrated and appointed to become a Prince of the Church (which means a Cardinal), any way according to their adopted rules what person can be considered a saint and the actual time required for the Church to acknowledge his saintliness is, #1 two (2) miracles have to be attributed to him after he died not just the one you wrote as they occurred during his papacy, according to Jewish scripture for such a person there is a special blessing (Kain Yovdue) My apparent chastising your observation is done in jest. The reality of the teachings of Catholic Religious Doctrine is “Jews killed their God” not the Romans, it has not ever changed Jews are blamed for all the calamities befalling mankind, what really puzzles me is, just why does Israel give the Vatican the same statues as a normal Country to exchange Ambassadors with, I guess there are many things that I cannot understand, this I shall add as one of them.
52. Mario in NJ #33
Jane   (04.12.07)
Ba fangool
53. #27, John, sadly it isn't so. The is also another question
AK   (04.12.07)
Was Pius XII involved in a premature and surprising death of his predecessor on the eve of the planned publication of a truly anti-Nazi encyclical truly condemning anti-Semitism? You also seem to forget the Concordant with Hitler, which effectively silence all Catholic opposition to Hitler in Germany. If Pius XII wasn't 'Hitler's Pope' he most certainly wasn't 'anti-Hitler Pope' either. Saving prominent converts does not change the historical facts of his inactivity in saving the Jews . The fact is that many ordinary Christians did far more and at far greater personal risk than the Pope did.
54. To #35: Kolbe, you are a disgrace.
AK   (04.12.07)
Vatican has the moral obligation to stand for the truth, mercy and love of humanity. Sadly, Vatican has abdicated that mission almost from the start, opting instead for power, wealth and comfort. BTW, Vatican didn't save the Jews of Rome; they died in the concentration camps. You question what Yishuv did to save the Jews? You hypocrite, you claim that the Pope with the following of hundreds of millions of devoted Catholics, tens of million in Germany and Austria alone, was powerless, yet you accuse a few dozen Jews with a following of another few thousand, without an army and influence, and living under not-too tender- British occupation to take on Nazi Germany, Nazi Austria, Fascist Italy and all those Nazi-satellites like Hungary, Romania, Croatia, Bosnia and the rest of collaborationist Europe? Nothing easier than blaming the Jews for the Holocaust. As for the American ‘powerful’ Jews, their failed efforts to save European Jews are clear evidence of their impotence and total lack of influence on American policy, making them anything but powerful, except in the most sick and convoluted minds. I know it is going to freak you out, but a true pro-Israeli lobby here in the US is not AIPAC but the tens of millions of American Christians. Some of them are even Catholics.
55. Great! Serving G-d does not mean serving truth.
Oleg ,   USA   (04.12.07)
56. to #31
Oleg ,   USA   (04.12.07)
You know what -- all that has to be done is..... open archives!!! That is it!!! What Vatican is afraid of?!!!!!! Just give scholars an opportunity to study and examine them!!!
57. To # 33 -- Vatican Majority Complex
Oleg ,   USA   (04.12.07)
You are just dumb!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Have you ever read anything in your life about WWII and Holocaust? Minority complex? Maybe on the contrary it is Vatican majority complex?
58. just balancing Pop's remarks on Islam
(04.12.07)
59. Holocaust Memorial
Albeert Hess ,   Baltimore, MD USA   (04.13.07)
What's the matter? Vatican got something to hide?
60. Thanks God! Ahmedinejad was not born during world war II
Khurram Zaki ,   Karachi, Pakistan   (04.13.07)
I think that proves Ahmedinejad cas that it was christians and europeans who orchestrated holocaust, if ever. So what about if Jews be granted the land of Holy See in vatican instead of Palestinians who has nothing to do with this crime.
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