Opinion
Delusion of desalination
Martin Sherman
Published: 26.04.07, 11:03
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1. stolen water
(04.26.07)
you have been stealing water for years from palestinians.
2. like always-a brilliant, logical and very informative
ora levi   (04.26.07)
article. Interesting perspective that i think most of us do not think about when it comes to peace/war with palis
3. ANOTHER REASON TO KICK p'arabs OUT OF THE NORTH
MOSHE ,   US   (04.26.07)
ISRAEL NEEDS THAT LAND TO HAVE ACCESS TO THE NORTH, THE GOLAN, AND PARTICULARLY SO DURING TIMES OF SELF DEFENSE. AND ALSO TO HAVE THE LIFE SUSTAINING WATER. KICK p'arabs OUT NOW. MOSHE
4. In other words....
Adam Admati ,   Israel   (04.26.07)
1. Israel needs to stop exporting water in the form of fruits and vegetables. 2. The Agriculture Ministry's stranglehold on water policy must be undone, and farmers should pay a fair price for water. 3. A canal/ river/ pipeline/ should be created to bring water from the Red or Med to the Dead Sea. 4. Funds must be increased for environmental and science education at all levels. 5. All plastic and glass bottles must carry a mandatory 1.20 NIS or more deposit. 6. Residences above a certain value, let's say $0.4 million, will pay for water on a progressive rate scale. 7. Businesses above a certain gross revenue value, let's say $ 1.0 million, will pay for water on a progressive rate scale regardless of category.
5. to #1 the palis have been trespassing on our land for years!
jason white ,   afula,israel   (04.26.07)
Let them leave our Holyland and go to saudi arabia.
6. Nothing Stolen: Philistines Admitted It's Not THEIR Land
Yishai Kohen ,   YeShA, Israel   (04.26.07)
"THE PALESTINIAN NATIONAL CHARTER" (Al-Mithaq Al-Kawmee Al-Philisteeni), Adopted in 1964 by the 1st Palestinian Conference Article 24: This Organization does not exercise any territorial sovereignty over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, on the Gaza Strip or in the Himmah Area. Of course, Jordan and Egypt, who never had any legal claim here anyway, have since relinquished their bogus claims. It's Israel's land and Israel's water. Deal with it. Even Allah Himself said so.
7. Dr Sherman
May Mia ,   Golan 4 ever   (04.26.07)
has been saying this and giving brilliant lectures on this subject for years. The mooshchatim change seats between themselves but they aren't interested in decent material and decent people. They prefer wheeler dealers from the underworld, with whom they feel much more at home.
8. #5 - A decision about who should go
Khalid ,   the Netherlands   (04.26.07)
I suggest you and racists likey ou should go to where they come from unless they can prove through DNA tests that they have been living in their magic kingdom on this land 2800 years ago. Of course racists will refuse to go through that test, because they know very well (just by looking at their faces which very cleary reflects their ethnic background , so it does not have to go as far as DNA tests) that they have no link whatsoever with this land other than their claim of adhering to the Jewish faith which happened to be the prevalent faith in Palestine at the time of the magic kingdom they are talking about. When do Zionists realize that Judaism is a faith just like any other, and a Jew can be russian, german, etiopian, palestinian, ....
9. The author intentionally ignores existing waste
David ,   Rehovot   (04.26.07)
In order to play Greater Israel fool. Israel doesn't do any reclamation of runoff or sewage. Municipalities don't use recycled water on landscaping. Israel has invented much of the leading water saving devices for agriculture, but that's where it ends. We dump raw sewage into the Mediterannean and waste much of the water in Israel. Lets start with that and desalinization, that'll suffice.
10. #5- YOU ARE 100% RIGHT.
SUSAN ,   ISRAEL   (04.26.07)
11. KHALID WHAT are YOU doing in the Netherlands then???
israeli   (04.26.07)
I know it belongs to arabs too
12. 9 ????
(04.26.07)
13. #8 Am Israel hai
Raphael ,   Netanya   (04.26.07)
What sort of colonial baloney is it to decide which human group is a nation and which is not? As for your racialist whimsy, may I recall that the Mufti Amin el Husseini was awarded the title of "aryan honoris causa" by Hitler himself, and was very pleased.
14. Challange - not so big
rh ,   Ashdod Israel   (04.26.07)
Desalination plants for 1 billion cubic meters cost $3-7 Billion, operational cost 0.60 to 1.50 / cubic meter / annum. so 0.5 Billion to 1.5 Billion / annum. Not a big deal. Costs will go down with scale and technology Israel can earn billions from exporting its water tech. We should be using more , solar, wave and existing excess heat from power plant to power these. New Nuclear reactors would help too.
15. Sherman totally misses the point
JPS ,   Efrat   (04.26.07)
Sherman totally misses the mark and concentrates on supply, not demand. Ignore the zionist propaganda - Israel is in reality a miserable manager of its water supplies. The price is too cheap, sewage is not treated, rainwater allowed to wash into the sea, coastal aquifiers are overpumped and becoming saline, nothing has been done to use grey water, and the list of faux-pas goes on and on. Instead of reducing consumption (for example, a total ban on cotton crops), the poindexters of this country keep looking for grandiose and expensive schemes like mega-desalination plants or underwater pipelines from Turkey. Sustainable management should start with reducing our gluttony for water, not for finding new ways of wasting more of it.
16. #5 in the right direction, but there's much more
JPS ,   Efrat   (04.26.07)
Keep going by banning water hungry crops like cotton that use enormous quantities of water for almost no economic reason (other than kibbutzim who invested in infrastructure to grow cotton and don't want to lose their investment). Then change the billing system so that consumers and industries that overuse water pay an escalating cost the more they use. Then make large water users install water reclamation equipment - or triple bill them if they don't.
17. #11 the Netherlands belongs to all its citizens
Khalid ,   The Netherlands   (04.26.07)
Answering your question: No the netherlands does not belong to the Arabs, it just belongs to all its citizens as is enshrined in the Netherlands basic law and the Netherlands constitution. That is the norm in all modern democratic countries except Israel where a Russian, German, Austrian claiming adherence to the Jewish faith ( while most of them violates even the basic priinciples of that faith and adhere only to the symbols) gets automatic citizenship rights at the expense of a Palestinian who has been living there for generations. Is that humanity? Is that Democracy?
18. #13 How about Menahem Begin
Khalid ,   The Netherlands   (04.26.07)
To begin with, who told you that I support the mufti you are talking about/ At the time he was appointed by the British to dicredit the fight of the Palestinian people for their land and freedom. Anyhow, if that is what he said then I strongly denounce him and for me is no different than any other racist person. So now it is your turn are you ready to denounce Menahem Begin for his terrorrist act of bombing the king David Hotel an incident in which Jews (non-zionists) were killed too? According to Zionists this act qualifies as an anti-semitic (Jews were killed as I mentioned) terrorrist act? Or is it that an act of killing innocents qualifies as terrorrist only if the perpetrator is Palestinian?
19. excellent, but forgot something
yosef ,   tel aviv   (04.26.07)
The article was excellent and leads the reader to decide whether the Arabs "refugees" should stay in Arab countries (#5) or the Jews should be driven into the sea (#8). But Sherman (and as well as #4 and #9) forget that the situation is actually worse. Desalination needs energy which Israel doesn't have. Under the Beilin/Peres plan, the Arabs will get the natural water and the Jews will desalinate. The Arabs will stop supplying the Jews with gas/oil, or simply a worldwide energy shortage will raise the price of energy and voila! No more Jews. Simply brilliant
20. THIS AUTHOR IS WRONG........
..............DACON9   (04.26.07)
ISRAEL DOES NOT NEED WATER, IF OLMERT PERETZ AND PERES IS GIVING ISRAEL AWAY.
21. Stop confusing us with the facts!
SL ,   New York   (04.26.07)
Prof Sherman: stop confusing us with the facts...we much prefer to live with the delusion that there should be land for peace and that peace is readily attainable with our 'neighbors' if only Israel would withdraw from its current size, about the size of the small State of New Jersey, to even smaller, into a tiny sliver of land in a valley between the West Bank mountain range (ideal for artillery fire directed downwards) and the sea--the same sea to which Arab leaders for decades have longed to throw the Jews. Now, Sherman goes and introduces inconvenient facts that suggest this dream of peace is nothing but a nightmare. How inconvenient.
22. Its about time someone woke up over there on the news desk
Lemmings Hotline ,   San Diego   (04.26.07)
Every time Ynet publishes an article about Peace with Syria and disengagement, water issues are never raised. Its not enough, however, just to write and publish one article about the looming water crises. Every article about peace and concessions must be weighed against this grim reality. If not, then its just back to media propaganda.
23. HARD LUCK
TOM   (04.26.07)
HARD LUCK. yOU HAVE TO GIVE BACK WHAT DOES NOT BELONG TO YOU!!
24. # 1 stolen water
Martin Sherman   (04.26.07)
Theft has nothing to do with the issue. Since the natural flow of the ground water is almost entirely from Samaria and Judea into pre-1967 Israel, and since Israel was utilizing most of this water PRIOR to 1967, by the internationally accepted principle of "PRIOR USE" Israel as an absolutely legitimate claim on these waters (as well by other accepted principles) . This, by the way, is precisely the concept on which Egypt bases its claim to the waters of the Nile which originates in other downstream states, and over which it is overtly and assertively ready to go to war.
25. inconvenient truth
gabriela ben ari ,   jerusalem   (04.26.07)
Sherman hit the nail again, every word said what needs to be heard
26. Sherman, yet again, writes an outstanding piece.
sk ,   USA   (04.26.07)
Really, I have developed little regard for Israeli social science. But then there are a tiny number of social scientists (like Sherman), who consistently write essays that are well researched, subtle, important, and carefully reasoned. I will copy this for reference.
27. some leftists would rather die of thirst
ex leftie   (04.26.07)
than to admit what a bunch of ruling fools they are
28. Finally, The Real Reason For The 1967 War Admitted.
Fred Farkelsteinman ,   NY, NY USA   (04.26.07)
Finally the truth about Israel's aggression in 1967 is admitted openly, and it was not anything Nasser did, but Israel's greed for the water resources of others. Israel has been lying for years claiming that it needed to continue the occupation of Arab lands for security reasons, when in fact the only reason was to steal water. Joining Judaism does not grant one land rights over the indigenous Arab population already living there, so this revelation of why Israel attacked Egypt, Jordan and Syria in 1967 is just one more reason that the occupied lands must be returned to its former owners. Arab countries must unilaterally declare peace with Israel if Israel once again rejects peace and force the implementation of UNSCR 242's conditions upon Israel through economic sanctions etc. It is time for Justice to return to the region, and the era of Israeli aggression to be ended once and for all.
29. #28 May I suggest historical accuracy?
Martin Sherman   (04.27.07)
You should check your historical facts. 1. There was no need for Irael to take the "West Bank" to acquire the water in this area as it flowed naturally into its pre-67 territory anyway (see #24 above) 2. While it might be claimed that Israel initiated a (justifiable) preemptive strike against Syrian and Egypt, this was certainly not the case against Jordan which attacked Israel at its own initiative (despite of being beseeched not to) and thus lost the "West Bank" and access to its water resources This would not have happened had it refrained from hostilities (as, by and large, it did in 1973 and thus remained unscathed). 3. It was the Syrians who tried to divert the head waters of the Jordan and to deprive Israel of them -- well before the 1967 war. This attempt was thwarted by Israeli military action before Syria lost the Golan and thus in1967 these waters continued to flow into Israel. Accordingly, there was no need to initiate war to gain use of them. 4. What "water motive" could there possibly be for attacking Egypt who by international law had committed an act of war against Israel by closing the international navigation routes in the Red Sea??? I am sure that you will agree that taking the parched Sinai desert did little to increase Israel's water resources 5. Even if Israel relinquished all the "West Bank" and Golan, it would still have valid claim to the all the water it has today on the basis of well recognized international principles including "Prior Use". Moreover, as previously mentioned, in the absence of Arab actions to deprive Israel of these waters, they would flow into Israel anyway. But would you recommend that it trust the Syrians and the Hamas to respect this right and indeed refrain from depriving Israel of the water to which it has a valid claim???
30. #29 Martin Sherman
Fred Farkelsteinman ,   NY, NY USA   (04.27.07)
To Address your claims: #1 - The taking of the West Bank was also to deprive the indigenous population access to the water resources so it could be used by Israelis, which is evident by the miniscule water rations given to Palestinians vs. the unrestricted usage by Jews. #2 - Israel knew when it attacked Egypt that Jordan had a mutual aid pact, and given that, like the recent attack upon Lebanon, Israel had been planning the attack upon Egypt for years, clear back to the Lavon affair where Israeli state sponsored terrorists planted bombs in American areas in an attempt to frame Arabs. 3. - I'm sure you are aware of statements made by Israel's leaders in regards to encroaching into the Golan to incite a Syrian response, so it was still Israeli aggression that invited the Syrian response. While Syria may not have a right to divert the waters in the Golan, it has a right to use it for its own purposes, which would impact Israeli plans. #4 - Israel violates so many international laws, norms and treaties, that it surely cannot cite a single violation by Egypt that was settled before the 1967 war as an excuse for its attack. Zionism’s goal has always been to take all the land between the Nile and Euphrates, but obtaining control of the water in the region has been ongoing, including the recent attack upon Lebanon to gain access to the Litani, which lies completely within Lebanon's borders and out of Israel's reach. Twice Israel has tried to capture the Litani, and twice Hezbollah has pushed it back. 5. - Actually no, as prior use cannot be obtained by country via belligerent occupation under international law. As an occupier, Israel has not complied with the rules applicable to a Belligerent Occupation that are encompassed in The Hague Regulations of 1910 and the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949. The said rules oblige the belligerent to safeguard the natural resources of the occupied country and to provide the original citizens with their needs from these resources. Both the Israeli High Court and International Court of Justice have ruled that Israel is in fact a belligerent occupier and thus is subject to the provisions of said laws.
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