the poles gladly handed over there jews to them with all gladness indeed. the poles long hated the jews before hitler came to power. this was just there way of saying thanks hitler for making the first move

might be problematic for the polish as they used to see jews going to the deaths camps by train !! we all know that polish are great anti -semite they like us to come to auwshwitz just for the money that they get from the "tourist " !!

It may have been the Germans who devised and planned the concentration camps, but there was a reason they chose to build most of them on Polish soil, and that is because the Poles were anti-Semites from birth, and were willing collaborators. The Poles should keep that in mind before they complain.

It just goes to show you that the only Jews that non-Jews like are dead ones. G-d forbid these living Jews that the Nazis YM"S didn't wipe out dare come back to Poland and show the Poles that the Jewish people cannot be destroyed.

The answer is that I can't ! It's illegal in the only democracy in the ME, Israel. Regarding your conclusion, when you declare that you finally pointed out what's the problem of the Poles... well, can you please explain to me the event of 4 IAF F-15's flyby over the death camp ? Will Israel ever allow Egypt to make such a demonstration of arabism over Israel ? I wish for all Israel youth to keep walking wrapped in Israeli flags, to exercise the freedom in Poland, and maybe they finally get how silly they're abroad when they walk out of the cage. Regarding the lesson of the holocaust. Israel is the only place where the Shoah is used to teach nationalism and is constantly used to justify the existance of the state of Israel even with the price of expelling other people from their homes. It's a shame ! The lesson of the holocaust is universal, and the danger is universal ! People of an intellectual background should give their thought on the way Shoah is presented to the Israeli youth and makes them wrap themselves in flags and experience a national orgazm, a visit to Auschwitz isn't a football match, and it should not be used by Israel for political/nationalistic purposes. Shoah Business is another shame, but we're not dealing with it right now.

Long before Nazis came poles were competing with kozaks of Bogdan Khmelnitsky for the largest number of Jews killed, tortured and raped. The horror stories of polish pogroms are endless. Guides of the tours should emphasize that, first and foremost. Nazis crimes were impossible with out the help of Poles, French, Ukranians, Lithovenians and Russians. Nations who felt it was wrong to kill millions of Jews actually made it known - see the King of Denmark.

in the puerto rico day parade in new york city people are waving the puerto rican flag all over the city and it's not a problem to nobody. so why it's a problem for the poles to see israeli flags. the answer is simple: antisemitism

Wasn't Poland one of the more anti-Semitic countries in Europe? Didn't the Poles assist the Nazis in rounding up their Jews? Seems that I read, after the war Poles murdered Jews who returned to Poland from the death camps. Poland is a very anti-Semitic Catholic country, isn't it?

My grandparents were killed during the Shoah and I knew about it before I could read. But I don't think that wearing the flag outside of aholocaust memorial is proper. I know that we would not appreciate German or Polish youth parading around Israel with their national flags on their backs.It is very important for Israeli youngsters to meet with educated youth in all countries that have diplomatic relations with us. Good manners come before book learning.

What type of person wears a flag? I've seen it before and always thought it weird non-normative behavior. By the standards of the US it is showing disrespect to the flag. Is this an attempt to mimic a tallit? And these people laugh at the Hareidim...

The Rabbi of a "jewish" community in poland spoke to us yesterday and told us many instances of Poles being in shock of jews. one of those instances he told us was when he was in a cab going to Krakow, the driver was friendly in the beginning and started speaking to him in polish. the driver noticed the Rabbi wasn't a native polish speaker...the driver asked the Rabbi "i see you speak Ukrainian?", "yes" answered the rabbi, "you also speak Russian?" asked the driver, "yes" answered the Rabbi. "so you are Georgian?!" asked the driver. "Ne, Zyd"("no, a Jew") answered the Rabbi. The drivers went into shock, his hands left the wheel and the car started drifting into the other lane... he finally got himself together and pulled the car back into the other lane. the rest of the journey was silent. The rabbi TOLD us about 10 other stories like this and told us that there were countless others instances where people were scared or shocked of seeing a "Jew".

I assume there is such Jewish custom to light candles for the memory of deceased (not unlike the Russian Orthodox church's). If that is true, it is advisable for the museum staff to arrange safe candlelabras. There is a lot of wooden churches in Russia and a lot of candles in every one but fires are rare (the staff has 2,000 years of experience). The schedule of the trips looks badly thought also. I remember my school trips (over Soviet Union) and I remeber well one thing - my legs _ached_. We did no less than 6 hours of excursions daily over a week or so. We did museums, graveyards, monuments, memorials, waterfalls, famous trees, everything was thrown at us, scholars. After being unloaded from bus at 5 p.m. at the hotel there was no room for a midnight football, for example. Although a bit of fight and a black-eye found it's way into once :) Well, "tours of the camps" definitely mis-managed tours. If kids came this far into Europe, into Poland, then show them a country also. Not only dead people but a living Poles too. Which town is near Oswiecim? I bet it is 500 years old at least. Tour them to exhausting, "keep'em busy" is old sergeant saying. And there just won't be any inappropriate behavior from the youths. Mind you, rates for school groups are low everywhere.

you're not making any sense. The flight over Auschwitz was a beautiful act showing that we didn't die despite what Arabs and Nazis want.

the flag is not the problem. and it obviously should not be. There's nothing bad in wearing the israeli flag in Auschwitz, it just remembers to everybody that the Jews not only survived the plans of extermination but now have their own state. Nobody has the right to complain against the flag. But the cell phones, yes, they are a problem and a serious problem; also the bad behaviour of israeli youth in poland is(i had the possibility to see it by myself). So, put things in proportion: wearing flags has nothing to do with the most simple and vulgar lack of education. The latter should be avoided, and being jews does not authorize us to behave arrogantly in other countries and in the camps that are the cemetery of our people.

I have no argument with the need for appropriate behavior. I agree that youngsters have behaved badly on some occasions. However, the issue of the flag puzzles me. What is it exactly about an Israeli draped in a flag that offends you? This article does not make that clear. From my perspective the wearing a flag is a statement to the Jews murdered by the millions that could be saying 'We are stil alive, we are remembering you, and we have a Jewish home now'. I don't think that it's anything designed to offend anyone else, but since it does, I would appreciate an explanation. We need to understand each other.

Neither all Poles nor all Germans were bad. Still, it must be said that a climate of anti-semitism pervaded those countries and all of Europe, and that this anti-semitism is what allowed the Holocaust to occur. The anti-semitism transcended all levels of society: religious (both Protestant and Catholic), academic, political, secular -- you name it. Those who saw the evil for what it was also transcended all levels of society. It also needs to be said that many Poles feared and suffered at the hands of the Nazis. None of this washes away Polish anti-semitism, but it is a fact that needs to be acknowledged. Germans held Poles in very low regard. They were considered only marginally better than Jews. This is why the death camps were built in Poland. People do their dirty work in bad neighborhoods and not in the country club areas; and so to Germany, Poland was the ideal bad neighborhood in which to slaughter millions of innocent people.

Michelle: Historically, flags are not mere pieces of cloth but very potent symbols. In the past, you would only see a foreign flag on your territory during a battle. As a Pole I do find it mildly disturbing when foreign nationals fly (or wear as it might be the case here) their gigantic national flags in Poland. Of course, there are exceptions including international sporting events (they are like ritualized battles after all) during which such displays of nationalism by foreign supporters are OK (although usually they do get an earful ;-)). Israeli kids wearing or flying their national flags during the March of the Living, or inside the camps they visit is perfectly fine – I would be surprised if they did not do it. But I would draw the line here. So Israeli kids walking through the streets of Polish cities, flanked by armed Israeli bodyguards, and flying their national flags is a bit too much. What is the purpose of this exercise? Frankly, I do not think other European nations are any different in this respect - as a Pole I would never ever even consider flying my national flag abroad, unless I wanted to have my face rearranged. Maybe in Israel it is common for foreign nationals to fly their own flags while roaming the streets of Tel-Aviv, and the local population welcomes it, but somehow I doubt it. In any case, when in Rome... Hope it helps.

Its the Magen David, if the flag was just blue and white you wouldnt hear a wimper. Its simply the Star of David because that being shown openly and not hidden, is like feces on their collective faces. Whilst it shows them defiance in the face of horrors and not subjugated as the "Jew" ought to be, it also reminds them just exactly who they are and what part they played in our history. As Clinton the putz would put it "Its the Magen David stupid".

In some aspects, this article resembles anti-Semitic rants. "It's hard to believe that these positions were not coordinated", "The Israeli delegations leave large sums of money behind". Yeah...sure. It's all planned in smoke-filled rooms and it's all about money...Every time there is an article denouncing anti-Semitic incidents in Poland, the anti-Semites also talk about "coordinated attacks" and "holocaust business". Apparently, defensiveness produces similar responses. The Museum's reaction was probably linked to the article, but "related" is not "coordinated". And each year, Poland is visited by 16 millions tourists who leave behind some 8 billions USD.

First, nobody says it offends all the Poles, nobody asked for our collective opinion on the issue. I personally have very warm feelings towards Israel and Israeli flags. The complaint was lodged by the Museum's management, and I wished I knew what they wrote exactly. To me it sounds controversial and I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand it's a free country and it's nobody's business who walks with what flag and where, especially if there is a reason. But if there is a problem, I don't think it's the display of Israeli pride that is causing it. Poland is less anti-Israeli (or more pro-Israeli) than most Western European countries. What is potentially problematic is that we are not sure of those kids' intentions. Various incidents allow us to suspect that they often have a biased vision of history and end up looking at Poles as if we were Nazis. As a consequence they wave those flags "in our face" so to speak, as an act of misplaced defiance to us. You may ask yourself why do we suspect such things, and I could give more details if anybody is interested. Maybe we are very wrong, but it's hard to tell without having more contact with those youngsters. Other than that, I think that oversaturation with nationalistic symbols can create problems by itself. I once participated in Catholic Youth days in Canada when JPII was still alive. The participants usually carried some national symbols (t-shirts, hats, flags), especially Poles. It was fine and mostly harmless, but there were moments when I suspected that we (the Poles) were getting on other people's nerves. There is a limit of what you can express in such a way. At some point it becomes oversaturated and others begin to wonder what is really your goal.

"So Israeli kids walking through the streets of Polish cities, flanked by armed Israeli bodyguards, and flying their national flags is a bit too much. What is the purpose of this exercise?" The purpose of 'this exercise' is to allow these children, who have now come face to face with what your country allowed to happen to its own Jewish countrymen, a chance to do what their slaughtered families could never even dream of ever doing. Walk through a Polish street with a flag adorned with a Star of David. The only thing that you should busy yourself worrying about is why, after all this time, do they still have to walk around with bodyguards and why they're still attacked in the streets. I guess Poles haven't really changed that much.

1. As someone already said here I also do not think that wraping oneself in any flag is a sign of respect. That is why I do not like when someone wrap himself in Polish flag (like football fans do). 2. Frequently behaviour of this Israeli youth visiting Poland is quite defiant. I believe that wearing flags like that may raise their patriotic/national feelings to the level amounting to provocation. Giving delicate and emotional nature of Polish - Jewish relations it makes sense (at least for me) to abandon such a practice on the streets - of course I do not mind if Israelis demonstrate their feelings in any way they find appropriate during fhe visit to the camp. With best regards. K.

Do you think it could be a suicide cab driver who finally found his Jewjsh victim? PS. I do not believe this story is true

Mark: I think you misunderstood me. I find ANY foreigners flying their national symbols in Poland (with the exception of a few cases I mentioned in my previous post) whatever their inner reasons for doing so. Personally, it is beyond me why on Earth the Israelis think their kids need armed protection while in Poland. If anything, it creates a physical and psychological barrier between them and the local folks. Our society is not violent by any stretch of imagination, and it is not customary for anybody (but the cops and really, really bad guys) to carry weapons. Why not live the sense of the ever-present danger at home, go to Poland, interact with the locals and find for yourselves what the country is really like. But do not demonize it by your charged rhetoric – it is not helpful.

How ignorant and uneducated one can be?! I am reading these posts, full of hatred toward Poles and Poland and I am completely speechless. These posts are simply dumb. Before spreading nonsense like 'Yes it was the Germans with the gleeful help of the Poles' read some history books, morons. Poland was so grateful to Hitler for 'making the first move'. What a garbage. Show me ANY reliable document that Poles helped Germans killing Jews! And THINK!, think it does not hurt!!!

Well, you can read the response number 19 to know what I mean. Would you be happy if foreign nationals waved their flags in Israel knowing that some of them consider that it is like "feces on your collective faces"?

"what your country allowed to happen to its own Jewish countrymen" - And what could have it done to prevent the camps - any ideas? "The only thing that you should busy yourself worrying about is why, after all this time, do they still have to walk around with bodyguards" This is ridiculous...They do not walk with bodyguards because it is necessary, they walk with bodyguards because they THINK it is necessary. So no, we should not be busy wondering why it's necessary because we know IT ISN'T. Instead we have the right to wonder what the heck the organizers believe we are. Many Jewish groups visit Poland without guards (for example the Hasidim) and I never heard of any problems. "why they're still attacked in the streets" - They are? Any examples? Your comment just underlines what I wrote to Michelle - if we knew that the display of nationalist symbols was an expression of positive pride and/or aimed at Nazi Germans, we wouldn't mind. But many people on this talkback confirm what we suspect - namely that they are aimed AT US and linked to a host of biased and unfair attitudes towards our country.

Your article reminded me a smart feuilleton by Stefan Kisielewski (hope you know who he was) about use of quotation marks by Communist press. Thank you very much for refreshing my memory - it has to be some forty years ago.