Opinion
Wisdom of waiting
Dr. Michael Oren
Published: 20.05.07, 09:19
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11 Talkbacks for this article
1. Eshkol was Olmert's opposite
Ilan ,   Ariel   (05.20.07)
Eshkol was the opposite of Olmert''s style over substance, and that probably is why history has not been kind to him. Perhaps if people pay more heed to Oren's excellent work that will change.
2. Wisdom of waiting
Simon ,   London   (05.20.07)
An interesting analysis, the problem is that in today’s environment of instant 24 hour news, politicians don’t exercise wisdom. Instead they react to the news and make decisisions based on political expediency. Following Winograd the current administration is even more likely to make knee jerk reactions rather than use the “wisdom of waiting”.
3. does history repeat itself
alan ,   Kodiak Alaska   (05.20.07)
This piece from the author of the most exhaustive and probably best study of milhemet sheshet hayomim tries to apply the mistakes and successes of that pivotal war to the present situation. But note bene. Our enemies have read the book. And the change in technological capabilities for annihilation raises the stakes several thousand percent. Many wars have been launched on fears, some not justifiable through time'e eye. Others not undertaken have had unintended consequences. Mr Oren's words of wisdom need due diliberation.
4. A war.
cfs ,   Toulouse, FRANCE   (05.20.07)
But what will happen after war ? If Israel win, will be another lands occupied and another 40 years of war for those lands ? If Israel lose, what will happen ? world war 3 ? A war after another war ? Gaza withdraw is not a failure, not after one year, perhaps after 10 years of quassams but not after 1 year, and for a total West bank also need a withdraw.
5. Uber pogrom meister Mike
Ben Temalion ,   Shiloh, MO USA   (05.20.07)
So many can be great in many ways but fail desperately in others. Mike is sadly not exceptional on this count in that while speaking well of a secure position for IL he weakens that position by using words like “West Bank”, with capital “W” and capital “B” and the father of de-Judaizing terms (2 millennia old) “Palestinian” with a big “P”. As if there was no better way to de-legitimize the very existence of IL than to engage in the use of the nation’s terms to relieve IL of its sovereignty. I see Mike as a very articulate self-loather. But not quite as extreme, or is that mainstream, as Segev, Morris, Finkelstein and the ever so popular master of self-flagellation Chomsky. I am not sure what to make of Mike since he says one thing, but acts to reward those who threaten IL at least in some cases. He is a much braver man than I as I believe he went to Lebanon last summer with a mission that had perhaps un-achievable objectives that are now somehow forgotten. The will was there to free the kidnapped soldiers, but the resolve to do everything possible wasn’t. In his aggressive acceptance of a previous mission he went on, I don’t see anything approaching brave, acting with valor and loyalty, but something born out rather of blind hatred and self-loathing. With his use of terms using a capital “W”/”B”/”P”, he is acknowledging there are those who have some right to reclaimed Jewish land instead of wishing the others that they find happiness in having their right of return to their homicidal, Hamite peninsular homeland enforced as speedily as possible. Mike is far from stupid as are your other enemies. Mike speaks of ’67 as if it was a success to learn from. To learn from yes in as much as all experience is but Mike fails to note the ever so problematic effect of the less than principled Dayan handing the key to Har Ha Bayit back to those that come to kill you. There is at least another lesson to learn from ’67. Without surrender, you don’t have success and will possibly be in a perpetual war with non uniformed remnants of those who come to kill you while shielding themselves with their own. And to use all measures at your command would be bad manners in the eyes of the world which Mike has so much invested in by fearing. Mike does not believe in removing the threat despite those words in this missive. Sderot and other places were attacked long before Jews were expelled from the reclaimed land stained with Jewish blood in Aza. Mike has a special feeling for Aza, err Jews living there I hear. He made it his mission to even volunteer, I hear, to ensure the implementation of the Mitzna plan, that Sharon would cause “painful concesions”, not to Mike or Sharon directly, but to those who died to reclaim it and then have the land cast off as if was nasty plague, and lived on it and can now no longer rebuild their lives AND painful to those who are in ever the more danger because Jews do not live on that land that protects you all, YET Mike was hell bent on no Jew living there. Mike may be hell bent on rewarding the mass-murdering remnants of wars without surrender with the Golan, Judea and the Shomoron. Mike that means Jewish land some of which you refer to with a capital “W” and a capital “B” to deny the Jews historical, moral, legal and Yea Jewish right to live on their land.
6. Michael Oren 73 War
Sam Weinstein ,   USA   (05.20.07)
You should check to see what happened in 1973. I was there and witnessed buses of soldiers being rounded up in Jerusalem on October 5th around 7 PM 18 hours before the attack. One soldier told me someting up north was happening. Israel knew of the 73 attack and did nothing. Why those are answers I have been wanting to know for years. I am sure most of those soldiers picked up died the next day. Please investigate. Why did we wait then?
7. Pick Your Spots Israel
Dave Levy ,   Burbank. CA USA   (05.21.07)
Sam Weinstein has some interesting points. If the IDF knew, then why allow the surprise attack? It doesn't seem logical, sort of like Bush knew of the WTC bombings beforehand. The situation currently is not the same as 67, or 73. Hamas and Hezbollah do not threaten Israel's existence at all. In a few years, Iran might get aggressive. But now is now. Israel needs patience to avoid this thing blowing up further. Syria w/o Egypt cannot make war..intimidate, annoy, cause some pain, yes, but not war. The LAF is now fighting Palestinians in Lebanon. Hezbollah is surrounded by the UN and IDF. Hamas is noisy, but poorly armed (compared to Israel). The PA minister is crying dirty pool (in the US of all places-trying to garner support). With Carter and Bush fighting over Bush's Iraqi policy, Israel should lie low...pick it's spots, and keep on wasting militant Palestinians. Remember, Damascus is closer to the Golan, than Tel Aviv is to Damascus. Israel has the high ground. It should strike when appropriate..as it is now doing. If Hezbollah starts up again, bunker busters and cluster bombs should be used by the IDF.
8. That Was Then and Now is Now
Dave Levy ,   Burbank. CA USA   (05.21.07)
To Sam Weinstein: More than likely, your govt didn't really know of the pending attack. Had they, the war would have started differently. That said: "that was then and now is now". Forget it, and forget any investigation or concern. Syria might launcha surprise attack using Scuds..and forays into the Golan, aided by Hamas and Hezbollah as diverstions. But that would be suicide for Assad. Smart bombs, bunker busters and clusters can take out Hamas and Hezbollah permanently..invading tanks, could follow up, but artillery must soften up the invasion routes. I would use phosphorous and incendiaries against fortified positions. W/O Iran and Egypt's involvement, Syria would be commiting suicide.
9. One Note Oren
Dan Friedman ,   NYC USA   (05.21.07)
This guy a book and there invests all his intellectual capital. He is like the comedian who lives off the same stale material for years. Oren's shtick is that like yesteryear Israel needs to "justify its position to international public opinion." In other words, Jews need to have the world's permission before they save themselves. This is a weak, self-destructive worldview and the opposite of what Israel should be doing.
10. lesson of the history
bukla ,   jerusalem   (05.21.07)
i like lessons from any thing but in evru ocasion the time is not the same time .. and in that the older persons said it is a different time // so 1967 is not like 20010 .. so lessons of waiting is different as waiting is related to time .. but lessons of discussion is better in that aspect
11. In the end, Israel gets no credit for waiting
James Michael Price ,   Herndon, VA, USA   (05.22.07)
Israel waited years in the face of attacks from southern Lebanon before invading in 1982. Today, Israel is called the agressor in that war as well as the 1967 war. Everything preceeding June 05, 1967 has been swept under the rug, including and especially the Palestinian Arab state created in 1947 and the subsequent 18 years of Jordanian and Egyptian occupation of "The Occupied Territories". Israel will again be declared the agressor, so forget that fantasy and end the slaughter of your people. End the slaugher Now.
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