I'm honestly disappointed in your response my friend, you couldn't take my response seriously and you threw at me typical propaganda crap you see on FOX (yes i've seen fox also)..... serves me right i guess........

Aaron Klein is on of the most honest, truthful, and most correct reporters where the middle east is concerned. No, he's not like the idiots at the ny. times.

And treat the terrorists the same way the sunnis treat the shias and vice-versa.

Aaron Klein and Abu Ahmed.... Aaron just cannot stop writing about Abu. Two-thirds of his articles are like this. It's getting a little tiresome and makes me wonder why Aaron is so obsessed with Abu.

It seems that fighting terrorism in the territories is doomed to fail.....when the IDF attempts to fight by the rules, it only emboldens terrorism.....if the resistance in Iraq is teaching militants that a wave of terror can beat "any american war airplanes" then perhaps the IAF should put them to the test...Carpet bomb Gaza, and we will see if terrorism persists. Just remember Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, you are alive at the grace of Israel.

You folk always seem to conjure up another foot to shoot. Truly, you always give new definition to the phrase 'born to lose'. G-d himself must shake his head at the games you play.

Not true, look how most people supported your talkback b/c this is what we all think in our hearts and want to hear more voices like yours. There's an extreme right to every party, and there're people in the middle, like that Dr whatever. Yes, he's spoonfed with a certain agenda, but he is trying to reach out. Forgive him his weakness, don't discard his ability to influence a positive change if he sees/hears more people like you. Thank you for responding here. Truth comes from the ground, from people who live in this tragedy, not from the people hiding out in Londons and Sydneys.

I read your response to DR, I'm impressed. The only response I can think of is A. the suffering of the Palestinian people is not solely from Israeli restrictions and B. That such opression is not the sole cause for terrorism... You already mentioned that the leadership in Gaza is corrupt. But corrupt doesn't explain the half of it... Israel has much corruption too, but it involves embezzlement and stupid rape charges. In the PA it involves conspiracy to murder political opponents & backdoor funding through the PA police and other otherwise legitimate groups to fund terrorism. Most Palestinian terrorists are not frustrated young people, most are plain-out members of Hamas and Al-Aqsa brigade and other organized groups. Any freak can take a rocket and call themselves a commander, as you say, but more often than not, attacks on Israel are organized, and very controllable, and can be stopped IF the Hamas leadership is willing to recognize Israel and end its armed operations. When Israel tries to lessen restrictions... take the case of certain areas of the Gaza border through which many Palestinians entered to work in Israel; they were made more open and had less security restrictions by Israel, so that more people could get the food and money and basic supplies they needed in return for labor...what was the response? Hamas whackos would use the lack of secuirty as an aperture for arms smuggling and suicide bombings. And during skirmishes between IDF and those gunmen, injured Palestinian civilians were treated at Israeli hospitals! I even recall watching Israeli news on TV that a small crowd of angry Palestinians were expressing dissatisfaction at Hamas for having indirectly ended the lessened security, because now, unable to work in Israel, they were at a loss for food and cash. Hamas has pervaded every face of Palestinian life....they have no qualms shooting at schoolgirls if it means eliminating Fatah members, and proudly brainwash the young with children's armed rallies, messed up sermons on television against Jews, etc... Hamas, in my eyes, is a bastion of evil. Obviously, Israeli operations in Gaza and the WB are no catalyst to better relations with the Palestinian people, but as long as Hamas, in its current form, remains in government and societal, and military power as it does now, peace just cannot come to be. Hamas has to renounce its tactics and then Israel will be willing to lessen restrictions, all restrictions. If not, the only option is unilateral action (a messy pullout from the WB, lets say), and usually no side is happy with that. Thanks if you take the time to read this.

While I agree with everything you said so far, I noticed that there's one major obstacle to peace that you have omitted - religious fanaticism on both sides. It's true that all these violence-creating organizations breed in poverty stricken areas (not just in our region, everywhere in the world), but it's the violent arms of the religious groups that prevents both sides from coming to the table and creating a peace agreement people can accept and make it work. And here a lot of the weight is lying in the Palestinian court. When your elected leader states that his ultimate goal is not betterment of his people, but rather our elimination, you can't expect trust and understanding from us.

that I have heard someone from the palestinian side who wasn't so filled with hate, give a clear and concise description of their view of what it's like to be in your shoes. While I believe that one of the keys to help the palestinans is to reduce the pressure that is mounting in the pressure cooker you live in, I'm not sure how that gets done. Both sides need to elect new leaders. I truly feel sorry for the innocents who suffer under the hand of those who are hell bent on waging war. Whether it' swith Israel, or with each other. For me and what I see, there will never peace if the arab world calls for the destruction of Israel. And what we see all the time are palestinias throwing rocks, firing qassams, kidnapping soldiers, wearing suicide vests to reek havoc and destruction on innocents. We also see the imams whip up the crowd into a hate filled frenzy against the US and Israel. So it's a natural thing for us to think that all muslims are, well, just plan nuts and a hate filled people. While the iron fist policy always breeds rebellion, it will always breed rebellion when applied to Israel and the US as well. I think the main thing that I see, is to start moving away from all the hate. Because it just keeps breeding more and more hate. The muslims hate the west, and the west are really starting to hate the muslims. Now I'm smart enough to know that the only law powerful enough to penetrate hate is the law of love. Many a good people have died trying to do what you have explained in your thoughts. You hav truly given me food for thought. Shalom my friend, Shalom. Salim Alikim.

IsraGirl, thanks for your good responses and attitude, I really appreciate both. …as you said religious fanaticism is a big problem, but it is really a modern day problem in the Palestinian society. Palestinians are not historically a very religious society, too many influences from invading powers, and exposure to different influences and cultures including Israel, not to mention the large Christian and also Jewish societies …..Compare us to a place like Saudi Arabia and we are all atheists (in comparison at least). The society has always had a strong, educated middle class, and we have not had the extreme poverty that could cause trouble such as in Egypt or in Afghanistan for example. During the last intifada, and the one before that, the harsh living conditions and the turmoil caused people to find their refuge in GOD. It is normal behavior regardless of culture and religion I guess. The second intifada and the harsh living conditions not to mention the financial blockage currently in place completely destroyed the Palestinian middle class, not to mention the economy. This really strengthened the Islamic movement which is something really new to the Palestinian society, and I guess the turmoil also strengthened the Israeli and Jewish right wing also…..my point is, as long as there is a cause, and as long as you are in the eyes of the people oppressors, such movements will become stronger and stronger, which will lead to more and more misery since both sides think they are doing god’s work….and the more damage you put on these movements, the more violent and aggressive they become….so I think that the policies of collective punishment just makes this issue even worse…the key if for us to have some sort of stability and better living conditions, at that point people themselves will start saying NO when someone does something in there name because no one wants to go back to the horrible conditions they were in before…. So I see the negotiated peace coming first, then the healing, the other way around is going to be near impossible...What do you think? I’m interested in your opinion since you seem to be a decent, reasonable person unlike a lot on this site… one thing is for sure, and belive me on this, if some of you really know what kind of conditions we live in, and how hard the simplest things can be over here, you will really see stuff differently ...

Similar to my response to Isragirl upwards….. Religious fanaticism in the Palestinian community is a new phenomenon born/ increased by the conflict, and gets stronger and stronger with the increase in hardship… that’s how humans are regardless of which religion my friend, just look at any community and you will see that. Hamas and similar movements my friend are being overestimated, and overhyped in the media my friend because the media has its agenda (driven by states or individuals) , and that is to make this look like a religious war , in the reality it is not…… the outcome of the Palestinian elections that brought Hamas into power was no surprise, and should have been seen coming. The only people who did not see it coming were hamas themselves, and they were not ready for it……..who voted for hamas you might think? Everyone who hated fatah at that time, and everyone who was religious…..even the Christians over here voted for Hamas. Who do you think their candidates were? Simple people who had the reputation of being GOD fearing –decent people but no other real credentials ……., none of them were military-wing activities; they were just religious figures who associate by default with Hamas. . Why vote for them? Because people were sick and tired of the fatah movement doing what all governments do best,,, ripping off their own people! So the vote was really an emotional response, nothing more nothing less… it felt like it was “power to the people”. Hamas finds itself in a tough spot right now; on one hand they realize that Israel is here to stay and they want to look like that they can improve the conditions for the people. On the other hand, they don’t want to seem like sell-outs who changed their stances right after they made it to power…..just listen to their spokesmen, one day someone talks about negotiations with Israel, and recognizing Israel. The next day someone back-tracks and says it is war. They are trying to redefine themselves, while maintaining their reputation. My point off all this is that it is better to have them in obvious positions and responsibilities, than to have them as an underground movement. Do they have Israeli blood on their hands? Yes. Are they right in their tactics? No. Should these tactics be defended? No. Yet, everyone in this conflict has some serious blood on their hands and the numbers don’t lie… No it is not Palestinian propaganda, it is the real deal. We go to bed every night with the sound of military vehicles, shots and people screaming…. every damn night, it has been like that since 2001, and even before that. My little sister has needs to be medicated when she hears gunshots……. So do a lot of people I know, stress, depression, hopelessness, anxiety are just the norm over here. You can’t live outside of the country because no one wants you, and you can’t live over here because it is no life. Have you ever seen a handicapped guy knocked out of his wheel chair and dragged down the street by his leg? I’ve seen that and no matter what anyone says that has nothing to do with the security of Israel, that is just flat out wrong and inhumane, and it is only the tip of the iceberg…. No house is empty of an injury or a missing loved one...and our lives are anything but normal, what did we do to deserve that? We were born here also ……. My friend, it really helps when you think of the other side as humans……negotiations even with the devil are much better than the needless blood being spilled, a lot of lines have been crossed … it is time think straight … I can tell form your response that you are a decent guy so I know you will ……

it's heart breaking to read your lines. The saddest thing is, that the loop is getting tighter on our necks, and the process you described of the Hamas election is similar to how we vote. Each time people become more disappointed and disillusioned with yet another government, so they run to the other side. We can talk until we're blue in our faces, but we have such little power to cause a positive change, even if we go out and demonstrate. Even the angriest of voices here are voices of pain, of fear for their children, their homeland. There's a great Israeli song that goes "I don't have another country even if the ground is burning". Well, it is burning, and nobody is giving up. Where do we all go from here, that's the big question.

the "armed struggle" has done the Palestinian cause more harm than good, your analysis and conclusions are totally correct. But I think it will take a long time until completely non-violent methods will be applied to achieve large concessions from the Israelis. Rgds.

I read up on irgun and they did target some civilians, BUT, this doen not mean we should accept Palestinian terror and/or make excuses for it. This is a deifferent time and terror will never worl for them.