Let them eat salt and olives or quite simply sand

So maybe its the entire population thats "fanatical" and not just a few small groups as some people would have us believe.

As American of Palestinian descent I agree with Ray and I will add that Hamas has been a disaster for the Palestinian cause as has fundamentalism in the whole region.

Pure democracy (majority rule) is a problem addressed by our founding fathers. The U.S. functions as a democratically elected republic, not merely a democracy. James Madison spoke out against democratic rule because of the treachery that can befall a nation when majority rule spins out of control and either ignores the needs of the minority or perverts the intent of the majority. Don't believe me? Read James Madison's Federalist #10 and you will understand.

Sorry Ray. Hamas isn't distorting Islam, it's exposing it for all the world to see. And, you can watch it on TV!!

The PLO has been producing kiddie shows preaching terrorism and martyrdom for YEARS - where have you been, Ray? At least 10 years ago, I edited footage directly taped from PLO TV which looked like the old American "Romper Room" showing little child after little child reciting poems about becoming martyrs and fighting the Zionist enemy to the death. Our clients presented it to the Israeli and American governments, who promptly and completely ignored it. They're also to blame for letting this go on and for allowing the PLO to educate an entire generation of kids to hate and kill. Welcome to Shimon Peres' New Middle East!

Unfortunately Ray, the Fatah (supposedly moderate) camp is not makig it easy for Palestinians to speak out against this type of behaviour either. If you spoke like this in thw West Bank consistently its also a death wish as you would be accused of collaboration.

I agree with you %100, this is absolutely hideous........there is no excuse for this shit except for flat out rudeness, and a tasteless in your face attitude...they know that israel is angry about this, and they just want to rub it in.....and defy both israel and the fatah movement which asked for this to be removed multiple times already................I talk to people around me over here, most of them agree that this garbage has to stop, and enough shit in our name.......a lot of people say that..........but were i disagree with you is that you are being harsh on the average Palestinian. let me tell you how the situation in Nablus is so that you know where i am coming from......first, there is no police force any more, and their is no law enforcement, the original PA police force was targeted and nearly completely abolished by the israeli army during the last 5 years. nablus is suffering big time, no money and jobs any more due to the embargo, and movement restrictions. all the trade, economy, employment opportunities are all gone......absolutely unbelievable situation that you have to see and live in to understand. every night military incursions, injured and dead people, and horror............that’s just the beginning, when it comes to our own people, there is a complete outrage towards Israel, the PA, and especially Hamas, whom are clinging to power despite all the hardship they caused, their is complete lawlessness over here, you have the armed groups from the 3 refugee camps surrounding Nablus, and you have the armed groups from the city itself, all these engage in fighting Israel, each other every now and then. Every one who has a problem with any one takes stuff in his own hands, you get your entourage and beat up someone because you did not like the way he looked at you. if you are driving down the street you might be hit by some car, who would not even bother to stop, and if he stops you will have a big fight and if you don't have ' people' to support you, you will be in trouble....robberies, infighting, lack of respect towards any one, no respect of even traffic laws, no police, no one to complain to , no money, no jobs, no movement, no traveling, no safety, no life........... We close our doors early because we don't want to be killed by Israel or our own.......a video broadcasted in gaza is the least of what we are worrying about right, it is no longer about Palestine or Israel, it is just basic human survival...........just want to make sure that when my family leaves home they come back in one piece......so what can we do? You tell me.........the average Palestinian is no longer average, he is way below average now…..thanking god for having air to breath….

I am sorry for your hardship, really. But again You blame Israel. You want your own state and a lot of you even want to kill Israel and its people, BUT you still expect us to let you in the country and give you employment. Even send you money. You tell me, why should Israel lift closures on borders when there is a very big chance that some of the palistinians allowed entry would commit murder or help in attacks? What other country would open its gates to a neighbour that wanted openly to commit murder on its people? Dont blame Israel for your lawless "country" or the unemployment, blame your ELECTED government for the lack of law enforces and for spending money on weapons instead of weapons. When you can do THIS maybe there will be a chance for peace. But you cant open your mouth to Hamas or Fatah can you? Cant disagree with them ? You will be executed. Is that Democracy? Good luck with that....

Ray you are the best

You make very good points and I feel it is important to respond. You are right, Palestinians are being abused by the occupation. But there are two ways to respond. The first is to fight through the System of Law ... it's not easy but when someone injures you or commits a crime, you take the fight to a court and fight the offender. We do not take the law into our own hands. The second way is the one we have been moving towards because we have lousy Arab lawyers. (Remember the old saying the Arabs have a great case but lousy lawyers; the Israelis have a lousy case but great lawyers?) This second way is to use violence and vigilante justice. Whens omeone hits oyu, you hit them back harder. The consequence of the first is you might win the legal fight, but it can take years. The consequences of the second is that you become the aggressor and become worse than the crimes you complain about. We have to step back from vengeance and hatred, and argue the issue of justice with reason, common sense and a commitment to principle. We do not do what others do unto us. We do not call someone a criminal for doing something to use and then turn around and do the same and worse to them. We Palestinians need to take back our just cause from the fanatics and failed leaders who represent us and fight the right way, with the power of principle, the power of justice, the power of law, and the power of truth. That means that when they kill us, we don't try to kill them back. We fight them with the power of justice, principle, truth and law. That means that when some of our people kill them and do to them what they are doing to us, we must speak out against them, too. Standing by truth works. It requires belief and faith greater than even religious faith. That's what I have. I believe in truth and principle and being fair to them and us. Palestinians are suffering. They are being attacked. Their land is being stolen. They are slandered by hate speech in the Israeli media and Israeli politicians like SHaransky and Lieberman far worse than what is said by Hamas. But the answer is not to walk away from doing the right thing to surrender to the anger, emotion and hatred. The right thing is to put principle, truth, justice and the law in front of you and fight back the moral way. Until we do that, fanatics in Israel will continue to steal our land, kill our children, slander us with impunity in the Hebrew press and ignore our rights, hiding behind our own misdeeds. It's easy to be a fanatic. It takes courage and strength and most importantly of all, belief in yourself and the justice of your cause to do the right thing. Ray Hanania www.hanania.com

I identify completely with Ray Hanania's exhortation to "say what is right" and to "stand up for principle". I wonder, however, what Ray Hanania says is "right". Is it the Israeli occupation? Or is it the fight against the Israeli occupation? Or is it something else? A fair reading of this column tells me that Ray says to the Palestinians: Submit quietly to your oppression. If Ray Hanania has an alternative tactical proposal for the fight against the occupation, what is it? What principle does Ray Hanania stand up for? Is it the principle of equality between citizens and nations? Or, is it the "principle" that might makes right? I would like Ray Hanania to lay out his own views about the principles that must guide an oppressed people (isolated, unarmed, and poorly led) in their struggle against their oppressor (heavily armed, well-organized, and enjoying the support of the world's major superpower). Is it the principle: Never, under any circumstances, target children or old men? Or is it: Never, under any circumstances, say or do anything that demeans the enemy? Ray Hanania needs to clarify what's "right" and what's "principled" in these circumstances, of overwhelming disparity in power. The message in Hanania's present column might greatly be appreciated by supporters of the status quo. Does Hanania have anything constructive to say, any positive way forward to propose to the Palestinians?

Just look at Post #13, where he writes "They are slandered by hate speech in the Israeli media and Israeli politicians like SHaransky and Lieberman far worse than what is said by Hamas" So Sharansky and Lieberman are worse than Hamas, your integrity is officially thrown out of the building. and again "Until we do that, fanatics in Israel will continue to steal our land, kill our children, slander us with impunity in the Hebrew press and ignore our rights, hiding behind our own misdeeds."

In Israel , Mickey Mouse is used as an expression or low grade professional quality. It is NEVER used in that context in the United States.

Ray is being very ambigious in what hes saying - i mean does he submit to the enemy or wat?

B"H There might be some who say, "Hamas is doing a great job of making it hell for the Arabs so they move out." But of what benefit is Hamas to anyone? As soon as the Jews and Arabs figure out that riddle, I think it might become apparent that the Hamas induced war is of no benefit to Israel and it is of no benefit to the Arabs to who live there, except to get rid of this baseless hatred. A society cannot function with the way Hamas is leading it, and the Arab society is on the verge of collapse there. A soceity can overcome military moves, but one that cannot overcome internal hatred is destined to its destruction. The missiles do not scare me anymore. Every missile launch more hurts the Arabs then the Jew, because for the Arabs that launch because an expression of hate, and for the Jew that missile brings mutual love. This war is a disaster for the Arabs Ray, and I am not mincing words with you. Hamas is quite literaly one of the greatest disasters the Arabs who live in Israel have faced in recent times. Either it goes or the entire population goes. It is not something the Jewish people will induce. We Jews did the same thing a long time ago and got most of ourselves expelled with a small number renaming. It is the hand of G-d coming forth as I see it.

Palestinians are suffering. They are being attacked. Their land is being stolen. They are slandered by hate speech in the Israeli media and Israeli politicians like Sharansky and Lieberman far worse than what is said by Hamas. (from Ray at #10) No matter how maderate Ray likes to portray himself, he is a manipulator of the highest order and uses stupid moral equivilances like the above quoted. No body steals your land, no body unjustly kills you. Lieberman has never called for the extermination of Palestinians (he has called for transferance, i will grant to you) unlike Hamas which has repeatedly called for the destruction of Jews and Israel. Ray, the Palestinians have not shown one act of good faith towards Israel. Israel has 1) given money, 2) unilaterally pulled out of Gaza 3) allows Palestinians to work in Israel (want me to go on, or are you already screaming "lies!"?) The Palestinians have yet to show Israel and indeed the world that they are committed to the peace process and healing the past. They only show juvenile temper tantrums, genocidal declarations, political and structural ineptidude and a highly developed sense of victimhood. If and when the Palestinians come to the table with bona fide intentions of creating a solution and peace that is just, equitable and most of all, final - we can be neighbors. Until then, enjoy those sour grapes you seem to be so fond of.

with love - islam will walk through the gates of jerusalem as brothers.. choose love islam - and you shall be allowed back in

Hamas is to be congratulated for saying it out loud. First, Zionist Jews in 1947 to 1949 came into Palestine with guns blazing in 531 villages, causing three quarters of a million Palestinians to flee. Slowly, Israel has ground the bones of Palestinians to dust. Arm twisted them into accepting an average of a thousand dollars a year income. Stole 90 percent of their water, and continue to do so to this day. Walk in anytime they please, saying security situation, we are taking your land. They are crunching the Palestinians into smaller and smaller spaces. In the Palestinian media I read of soldiers beating up Palestinian citizens daily. I read of horrible conditions in the Israeli jails. Israel is inhuman in its treatment of Palestinians. Israel deserves every Palestinian's hatred. Thank God that Hamas says it out loud. The Palestinians have every right to seek to destroy their oppressors and their killers. If they do not, they will be crushed under the iron heel of Israel. Notice that the moment that Israel starts acting human toward the Palestinians, Hamas lets go. They want peace, but they know that their oppressor does not, that their oppressor wants them dead or gone, one of the two, so that Israel can have all Palestinian land for itself. I don't call that recognition by Hamas extremism. I call it realism.

Ray, I'm one of the people who still belives in peace between israelis and palestinians. a concept easy to think of when you live abroad, but very hard to think of when you live over here............ i agree with what you said my friend, and i respect you, you are one of the good voices out there.........we say in arabic (a hand in water is not like a hand in fire) ....my orginal post was not an attempt to dump responsibility as my Israeli friend DD thought i was doing, on the contrary, we have failed misrably as a nation on so many levels, we have allowed the violence to go unchecked, until it became an epdemic.....it has a mind of its own now...........my post was intended so that the readers mainly the israeli readers can get a true undersatnding of the situation, what is missing this conflict, is a true undersatnding of cause and effect. you make peoples lives a daily blood bath, and a fight for the most rudementary basic needs, don't expect them to end up a peace loving nation who stand for justice, becasue they have never seen justice in their lives (and we say in arabic, one who does not have the thing, cannot give it). people are back to the very bascis now, and have no way out but to turn to god, which is the only thing they have these days. turning to god means seeing life through a perspectice of relegion, and the purspective of relegion is black and white, and does not understand compromise. israel has a right to defend itself from the madness of crazy suicide bombers, and indiscrminate violence against their civilians, yet the have missed the boat, because they have made our lives collectively so misrable that we are now a disfunctional nation, that operates based on backward, and vigilanty -eye for eye principles. i don't think the israeli public is evil, i think they are scared and are not sure how to get out of this....their leaders on the other hand, should no better, they should no that this whole simplistic collective punishment approach that has been adopted has runied us, and will come back and ruin them also. what i'm asking for is for some pressure to be reduced on us so that we could take care of our lousy, misrable, and dooms-day driven leadership.....in other words, if they really want peace and quiet, they should help us help our selves! other than that, we are both doomed...........i by no way mean this as propaganda against israel, and i don't mean to give my people a free pass, on the contrary, i want every one to understand the reality of the situation...because i want peace, and i'm afraid if this keeps on going on the way it is right now, we will reach a tipping point where this is not fixable, and it is coming very fast .... let me know what you think, i'm interested in your response .....

Great to hear so much sense and humanity. The Palestinians are having a tough time. They don't deserve it. But if do things that are barbaric then that is how they will be seen. If they do things that are responsible, like running decent schools which don't preach hatred, they'll be seen as responsible.

from babies. Do you believe EVERY SINGLE "news article" that is printed in their media or said on their tvs? If so, you are so dense and so lame going on this website, your'e parents shouldn't have made love that one night, as you are nothing but a waisted seed.

Unforutnately, you seem to be living in an anarchist state where there is no rule of law and the "government" is ruled by greedy mafia-style gangsters who don't give a hoot for your welfare and just want as much power as possble. Ray Haninia [sp?] is kiddding himself if he thinks truth and justice can prevail in that sort of poisonous environment. His idealistic talk is not going to change reality for you and your neighbors. Israeli doesn't give a damn about your problems; they just want to take out the people who are trying to destroy them. Here's my suggestion: It is the Palestinian people, not the Israelis, who need urgently to petition and demand that the Kings of Jordan and Saudi Arabia help work out a reasonable settlement that will be acceptable to Israel and the rest of the Arab world.

they'd have a sovereign state in Jordan-Palestine within months.

In the United States, we use "Mickey Mouse" as a pejorative as in "they run a real Mickey Mouse [lousy] operation over there."

Palestanians DID and still DO want Hamas... But since Israel doesn't, then who cares about Palestanians? Because that's Israel's policy, as long as you're a non-Israeli you're a subhuman.

Maybe you should start looking around, and look at the ethnic cleansing that has been well under way in the Sudan for quite some time. Where are your principles here. How about the cleansing of Bethlehem of most christians. Too bad you just are on one side of the argument.