Why not teach these kids how to drive properly and how to equip themselves adequately for hikes in the desert in record heat? Since, I'm sure, people occasionally get run over by cars on roads, would it make sense to prohibit the use of roads?? Do people actually accept this sort of nonsense? What kind of rules would one apply because people get struck by lightning? Prohibit thunderstorms? Am I missing something?

Like cooking, housework, how to drive safely, how to handle the weather safely... and not just the stack of unuseable medieval rantings that have absolutely no value in today's real world. teach the kids how to hike and camp safely. banning things won't teach nor will it work.

A. If you look in the Torah you will find that the Jewish people are different then others. When Jews died in a war they did not blame their skills or lack of it, only their sins or lack of Torah learning. History showed that when the Jews kept the Torah they were saved NO MATTER what the circumstance was. B. How do you know that these people were not properly equipped with the right gear? Or the boys driving the car were not hit by some 50 year old who dosed off while driving? One thing is for certain, when we learn torah it only does good for us.

I find it interesting that when SECULAR Israelis run off to India and get lost while hiking (like recently), or when SECULAR Israelis run off to India and get murdered for trusting the locals (like recently), NOBODY attacks the general secular population.

"Why not teach these kids how to drive properly and how to equip themselves adequately for hikes in the desert in record heat?" Actually, in the case of the 20-year old, he WAS well prepared with water. Unfortunately, he ran out after he got lost. It could of happened to ANYBODY, so put your hatred aside for just a few moments and clear your head.

they do it to themselves enough already. What the rabbis should tell the young folks is?.....bring a water bottle...a big one or if your dumb just live in a plastic bubble, and never go outside

These yeshivas must teach real life skills and not the superstitious ideas of something protecting you against the real world. what you call 'torah' will not guard you when walking blindfolded across any busy highway or massively planted mine field. Get real ... ignorance is deadly.

I mean, c'mon!!

if i was told to go i would not. it is just common sense. who in there right mind wantsto hike in this heat? are they out of their minds and who in their right mind would allow just a hike in such heat as this anyways? what is wrong with these people? do they not know the dangers of heat stroke? no matter how much water you have sometimes it is isnt enough the heat will over come you anyways.....have some common sense

If Torah saves that much... why all the top Rebbes flew to US during the 2nd WW? They were saved but the members of their congregations died in the same way the secular jews died...

The great schollar teach us that we should not share our water. Isn't it ironic they can teach at all. If they kept an eye on their flock, they would have saved these sheep from wandering in the desert without enough water. These are the men trusted to instruct our children and young men to walk through the spiritual dessert, and they cant even handle the real world. Instruct your students how to take sufficient water and to plan a hiking trip. It should be part of the cirrculum as the pashoot should be too. Who is a wiseman if not the leaders then who should lead us?

back to the pashoot! Enough of the Torah b'peh magic teachings that add when it is forbidden to add to Torah.

history shows that when the Jews kept the tora they were saved , no matter what the circumstance was . You wrote . My question : What about the millions of tora keeping Jews who were murdered during the Shoa ? Now regarding hiking : The Rabbanim can issue as much warnings as they want , there will always be students who think that they are wise , that they know how to behave and that accidents will not happen to them . This is the same in the whole society , sad to say .

The 20 year old was lost and ran out of water . You have to know that when hiking you have to stay with others , not to go alone . When going to India , people are in unknown conditions , maybe travel alone without enough preparation . And even proffesional people can have accidents in those faraway countries . Not hiking here in those very hot conditions is a rule . Even IDF diminish outdoor activity . This is known .

...FALSE JEWSH VALUES like a life made of no work, no exercise, isolation and ignorance, they could FULFIL THE MITSWAH OF WALKING THE LAND LONG AND LARGE... It's time to be REALLY JEWISH, like Rabbi Eliezer, Rabbi Shimon Ben Rabban Gamliel, Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai, Rabbi Jochanan of Gush Chalav, all dressed in WHITE LIKE THE TANNAIM, AND NOT BLACK LIKE THE IDOL WORSHIPPERS OF BAVEL AND XVII CENTURY POLLACKS!

The 20 year old had NO APPROPRIATE SHOES NOR CLOTHES, AS PER RESCUE TEAMS! TIME TO GET OUT OF GALUTH WAYS, WHICH INCLUDES CLOTHES AND LIFE HABITS! ONE HOUR A DAY OF EXERCISE REPEATING MISHNAYOTH, THAT'S WHAT RAMBA"M TEACHES!

But back to the hiking. What is so "goyish" about hiking, and why can't hiking be combined with Torah studies? Doesn't the Torah and the subsequent commentaries teach us to respect our G-d given bodies and lives? And for the idjit who made the crack about 50 year olds falling asleep at the wheel...I repeat, idjit!

The 3 weeks between Tisha B'Av and Rosh Chodesh Elul (which are amongst the hottest weeks of the year) are the only times of the year when these boys have a chance for rest and recreation Israel's climate is not that of Poland or Lithuania. The problem is that for no particular good reasons, these yeshivas regard the weeks after Pesach as periods of mourning and restrict recreational activities during those weeks of wonderful climate

Your post, no pun intended, doesn't hold water. #1 Had this kid been taught that you don't go off by yourself when hiking in unknown territory, he might still be here. #1 If god didn't mean for us to use good sense, he wouldn't have given it to us. Stupid is stupid, regardless of religion, gender or country of origin. As for that hate of which you speak so easily, let me assure you that the good sense god gave me won't let me waste my time and energy on it. Besides, hate allows somebody else to control one's emotions, and I'm just not into that. .

A. You can believe whatever you want to, but the laws of nature apply to everybody equally, and no torah, koran or new testament can change that, regardles of what anybody peddles. The laws of gravity, human reproduction, the speed of light and whatever else you want to look at are no different for Jews than for anybody else, Christians, Buddhists and atheists included. Your entire section A is an insult to the 6 million Jews, who died in concentration camps. B The mere fact that they died of dehydration shows that they were not properly equipped or taught. And I don't care how those kids died driving. Blaming rental cars is just plain stupid. But according to your notions, these kids must just not have kept the torah or surely god would have saved them. Now just which way are you going to play this: bad rental cars or lack of keeping torah? I know this much for sure: All the keeping and waving torah won't do one bit of good against the asshats who are trying to kill you. In case you haven't noticed, they're not using korans or worry beads. They're throwing rockets and blow things up with explosives. Had it not been and were it not for your IDF and their weapons, I wonder how many would be around to keep torah. For crying out loud, give god a break and use the brain he gave you.

So rather than teach proper hiking skill, or defensive driving classes, these Rabbis now ban hiking and driving rental cars. I suppose the next to go with be baths and showers. After all, one might slip and break one's neck. This goes beyond shtus into insanity.

If they have such great power with the lord, and they are so devout and they know everything... why didn't they get a miraculous sign from God and forewarned them? And another thing: How can religiously devout people die in such a senseless death?! - Don't they have God's guidance and divine intervention? Come on! You've got to be kidding me! They're all just a bunch of black-wearing, God-fearing, ridiculous men...

I wonder who'd be to blame, if some kid got creamed using a friend's car. Would they be forbidden to have friends with cars or would somebody tell them that they didn't keep torah? Somebody should, speaking figuratively, slap the s--t out of anybody who pawns off that sort of irresponsible garbage on gullible kids. It borders on child abuse. Now, if somebody were to put the hex on broccoli, because one might choke on it, I could go for that one, hehehehe.

1. I never said one should NOT follow the laws of nature, on the contrary we as Jews are instructed not to disregard the laws of nature, our sages wrote “Ein Somchin AL Haness” we cannot rely on miracles, and the Torah says “V’nishmartem M’ohd L’nafshoseichem” One should watch his body & soul so VERY. So I do not disagree with #22 M. Hartley, G-d definitely wants you to use your G-d given brain. And hikers need to take every precaution to do it in the safest possible way and the same is for car rentals etc.. 2. Nor have I said, that these boys were not torah learners on the contrary we find that G-d takes the good ones to show an example, as we find by the sons of Aaron Hakohen the brother of Moshe (Moses), they were killed as Rashi explains that people would say, If G-D punished them on their small sins, we, that we sin much more of course G-d will punish us, and this causes people to repent. HOWEVER, we know that when a tragedy happens it is a sign for us that we need to repent, and even the people who know that they have no sins, when something happens to them the Talmud says they should blame it on a lack of Torah learning. In this case when we lost to loved brothers, OF COURSE one need s to be as careful as possible, however it is a sign from G-d that we need to repent, starting yeshiva a week early is a good start. The paragraph which I said B.… was said for those of you who by hearing the word Haraidy get turned on and right away start criticizing without knowing the facts, that is ridicules. P.S. I don’t know how the 6 million got into this, but us believing Jews DO NOT question G-d, and if you want, we can go back to the times of the Temple, where we find that the Righteous among us were killed for the sins of the nation, so the righteous being killed together with the wicked goes way back in our history, and that is a total different subject.