That about summs up where Israel has come. Surprise surprise your young people dont want to save your sorry asses. They would rather travel the shit holes of the world looking for adventure. Reap what you have sown. Secular Zionism is a crock. It have failed and you will be the korban. Enjoy it!

THIS GOES TO ALL, YESHIVA STUDENTS, LEFTY TEL-AVIVIANS, AND ISRAELI ARABS. PLEASE DON'T TELL ME THAT SHERUT LEUMI (NATIONAL CIVIL SERVICE) IS AGAINST YOUR CONVICTIONS. THERE IS A NEED FOR IT. I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE FACT THAT SOME OF US ARE RISKING OUR SKEEN, WHEN OTHERS DO NOTHING. SO AT LEAST SERVE THE COMMUNITY.

The proper thing would be for all Israelis to do at least national service, with able bodied men getting military training, but I'm not sure how. Tal is meant to address only part of the problem. The part of getting more religious men from the chareidi sector into the workforce. It hasn't worked well yet, but I don't see how vilifying the chareidim accomplishes anything.

I have never understood why studying the military victories of David, Solomon, Joshua, and others (which we now know were mythical) exempted one from service in the IDF.

Boy are all you people stupid and ignorant! Do you think the hareidim don't work? Do you think they survive financially from Bituach Leumi checks? Netanyahu cut those out ages ago. The hareidim do not survive on welfare from the gvt. They have jobs, their jobs may not be what you think but they all have income other than from the gvt. and it is all legal. If you think differently then you must think that Mas Hachasah employs morons who can't track down illegal income! Shame on you your ingnorance shows out from under your hatred!!!!

Most of the times, soldiers are waiting around or doing routine jobs in any army. Israel should give these people compensatory time while in the army to study. If I were an Israel, I would be mad as hell at all of this. It's allowing a sizeable population to shirk what must be a responsibility. Israel does not have a pool of 300m Amerians. We learn now, that Syria has over 1m people in their army. If these Orthodox don't like it, let them move. No work, no army, makes a good Jewish boy dull, and somewhat irrelevant.

what do you say to those cities, sites (e.g. the Kotel, Yad Avshalom) and burial places of all those mentioned in the Bible and Tanach and the fact that Israel belongs to the Jews? And what makes the history of Herzl and BenGurion more factual?

They know pretty well that Haredim work and make a living and pay taxes like everyone else. But they have such a deep hatred of the haredim, that they would make up all kinds of lies to discredit them.

brothers from their Jewish homes like the heartless secular Jews did? The seculars claim "ha'ikur ma shebalev". Where were their "hearts" during the Jewish expulsions they so cruelly dragged out of their homes? If there's no G-d in the heart, you can't expect anything better. Torah purifies the hearts and souls.

Read "The Bible Unearthed" which summarizes what is now known about the real history of the Jewish people. David and Solomon were minor chieftans who never did what the bible says. The kingdom of Israel which is vilified in the bible was much more important than Judah. The key to Judaism is II Kings 20. King Josiah and his priests created Judaism and the mythology that goes with it.

If they work as you say , how is it then that the 2 poorest Jewish towns are Bne Brak and Yeroushalaim where great quantities of them live ?

Yes , and tora gives also fake ordination certificates

No shortage of cannon fodder, but when it comes time to pay for bullets to fight off Nasralla and his ilk... I'll take the secular over the haredi any day. The wussies from Ramat Aviv may dodge the draft, but at least they end up paying taxes to support the guys in green.

Torah (asd it is spelt in English) does not give fake anything. Torah provides only the TRUTH for those who seek it.

but it were tora following rabbanim who gave fake ordinations .

Count the Nobel prizes per capita.

only because the population is. The army is not getting any smaller.

Israelis were among the most patriotic of people. If the series of articles on draft dodging is true, then I fear for the survival of the state.

I find it odd that for every TB criticizing the lack of arab military service there are ten criticizing chareidim. Isn't this bigotry/ I say the arabs should be armed and should be the security at all Peace Now rallies, Labor and Shinui rallies, and be the armed sewcurity guarda at all the secular schools and universities. Anything else is Apartheid.

...exempt from National Service; and you may have military conflicts up ahead. You've GOT to be kidding me...it's NO WONDER everyone else is resentful. I'm a US Vet - IMHO, you'd be better off SPARINGLY issuing out a few exemptions (annual basis, perhaps via lottery?) to ORDAINED RABBONIM.

60,000 JEWISH youth will be visiting Israel in 2007, some staying a full academic year. THESE are QUALITY potential olim. Not ynet policy, I know, to give us news like this. Aim is usually to lower our self esteem and image.

Don't equate Torah with rabbanim. The Torah was given by G-d and offers us the Truth, while rabbanim are human beings. Just because you hate the religious people, doesn't give you the right to lie about the Torah. Stop spreading your venom. You may as well be an Arab for all we know, Charles from Petach Tikva, or is it Ahmed from Kfar Kassem????

SAD. i would want my son to do the same. i do not trust our leaders and the decisions they make. DEPRESSING.

...what they sound like? They don't make sounds anymore - theyre long since dead and gone. Talmud - is forbidden by Devereem. I ahve no desire to become ban like these ban materials. You should try reading the pashoot - after all these are the owrds Moses gave and it was his job to communicate between G-d and the people - or was Moses not good enough for you? There are many in history that have recognized what I see.

cowards, hypocrites and are defrauding the state. The should get student deferments until they graduate Yeshiva and then do some kind of national service like everyone else. There is no Torah basis for their exemption. In fact, the Torah, Talmud., Rambam, etc. make it clear they are to work and be in army unless they are serving in the temple, built a new house or are newly married. This is a real shonda and chilul HaShem.

Well if you doubd about my Jewisness , come to visit me in Petach Tikva , i'll offer you a fine drink in a well known kosher place , and i'll prove you . Ok ? Sunday afternoon , is fine for me . I do not hate religious people , there are very fine amongst them , but sad to say , you do'nt hear very much about them . As always and everywhere , only great prime time news , makes the headlines . Do you know who was the foiunder of Yad Sara ? a charidi , Israel prize winner , the actual mayor of our Capital [ with an impossible name to write correctly ] There are many others , but those you do'nt see them throwing stones with their hatefull faces . See you Sunday ?

Torah Shebiksav (Tanach) and Torah Shebal Peh (Talmud) are one. The Rabbanim did not add anything. If anything, it's you who are decreasing from Torat Moshe.

"If you think differently then you must think that Mas Hachasah employs morons who can't track down illegal income! " Uh, like you mean they really do track down illegal income? Yours, maybe. But something like $15 billion goes unreported each year.

Please present a balanced picture. There are yeshiva units, most notably Nachal Charedi, and Hesder. You did also did not mention that many secular Israeli youth are also not enlisting due to their leftist views.