Opinion  Ron Ben-Yishai
Crybabies don't win wars
Ron Ben Yishai
Published: 21.07.07, 17:58
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33 Talkbacks for this article
1. WHY SHOULD WE SACRIFICE SO THE HAREDIM CAN DO NOTHING???
(07.21.07)
That rhetorical question gives you the reason that most young Israelis would rather not fight and die for a country that allows the self-proclaimed "religious" segment of society to avoid doing their duty as citizens. I say draft'em and if they refuse jail'em.
2. armchair generals
Steven ,   CA, USA   (07.21.07)
Armchair generals are quick to spend the blood of others. A thousand deaths later, the kidnapped soldiers still haven't been recovered. Israel needs to stop using George Bush's playbook.
3. Will you also draft Olmert's children?
Alex ,   LA, USA   (07.21.07)
Will draft children from Ramat Aviv? Will you druft children from Ramat Gan? Will you draft children of Kadima people?
4. Are you surprised?
MK ,   Atlanta, USA   (07.21.07)
Today, Israel is run by wimps.
5. IDF must fight bravely
Roxanne ,   israel   (07.21.07)
To quote George Bush "Our nation,this generation,willlift the dark threat of violence from our people and our future.We will rally the world to this cause by our efforts,by our courage.We will not tire,we will not falter and we will not fail"! For if we fail we are done for as a nation! So rally the troops, prepare the homefront and kick Iranian and Syrian terrorists back into the stone age!
6. Is sacrifice out of solders' lexicon?
Ed Gershenson ,   Boston, USA   (07.21.07)
Great and very true analysis! I don't see much of talkback, however. Is everyone in shock?
7. Interesting thoughts
DavidE ,   USA   (07.21.07)
In my view, the kidnappings should not have triggered a war. The war should only have been fought when the IDF had clear objectives. It seems that Ohlmert was hyper sensitive to casualties. Look, Israel lost 5,000 in the War of Independence and more than 1,200 in the 1967 War. You don't win a war by worrying about the body count.
8. Agree 100%
Moshavnik ,   Israel   (07.21.07)
I served in the army and reserves for 20+ years and I agree 100%. SOldiers should know that they may be called upon to die defending their country. We are surronded by enemies and the army should be used to defend the country agianst them. The situation in the area surronding Gaza is a good example. Even if 500 soldiers must die to stop the missile fire it should be done, and I say this as someone who's son is ina combat unit.
9. Crybabies don't win wars & crying mothers topple governments
Uzi ,   Haifa   (07.21.07)
10. THIS ARTICLE is 110% correct. We are doomed if.....
j ,   jerusalem, israel   (07.21.07)
....this mentality does not change fast!
11. This article is 100% correct
Rod ,   Fargo N.Dakota   (07.21.07)
The mission and objective is always first and foremost.
12. SIMPLY THE BEST ANALYSE I HAVE READ SINCE YEARS !!!
stephane ,   france   (07.21.07)
13. This article is scaring me!!!
Chaya ,   Bat Yam, Israel   (07.21.07)
Our soldiers have to know that they might not come back; but they also have to know that this sacrifice is for the good of the country. Without this mindset, we are all doomed! A change of government will be a good first step!!
14. Very serious issue, good article and unfortunate title.
Uzi ,   Haifa   (07.21.07)
15. Amazing Article. Agree 100%
Ari   (07.21.07)
16. SOLDIERS, FROM BASIC TRAINING ON, GO HOME ON LEAVE AND CRY
David ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (07.21.07)
To mom. During the week, the complain to mom and dad that their mefaked is being mean. This has been going on for a long time. So now, we have commanders on up the chain of command that are also complainers. BUT, give them and the Yasamnikim an easy foe, the Jews trying to hold on to our land, and all of a sudden they become Lions and Tigers. Because its easier to beat up your own people that aren't willing to return the favor. Put those all together and you have absolutely no esprit de corp. No wonder the Syrians think that they have a chance.
17. To # 1
Mother of a Soldier   (07.21.07)
You are incredible. Incredibly stupid, that is. This is an important, and frightening article about the military preparedness of our forces - could you just grow up and leave your hatred of religious out of it for once. What good could come out of it is in us learning the lessons - but no, that might risk something far greater - why unite and make Israel strong when we can all split and divide ourselves and hate the haredim. What a moron. Sorry, but could you possibly put your hatred aside for two stinking minutes and focus. What a mess Israel finds itself in...if that is all you can think about when reading this.
18. To #17
tma   (07.22.07)
Are you really the mother of a soldier, such as I am, or are you in fact, a haredi? I never was so angry with the haredim as when my son started in army service. Who the hell are the haredim that my son has to risk his life while they sit on their fat asses all day, contributing nothing to society????
19. By the book - Israeli winging it
Josh   (07.22.07)
Israelis are very bad at doing what they are told or following proceudures in order to keep things running smoothly and avoiding additional costs. Too often Israelis take command upon themselves as they think they no best. Parents need to teach their children to behave and respect authority - not decide for themselves. The also need to instruct them on the benifits of following proven procedures. When they are an adult, then they can decide for themselves. Children are not being taught the skills they need to be part of a lucrative and sucessful society that can defend themselves. In addition, rabbinical teachings has made Israel wimpy. The idea that Jewsih people should not get angry or raise a hand against Goyim who threatens us is foriegn to Torah. Rather Torah shows a striking conflict to this laying down and being run over teachings of the "wise". To do other than G-d's will is not "wise" sorry rabbis but its not. You cannot indirectly fight a war through barogus or shunning. Face to face is Moses' style. Some will say it is because of the Shoah, but these teachings predate the Shoa. How to wage war with supporting logisitics and an honoured chain of command is something Israel should learn in a hurry. Wimps should be punished for risking our nation.
20. I couldnt have said it better then that
jack bauer ,   usa   (07.22.07)
well written, and point clearly taken
21. the truth hurts
Yisraeli   (07.22.07)
A very accurate and poignant article indeed. The author states it as it is and reveals the ugly truth. The IDF today is a result of the Oslo syndrome. New Middle East. Defense cuts. Less military training. Soft officers up top more interested in "kasach" (kisui tachat) covering ones own butt. Arabs are not the enemies but settlers fellow Jews. The IDF I keep saying buried itself on the sands of Gush Katif. Its no longer the same IDF that those who served in it know. Its not so much the foot soldiers as their commanders and the higher you get the bigger the rot, careers are all theyre interested in. Future political seats, or in Gov institutions. Sad to say this article is 110% true. It wont change either as long as the elitist leftists still control the running of the country, if theres a country left to run at all. Only a 'mhapach' will change the equation and sick condition. The only possible mhapach can only come from one source a Likud led by Moshe Feiglin who intends to return Israel to itself. Who intends to rid the IDF of all those defeatist elements starting with all commanders having a hand in the expulsion of Jews from GK. To have a smaller but highly professional army with those who want to be there in the first place, the rest can go to LA and drive taxis. They are of no use in the IDF. research it for yourself on www.jewishisrael.org
22. Cry babies
Aita Al Shab ,   Southern Lebanon   (07.22.07)
"The resistance was born here, the resistance lives here, and the resistance will never die here" Let's be realisitc here, lebanese people are like lions when it comes to defending their homeland, it really does not matter who tries to invade their land, israelis, french, alexander the great. all will be faced with an unbreakalble zeal, and resolve. we can't be defeated, no matter how strong the enemey is, because we only fear , fear it self
23. Afraid of casualties? Then you've already lost.
Raymond from DC ,   Washington, DC USA   (07.22.07)
The story is told of a naval captain about to set sail. He's asked what he sees as his top priority. He replies, the safety of his men. If that's the case, he's asked, why set sail at all? The author is absolutely correct. Israel is confronting a determined enemy prepared to die. If the IDF isn't prepared for the consequences of defending the country, they have no hope of defeating that enemy.
24. #1 - how low can you get
Daniel ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (07.22.07)
#1, first of all your comments are completely irreleveant. 2nd, many Haredim DO fight in the army. 3rd, may seculars are draft dodgers (including our Prime Minister's sons). 4 Why are you putting all religious into the same category. 5, your ignorance, bitterness and hatred are the real thing dividing this country.
25. The result of years of Leftist rhetoric
A mother of soldiers ,   Negev   (07.22.07)
The far-left rhetoric that has been adopted by the centerist parties like Labor and Kadima has eroded the moral fiber of the nation for the past 25 years. Angry mothers and women in black end up dictatating policy and this is the result. Instead of teaching our sons to fight, we train them to dismantle settlements and throw Jews out of their homes and then get terrorist training bases in their place! This isn't lost on the public. Hopefully in the next election this lo besar / lo halav (not meat and not milk) policy will be laid to rest once and for all and the people will elect real leaders who are interested in protecting the country instead of dismantling it piecemeal, leaving it to the next leaders and fighters to clean up the mess.
26. 16 "because its easier to beat up your own people "
Israel   (07.22.07)
" that aren't willing to return the favor." That, there, is the very secret to a defective organization, relationship, you have it, and is a fatal disease for us - no exaggeration. Americans thrive on it because they don't have the types of threats we do, but it will kill us if we don't return to our behavioral roots that once made this country great.
27. Just a question
Michelle ,   Vancouver   (07.22.07)
I know nothing about the subject but I'd like to know whether the fear of inflicting civilian casualties was a factor in the general performance of the IDF during Lebanon 2. The international reporting of the war was almost entirely focused on the number of innocent victims and the structural damage on the Lebanese side, and it was, as we all know today, deliberately distorted or exaggerated. Maybe someone has a first-hand opinion on this aspect of the war.
28. #23 - another ship captain
Chaya ,   Bat Yam, Israel   (07.22.07)
In another war, a ship captain burned the ships they had sailed on and told him men that there is no escape. They fought until they defeated the enemy.
29. #6 WE LIVE here, so we read and hear and see
Tal   (07.22.07)
our country, and don't just read a couple of internet articles when we have nothing better to do at the office, many of the articles that have already appeared in the weekend papers anyway. ENGLISH ynet does not tell anything to us who LIVE here.. HEBREW ynet ? Maybe a little bit more, but English? A few essays put out for you tourists. We LIVE what we see on our tv screens in our daily news programmes, and in our daily newspapers, you don't, so just sit back ad enjoy your trip. That's all it is for you. A few articles essays, on ynet. Do me a favour Mr., go read a few comics, same value. Preach to Homer.Chutzpah!
30. #29 Tal - So tell us what we're missing
Richard ,   USA   (07.22.07)
Maybe you can tell us in a few words the gist of what we're missing by reading these essays for us "tourists".
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