Jewish Scene
Memorial ceremony excludes bereaved father
Itamar Eichner
Published: 22.04.07, 17:33
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1. this is very sad
(04.22.07)
2. The Orthodox should go first and chant the memorial prayer
David E. ,   Jerusalem   (04.22.07)
and after they leave, the Reform can chant whatever they want and even allow their women "rabbis" to do that.
3. Refom Rabbi
NYC Girl   (04.22.07)
If anybody wonders why so many Israelis are hostile to religion, this is a very good example of the reason why. I can't imagine a worse outrage than this abominable treatment of a man whose son gave his life defending the country.
4. Reform Rabbi
charles ,   petach tikva   (04.22.07)
This is disgusting . Those orthodox rabbis [ ? ] did never hear the word Humanity . And they want us to respect them ! Shame on them .
5. No such thing as a Reform "rabbi"
Antonio ,   Haifa   (04.22.07)
Reform Judaism is not real Judaism. If they don't like practicing Rabbinical Judaism, they should just say it like it is, that they are secular, and stop claiming to be Rabbis. There are no alternative Judaisms--it's an oxymoron like alternative physics, or believing that the Earth is flat.
6. Mr. Boyden is NOT 'excluded'
Dani ,   Tel Aviv   (04.22.07)
He is just not going to be doing what rabbis traditionally do. He will be like every other bereaved parent. If he wants to do what rabbis traditionally do, he must believe and behave like a rabbi. Rabbi, or Rav, means "great" (in Torah knowledge). Mr. Boyden is not. One who doesn't believe in, or observe, the commandments and the Torah cannot possible be called "rabbi".
7. response to #6
Dani ,   R"G   (04.22.07)
Dani, How do you know he doesn't keep the Torah? Do you keep the Torah? Do you know how to separate the Torah from the commentary?
8. # 5 Antonio
Avi ,   Israel   (04.22.07)
Funny Antonio, that you accuses us..... us of all people of believing that the world is flat? You people that believe in adam and eve and then three sons and then the rest of us?.......... You peopel that believe that the world was actually made in 6 days That the world exist for about only 6 thousand years That your book and according to you the world is flat, ( the sun rises in the east and set in the west, its in your book, read it) That God actually care about us (6 million dead in the shoa, thank you God) That the great flood really happened as described in you the Book etc etc etc, You have the hutzpa to claim that we are the idiots?......... That somehow your rabbis are better then his rabbis.
9. to Dani, Antonio
Drew ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (04.22.07)
Dani- Who are you to know he doesn't follow Torah?Do you know Rabbi Boyden personaly to know he doesn't? Just because someone is Reform, does that automatically mean they aren't religious? You obviously don't know a think about Reform Judaism. Antonio- I'm a Reform Jew, and I refuse to say I'm secular. Why? I light Shabbat candles, I keep kosher, I celebrate all the holidays, and have a very strong Jewish identity. I also like wearing pants and mingling with all sorts of people. Was I in an orthodox community in Israel, I would not enjoy the "western" life that Israel affords us, but rather, as a woman, be trapped in a judgemental community.
10. We never forgot your son when the proper time sets in
ben ,   singapore   (04.22.07)
Yit-gadal v'yit-kadash sh'may raba b'alma dee-v'ra che-ru-tay, ve'yam-lich mal-chutay b'chai-yay-chon uv'yo-may-chon uv-cha-yay d'chol beit Yisrael, ba-agala u'vitze-man ka-riv, ve'imru amen. Y'hay sh'may raba me'varach le-alam uleh-almay alma-ya. Yit-barach v'yish-tabach, v'yit-pa-ar v'yit-romam v'yit-nasay, v'yit-hadar v'yit-aleh v'yit-halal sh'may d'koo-d'shah, b'rich hoo. layla (ool-ayla)* meen kol beer-chata v'she-rata, toosh-b'chata v'nay-ch'mata, da-a meran b'alma, ve'imru amen. Y'hay sh'lama raba meen sh'maya v'cha-yim aleynu v'al kol Yisrael, ve'imru amen. O'seh shalom beem-romav, hoo ya'ah-seh shalom aleynu v'al kol Yisrael, ve'imru amen.
11. Our Souls are essence of G-d, stop crying my friend
(04.22.07)
Animals do not gaze at the stars and angels are confined to the realm of the spirit, but Man is bridge between heaven and earth. Our bodies are formed from the dust, our souls are of the essence of G-d.We alone can look at a physical world and see spiritual life and beauty. We who are beyond both heaven and earth, form and matter, spirit and body -- we alone can fuse the two.When the mourners kaddish is recited we all say amen and your sons name is included. The Orthodox Rabbis never misssed any name since the 13 century . Dont cry get up and Move Forth, Go Forth .
12. #3,4 Disgusting? Perhaps we should allow a priest
Shmuel ,   Ramat Gan   (04.22.07)
to chant the prayer because one of his non-Jewish followers lost a son? Reform have the same status. And that's the Jewish law if you like it or not. Your comments are always against the orthodox, so we don't expect anything different from you now. #3 This man is, unfortuantely, not the only one who gave a son for the country. And they do allow him to say a prayer next to his son's graveside and that's very thoughtful.
13. to #6
Vlad ,   US   (04.22.07)
So Mr. Boyden is not Great enough for you, huh? I am sure, Neutrei Karta `rabbis' have a great knowledge and expertise in Torah. What an imbecile.
14. Men in Black
Arielush ,   Ramat Ha Golan   (04.22.07)
There is a permanent imbalance in this country. We must be tolerant of them, but they can spit in our faces, throw stones at us. Who has more right to say a prayer for a fallen soldier? A father who lost his son, or a black hat whose son never left the safe confines of the Yeshiva? For shame, Fors shame.
15. Why?
Kara ,   Mobile, AL USA   (04.22.07)
I have always wondered. Now I know. It just seems so pointless. I am an Orthodox Christian, but in no way would I view this behavior as religious. Where is the mercy?
16. Orthodox Rabbis should be ashamed
Deeply Ashamed   (04.22.07)
It is shameful to treat anybody this way. That they are treating the father of a fallen soldier whose sacrifice enables them to live in a Jewish state is unconscionable. I mean, if their precious Torah learning hasn't taught them to treat this father with respect, they should simply stop studying and stop practicing as Jews because they are nothing but the scum of Israel. You'll note they achieved their goal through the threat and intimidation of disrupting a memorial service for fallen soldiers. If only there were ONE Orthodox leader of stature to tell these hoodlums how to behave.
17. ortho
brad ,   brooklyn, ny   (04.22.07)
Orthodox arrogance rears its ugly head again. Religious "purity" and fundamentalist thinking is one of the main threats to this world. Reform Jews are Jews. A good person and a good Jew should be measured by the content of their character and the quality of their deeds. Not their adherence to outdated beliefs like "thank G-d for not making me a woman" and praying for the Lubavitcher Rebbe to rise from the dead.
18. If the guy was a Buddhist or Pentecostal....
(04.22.07)
....and he sacrificed his son, I'd still let him speak. He's not out to change Israel, he's out to commemorate his son! I am a traditional Jew, but this is scandalous. I know the secular side has their extremists, but the religious side should know better.
19. Rabbi Boyden
ger ,   Raanana, Israel   (04.22.07)
What a disgraceful act. Hod Hasharon has shamed itself with this blatant cowardice.
20. Bully Boys
Paul Phillips ,   London England   (04.22.07)
Giving way to ignorant bully boys just stores up trouble. No decent person should have to put up with this appalling behaviour. Nuts to the members of the town's Orthodox community who make these uncivilised threats, I say. In the event of their causing a breach of the peace they should be arrested, tried, convicted and sentenced to a long term of imprisonment.
21. HAVE THE REFORM REFORMED???
al mann ,   Jerusalem,Israel   (04.22.07)
In order to justify one's existence, he joins a sect with which he can identify and feel comfortable. Today, words have become more important than acts. Words are merely a method of tagging and describing someone according to his will. He can therefore fit into some framework and still feel a part of a people and a nation. The Nation of Israel has been turned into a religion which has burst into a number of sects each trying to justify its existence. The Torah, the constitution of the children of Israel has been misused, abused, and corrupted by many who want to make it fit their lifestyle. Some have erased its Divine source in order to justify lessening its importance as a guide and a unifying object for the children of Israel. The word religion is never used in our literature, or in the Torah. The Torah is the justification for the nation to live in Israel as long as it lives according to the constitutional law, written and oral. So the first thing to do is erase the word "religion" from our vocabulary. Rabbis are teachers of the people. The Reform is another sect like the Sadducees or Essenes or Samaritans, who left the stage of history. They may have thought of themselves as part of the people but they, too, assimilated among the nations of the world since they had no content and no depth to their beliefs. Their citizenship was based on misleading concepts thereby misleading their followers. The word Jewish should also be erased since those who believe in the Oral and written law are followers of the constitution of the People or Nation of Israel. Those who are in denial of their citizenship by not adhering to the law or making up their own law cannot be considered a part of this nation. Reform connotes improvement. What has been improved? The elimination of holiness? The elimination of the DIVINE? The watering down of things that have kept the children of israel existent for thousands of years? No one should hide behind his title. No one should use his title to do something which can be objectionable to others.
22. To Dani and Antonio
Real Jew ,   Haifa   (04.22.07)
Apparently you don't know much about Judaism. Anyone can say a prayer, a rabbi is not required at a wedding, funeral, or any prayer sevices. The orthodox establishment is screwing him because he is from the reform movement. It has nothing to do with being a rabbi.
23. Money, power, Reforms and Ultrras
JPS ,   Efrat   (04.22.07)
The sad truth is that the Reforms are a minority, the ultra-orthodox have powerful voting blocks in the Knesset, and the sad result is what is that justice in Israel is hard to come by. While enough has been said about the self-isolation of the haredim, not enough has been said about the dirty power-politics that is behind it. The sad truth is that the Reform Jews in this country are a very small minority with almost no power. The ultra-orthodox establishment does not care about the army, nor do they care about anybody who is not haredi. In this case, they do care about a mourning father - simplhy because he is a Reform rabbi and a threat to their powerful control over the country.
24. Intollerence towards Jews by Jews
Gilad ,   London UK   (04.22.07)
The haredi community thinks it can monopolize all of Judaism. They all wear suits that were not used 3,000 years ago for example. Their interpretation of the Tanach is not the only one. It sickens me that they have taken over everything in Israel whereas worldwide the alternatives are accepted and different opinions are cherished as enriching Judaism. Whats worse is they did it to a father whose son was killed defending the state. It's a growing scandal that these sorts of acts are allowed to happen, and it's tragic at every single case.
25. thank you
ellen ,   florida   (04.22.07)
THANK YOU to the readers who correctly pointed out that this is not an affront to Mr. Boyden, as indeed he will be as all bereaved parents. For this newspaper to say he was snubbed is blatent bias, something a newspaper should not be doing. It is very important for a true Rabbi to have earned the title according to our thousands year tradition, To say anything goes in these times, is ultimately not for the good of any of us, Let's all be honest. And call a spade a spade and a rabbi a rabbi.
26. This is disgusting!
David ,   Karmiel, Israel   (04.22.07)
Where is tolerance? Where is decency? The Haredim DEMAND and the people just give in just like the Germans did in Germany. Teheran, Jerusalem and now Hod HaSharon. Before you scream at me, go and look in the mirror and look at yourselves!
27. They had no problem with his prayers
christina ,   Norfolk   (04.22.07)
"too intolerant to allow a bereaved father to say a prayer". Surely It was quoted that they had no problem with a father offering his prayers. However he wanted to offer his prayers as from a 'rabbi'-not the father.
28. to # 2 David..
drew ,   tel-aviv,   (04.22.07)
David, your comments are disgusting, and you are the shame of the human race. if you lost a child, it probably wouldn't matter to you as you must have at least 10 more at home.
29. #28 Is this Reform guy the only one who lost a child
David E. ,   Jerusalem   (04.22.07)
that he deserves to say the prayer? How about taking into considersation all the others who have sons fallen - most of them Orthodox Jews?
30. Insult to Rabbi Boyden
Rabbi James A. Gibso ,   Pittsburgh, PA/USA   (04.22.07)
Although predictable, the comments disparaging Rabbi Boyden's status and expression of Judaism are uncalled for. There are very few of these critics who know the 5-6 year post graduate education for the Reform rabbinate well enough to criticize from reason, not emotion or ignorance. Rabbi Boyden is an exponent of a religious movement in Judaism dating back centuries; this movement sees itself intimately connected to the Masoret of the last 4 thousand years of our people. When the Reform bashers have taken Midrash, Talmud, History, Philosophy (including the Moreh Nevuchim) to the extent of Reform Rabbis and teachers, then we can have a reasoned conversation on the place of this movement as part of our faith. I write this as a passionately commited Zionist who comes to Israel every year and who has carried a weapon for the State of Israel during my residence there.
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