Is the role WE - the PEOPLE - the Jews - the HOLY ONES - play in this equation. Hashem said - keep my laws and all will be well with you. Don't and one by one the abundance will be removed from you - INCLUDING THE LAND. What can we possibly expect for our wrongdoings? Rewards? Gifts? Shefa? A covenant is a 2 way street - one gives, the other receives, one receives - and GIVES BACK. What is giving back? Keeping the Laws. Being Holy. We've forgotten - severely - how to be a holy people. How to act, speak, think holy. It is time to remember - that is what the Rabbi needs to remind us of. Separation is a given. But - rabbi - be truthful and tell us WHY we are being separated and how each action, thought and word is being counted - and weighed - accordingly. For more information please read - www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Bible/Leviticus26.html

There is no doubt that these two events are causing Israel untold hardship. You reap what you sow! I am glad my kids are out of there!

Shalom First off, there is nothing "fancy" about my "kinui" - abdullah. In my tradition, you take the "kinui" of the teacher who most influenced you. In my case it is "abdullah" the arabic name of the father of the RamBam and also the arabic name of a contemporary Jewish sage. Secondly, EuMe is short for europe/middle-east. Now we have that out of the way. From what I can tell from what is said here about this rav. There is very little to indicate that he wants to impose "torah laws" on others. He has pretty much conceded that seems futile. That even a religious politician is more likely to have his "judaism" affected by his participation in the states politics than to elevate the system to torah standards. So you have nothing to "criticise" in this individual wrt a "torah state". Perhaps if more torah-observant religious leaders see little or no (jewish) religious significanced to the state then they'll be less inclined to try to "rectify" it and thus not provoke the secular population. So rather than criticize the rav you should applaud his courage to seek what is a de-facto seperation of true religion from politics. Which is EXACTLY what you and many seculars want. It is certainly IMHO better for Judaism and thus for future generations of Jews. Finally, why do you put "displaced" in quotes? Do you have a better term?

"by THEIR laws"?????????? Are you sure are you Jewish?If "THEIR"laws aren't your laws,what makes you Jewish? If you don't believe in the Torah,what makes you Jewish? What pleases you so much in your "secular" way of life that makes you so attached to it? It's been almost 2 years I have been comming closer and closer to Judaism(B'H),and I observe that life begins to make a more based sense.Tanach makes sense!!!,Torah is extremelly interesting,it is our history. I observe the religious families,for exemple, and they are helthyer than those attached only by material values,"western"values;they have higher principles-actualy they HAVE principles;their children are more beatifull,healthier and calm than secular and "western" children.... But the most important in this moment is that we,the Jewish People,have suffered in the History for being Jewish:other peoples,catolics for exemple,always wanted to rob our faith by institucionalizing it for themselves ,and the only way to accomplish that was by trying to exterminate us(inquisition,cruzaders...);nazis robbed and killed us;egyptians kept us slaves because they feared we were too smart and would thrive too much for their taste ,because they did't want "competitors"... Well...the world fear us;the world fears what we would be able to do.Actually the world rejects G'od,they want to take G'ods place by not accepting the Jews... If we accept their denying by obeying them,we are obeying something inferior and we don't need it because we have a "manual" that, if followed ,leads us to a superior life.We have the manual and we are endowed with the capacity to accomplish it.But if we,ourselves,do not believe,we will never know what is reserved for us...

Hashem said : keep my laws and all will be well with you . We have seen this "being well' some 60 years ago . When millions of HOLY ONES were murdered . when 1.5 million children and babies were so "well" that they don't live anymore .

would Ynet even enter this article on its site but to sow discord between elements of am-yisrael... think about it, Rabbi Tal has his point of view as does the Satmar rebbi...... I do not agree as my rebbi, THE RAV stated many times, do not put cart before horse, deal with the ishmaelites and mohammedites FIRST, then deal inwardly... have a nice day.....

Wem are our own worst enemu!

Look at my # 36 , answer to ys of Judea , this for regarding my religious being . I'm 100% Jewish , and made also Alyah , had not to flee persecutions , was born and lived for 65 years in a west European country . Gave a true Jewish education to my children [ from age 3 till 18 ] And i'm very proud to be part of this people whose [ mostly seculars ] contributed so much to humanity . I do not deny our past history as told in the Tora . The interpretations are different of course . Regarding the persecutions our people suffered from , you have'nt to tell me , i know it very well , certainly better as many others . What it don't like here is the more and more coercision imposed on the seculars by the religious part of our country . Instead of calling Israel a Jewish [= religious] state i'll prefer to call it a state for the Jews , where everyone can enjoy the life he wants . PS : what means : formerly SP ?

It's still a "kinui" , no important how you explain it . Eume don't says very much , it's a large place . "displaced" : i only would refer to your writing

How can you applaude someone who says : disengagement was the result of ANTISEMITISM and evil . This i can't . Even if you were opposed to this disengagement , to call it antisemitism is disgusting . It's the same as to compare those IDF soldiers , who had to do this [ many with tears in their eyes ] to those who assassinated our parents and grandparents . This statement says enough regarding this rav .

Sorry Fred, but Israel can only be a democracy for Jews. That is its raison d'etre. It can never be any more egalitarian than an Islamic society and continue its existence. And no, the Mullahs do not have a role because Islam is unable to separate mosque and state. People like you who try to mold Israel after the United States are delusional. One other thing...just how democratic is the U.S. these days? Does our government do the people's bidding or vice versa?

Real funny Charles! Are YOU REALLY SO SMART? Your words prove that you are wrong and Torah is right. You say from the Torah Hashem said : keep my laws and all will be well with you. You just forgot to add. All will be well with you and your children you will never go hungry. Your enemies will be scared of you. You will live peaceful in your land. BTW it is in this weeks Parasha. You also forgot to add. Hashem says if you don't keep my laws, you will be punished. Yoiur children will be punished because of your sins. You will have no peace. Your enemies will chase you and kill you. You will live with sicknesses and in fear. You will be hungry and be exiled from your land. Yes there are lots of curses to a nation that gave their word to Hashem to obey him and then turned their backs, blame G-d and say there is no G-d. That is why no nation has ever fallen so low after being so high like the Jewish nation. Charles as long as you stay dumb, it will not take away from the Torahs existence and its words. Open it and read and accept the truth. If you don't obey, you will be punished because you gave your word. For that matter, Hashem will never completely destroy the Jewish people because He gave his word as well in this weeks Parasha.

Rabbi Tal's disillusionment is understandable. The problem began when someone suggested that the State of Israel was the beginning of the Redemption. People were led to believe that the State had inherent sanctity. There were those who felt that G-d must be praised for giving us the State. And then, a reality began to sink in. The State did not establish itself with a mandate to promote Torah and Halacha. Although it "supported" religious institutions and programs financially, it slapped them and the observant public with a very unreligious and hostile justice system. Its leaders rarely mentioned G-d and by and large failed to look at our traditional sources, the Torah, the Talmud, and the Shulchan Aruch, for sources of direction and legal precedent. The State gravitated to a modern Western attitude towards sexual freedom with its concommitant lack of commitment to the nuclear family. In short, the State opted for unholiness without G-d and Torah. Where is the Redemption when the State evicts Jews forcefully, with its own army and police, from their homes in Eretz Yisroel?

What about the millions of "good" Jews , who were obeying , more as you can probably do , and were assassinated . What about the innocent babies and children who were assassinated .Dumb , i return it to you , how can you think you are smart when you believe in such disgusting words . You know my position regarding the "sins" comitted by people , and for wich millions of our brethren were assassinated . So who is the dumd one , this Israeli or this Galut "jew" . NOT THE ISRAELI ONE . Generally i do not insult someone , but with you i had no possibility but to do it , i can't let insult myself without reacting . I'm sorry for all the serious people , i meant only this man to whom this tb is adressed .

stop complaining with these sort of unconstructive articles and try to improve the already depressing reality of the divisions in Israeli society today. no religious Jew is happy with the way things are being run but to criticise and not care about even attempting to improve the situation is even worse.

The disengagement was ugly - but why was it a surprise? The secular world NEVER embraced the religous. Yet inroads HAVE been made to society. Its a long process. You are tired - that's understandable, but its not going to help. So others will stay the distance, and move on slowly just like in all of Jewish history.

You have a torah observant jew seeking to encourage torah observant jews to view the state as inherently secular and thus not "holy". If this view were widely held in the torah observant community, then you would have less political involvement form this sector, which is EXACTLY what you want. You cannot fault the rav's opinion on that score. Secondly, regarding the "disengagement", it is certainly unfair to DISPLACE people from their homes be they JEWS or ARABS. And any objective person would consider it "evil". Perhaps the state sponsored "engagement" in azza should not have been begin with. But once it had happened the state had the responsibility to ensure the security and wellbeing of the community, it had ENCOURAGED to be established. If it really needed to relocate the community, then it should have been done naturally and patiently over ,many, many years and with the free will of the members of the community. Perhaps some would have chosen to be "palistinians" just simply to remain in their homes. There is a strong "antisettler" sentiment in israili secular society that is really an expression of "anti-torah judaism". Perhaps if this sentiment didn't exist more secular people would have seen the injustice involved in forcefully dispalcing the jewish community of azza, regardless of religious differences. Also charles I am sure you know that throughout most of history in the last 2000years "anti torah judaism" equated to anti-jew, which is what is called anti-semitism today. It is semantics but put simply, if a person hates torah judaism, then doesn't that person share the hatred that anti-semites (including some jews who converted to other religions) have had agaisnt the jewish people throughout most the 2000year dispersion. So perhaps the reason why some might view the disengagement as "antisemitic" is the way in which most of secular israeli society failed to respond to the injustice of DISPLACING people from their homes, perhpas b'cos of negative attitudes towards torah judaism who they might have seen the azza community as representing. Perhaps some soul searching is needed in that regard.

First of all I am not insulted the slightest bit. Second of all I am not looking to answer your questions. Whatever anyone will try to answer you, you wouldn't accept because of how it damaged you for the last 60 yrs. Noone is blaming you for what happened not then and not now. Nobody is perfect from secular to the most religious we all have flaws. We all get punished for our misdeeds. But don't deny the truth. The Torah has an answer for any question that you ever had or you might have in the future. So you could either live your life as an ignorant to your Jewish past by thinking the (Jewish) world started not from when you received the Torah after leaving Egypt but rather from the Holocaust and from there we got (back) Israel because of the seculars of course. Israel is 60 yrs old only and we owe everything to the secular fighters for independence and nothing to G-d and the Torah. The truth is We were a nation for over 3000 yrs. Israel had an independence and was our land for 60 yrs + 3219 yrs founded by religious fighters. Religious Jews were living in Israel throughout that time while seculars wanted Berlin as their capital. The Holocaust was not the Jews only disaster. There were many more disasters. Some might have been worst than the holocaust. You don't have to be brainwashed to know the truth, you could see it for yourself.

I support the Jewish project in our ancestral homeland, and the creation of a society rooted in Torah values, and I won't be going anywhere, but Aliyah pretty much killed my zionism.

The state had made propositions to those Kush katif people . They refused , hoped that a miracle will occur . Miracles occured maybe centuries ago , but certainly not during the 20th century , when so many of god obeying good Jewish people were also waiting for a miracle , but nothing happened , and all were assassinated . To say anti tora = antisemite , is at least false . I will not let anybody call me by this name , i know , maybe better than you what it means . So to say to displace people is evil , can eventually be accepted , but to say it's antisemitic , is far beyond a normal reflection , at least . I'm certainly not against "TRUE" believing people [ Jewish of course ] they can be very comprehensive towards us , they tolerate other views , they can understand my non believing , they won't come with tora commandements to prove they are right , they know i can't accept them . Another religious guy told me ounce that it was because of the sins of precedent generations that so many innocent people were murdered . Till the 4th generation he said , how can you believe such disgusting sentences ? If you won't give a serious name and place , i'm sorry , no more answers from me

Israel was again independent in 1948 thanks to the 6000 mostly seculars ,if not anti religious , who gave their life for it . You have'nt to tell me we have a much older history than 60 or 70 years . I know it probably much better than you . And i even accept our tora as history book of my people . It's because i feel this attachement to this country that i made alyah . You probably miss this attachement , and stay in your galut country , telling Israeli Jews how to behave . Yes there were religious Jews living in this country , many came also here to die . But what was their contribution to the reborn state of Israel ? Not much , if any . Tell me wich disaster was worser than the Shoa ? The difference with those other disasters is that not any surviver of those periods lives today , and the Shoa is fresh in our memories . There are more than a quarter million shoa survivers here , who felt this period by themselve , there are much more descendants of victims and survivors , who , maybe not by themselve , suffered the loss of quantities of parents and relatives . And that's the thruth , the victims were awaiting a miracle , but this did not come . So if god exists , was he powerless ? would he not assist his people ? or the worst : did he want this to happen ? how can you believe in a god who is powerless , who don't wants to intervene , or who wanted this to happen . Simple question , but you can't answer this , only with sentences from the tora [ those are not the history i accept ] and those are non answers for a secular .

not just the government. That is the problem. In the Uk those MPs who sit on the opposition benches are correctly called "Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition", in other words they are loyal to the Queen, as the embodiment of the state but will do everything legally possible to hamper that bunch of muppets in government. The rabbi wants to turn the country into a theocracy with his particular version of Judaism as the only one with no opposition. We in Israel have to mature and develop a concept of "loyal opposition": loyal to the state and opposition to the GOVERNMENT of the day. Judaism doesn't go round seeking converts. All those who observe the noahide laws can enter the kindom of heaven - subject to living a proper life within their own laws and customs. Thus we have an inbuilt start for "live and let live". Those like the rabbi, be they religious or secular, Jew or gentile, monotheist or animist have only got as far as "live"; it's time to "let live" as well.

These are the ramblings of a fringe person who obviously never had any education in civics. He sounds like he should be signing up with Feiglin's camp to form a "Jewish leadership" of Eretz Yisrael. Yes, lets rip up Israel as we know it and crown some beloved rabbis as our leaders. Sorry, but the only thing Tal shows is that rabbis these days are totally out of touch with reality. Either that, or they're on the make. Tal should start with cleaning up the corruption in the Jewish establishment in this country, then he'd earn the respect of both religious and secular.

SP means Sao Paulo ,in Brasil.

With you all the way.

As it is - israel is a country for Israelites, not any other nation So everything you said is good and nice as for gentiles earning Heaven- thing is , we ARE NOT gentiles, so stop trying to live as a nation by others rules Every nation has her uniqueness and Israel's shouldn't be denied of hers

This is a view I entirely agree with. What does Rabbi Tal propose we do about it? If he has a game plan to rescue the state, the land and the people, let him come out with it. If not, then the only game plan in town is one at www.hashkem.org and its link, www.yesha.homestead.com.

DEMOCRACY has failed us and has turned our country into a bunch of clueless Jews who want to leave for the States while our women are dressed like skanks... Time to GIVE THEOCRACY a shot!Democracy has failed us! Stay out US!