Opinion
Rabbis threaten future of IDF
Alex Fishman
Published: 07.08.07, 20:12
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
50 Talkbacks for this article
31. Rabbis and the Army
Edward Said Bouflik ,   Amman Jordan   (08.08.07)
AS an attorney with along history in international relations and intercourse,Ican state that the chief cexistential threat to the State of Israelis the Supreme Court. It has usurped power from the people,since it is not an elected body. The Court has aLeftist anti Zionist agenda. When its rulings are ever criticized, it responds by labeling their critics as undemocratic. It should be noted that the military in the theUSA is not engaged in carrying out action against civilians.
32. #22 Cheese Eater -
Mr. Knowitall ,   Frostbite Falls, MN   (08.08.07)
Tell that to the Families of those in the National Guard who have died in Iraq. The National Guard is very much part of the US military, and unlike the French, its members did not surrender to the Germans in WW2 or you would be eating sauerkraut right now. Those ungrateful French, they think they know everything...well except how to fight and win that is.
33. #29 - Bill Handel
Mr. Knowitall ,   Frostbite Falls, MN   (08.08.07)
The key part of the The Posse Comitatus Act you cited is "within the United States," The illegal Settlers are in an occupied war zone outside of Israel's legal and internatinoally recognized border, and in a Palestinian town which is occupied by the IDF. You don't really think that if you tried to build an illegal settlement in Iraq that they would send the Brooklyn cops in after you do?
34. # 20 MR. "KNOWITALL"
EGW ,   vancouver canada   (08.08.07)
At least one thing you say is TRUE, and I'm being sarcastic, as I'm sure you don't know. Your chosen NAME. Please be informed that there is NO "Occupied West Bank". This area is LEGALLY controlled by Israel, and is, according to INTERNATIONAL LAW, "DISPUTED TERRITORY". See?? I'm sure you understand !! Israel has the BEST "right" to this area, since it was taken in a defensive war. It was originally TURKISH, then LEAGUE of NATIONS, then UN. Israel accepted it's portion but the local and outside Arabs didn't. They made WAR. They LOST. They made WAR again, and again..they LOST, LOST. SO Mr. "knowitall", until "SECURE BOUNDARIES AGREED to by BOTH PARTIES" are finalised (according to UN Resolution 242) Israel has the LEGAL RIGHT to be there. The HEBRON folks have that same right, including the fact that they actually have OWNED the property for millenia. After WW1 the Arabs were 99% serfs, with NO rights and NO ownership. Some Arabs may NOW have GENUINE, LEGAL OWNERSHIP DOCUMENTS, but how and where did they get them?? But I'll believe it ONLY when I see it. And so should YOU.!!
35. Unity=Hypocrisy
Baruch Nili ,   Jerusalem,Israel   (08.08.07)
There can be no unity when there emerges an army within an army, when instead of obeying an order a soldier calls his rabbi and the rabbi calls his MK, and when the religious community within the secular community continually flouts the laws and democracy of the State. And what is worse still is that in pursuing a unity that is simply illusory, the 12 soldiers concerned get 1 month in prison when refusenik pilots get thrown out of the IAF and the IDF. Fishman didn't go far enough. It isn't the Hesder boundaries that need strict definition, its the punishment for insubordination that needs to be redefined so that it fits all insubordinates whether they refuse to fly or wear kippot and refuse a direct order. One month in jail is special treatment yet again. They're laughing at the rest of us and making suckers of us all.
36. You threw them out of their homes #35 and they acted nobly
Daniel ,   Formerly Israel   (08.08.07)
Many of the disengagement refusinks and probably some of the Hebron refusinks too were people "evacuated" (or more apporpriately forcefully transfered) from Gush Katif. Their own army treated them in ways it would never permit their enemies to be treated; it destroyed their dignity and their livelyhood and robbed them of their homes. Soldiers in the past refused to serve over much lesser things, such as not getting their full pay, and soldiers who were disposessed of their homes (or had it done to their friends) have in mutinied and removed the government that mistreated them, and only soldiers in an army as noble, pious, law-abiding, and respectful of duty and authority as the IDF could limit the expression of their outrage to refusing to cause the same harm to other citizens of Israel as was done to them. (note to the Ynet post-checkers; I'm not inciting anyone to mutiny, I'm just talking about how other armies have acted in similar circumstances, so please don't block this post)
37. Yet another lesson in international law this time for #29
Daniel ,   Formerly Israel   (08.08.07)
I'm getting a little tired of explaining the laws of war to every leftwing knowitall on this website (pun intended) so you're going to get the short version: Naval Blocakdes and breaches of treaty (like the ones comitted by Egypt against Israel in the run-up to the 67 war) are acts of war,ergo israel was the victim in the six-day war, ergo all land it conqueredr from Egypt and its allies is legally its own and it can do anything it wants with that land and the people living there (except massacring them, for purely moral reasons). Keep in mind that what I'm referring to is not the international law accepted at the UN for the past thirty years but the international law accepted throughout the world for the past four thousand years.
38. division
tzaki   (08.08.07)
any jew imbued with halacha and jewish history knows there have been pragmatic adjustments for better survival ,. One of the most horrific maladjustments was not to flood palestine from 1920-1924 when the british empire was ascendant and supported a jewish state . The future must be researched thoroughly to protect the jewish people and global wellbeing .
39. #13 have you ever met a settler?
Michael   (08.08.07)
Furthermore, if what you say is true, then I think the Indian Nation has a right to reclaim all their tribal lands. Lead by example. Not only that, but Texas,Arizona and New Mexico should be given back to Mexico. Either you are really ignorant of American History or....
40. Israelis will fight Israelis
John ,   London,UK   (08.08.07)
Insubordination? This means nothing except disobedience of direct military orders. Israel soldiers are refusing to follow order of their commanding officers. This means they are rebelling against their own superiors. If they are doing this now, we can only imgaine what it will be like when Israelis have to pack their bags and leave Israel for good. Because when the likes of President Ahmedinejad and Hezbollah gat their way, then time is coming quite soon when Israelis will have to quit their land very fast. Iran is planning a complete rout of entire Israeli population from this land. Arabs too are sick of Israel. Their leaders might be sitting down with Israel to secure major arms deals from America and to please Washington, but we all know there is only thing that Arabs like to see: End of Israel. They have still not forgiven Israel for expelling millions of their fellow muslims from Israel when Israel was founded after world war two. Israeli soldeirs will fight each other when that days comes. I think best thing for Israel is to do to avoid such a nightmare is to make concessions and make peace with Arabs and Iranian before it is too late. Western experts see disaster for Israel very soon if it does not settle long standing issues this year. I hope Israel will good leaders who are not warmongers.
41. LET IT BE CLEAR:
YID ,   Israel   (08.08.07)
The Jewish army of Israel will not be dictated to by mongrel dogs whose agenda it is to destroy Israel from within by pitting Jew against Jew. It's written in stone.
42. This is the plan:
YS ,   Israel   (08.08.07)
And the one Rice and Co. have been wheeling and dealing on for years now - to create a division within Israel that the IDF no longer can function as ONE cohesive, unified body, the elite torn by its ideology - that the US military will then be brought in to lay down the *law* for the Jews. Prepare yourselves. The worst is yet to come.
43. The MAJORITY of Jews in Israel Support the RIGHT
JS ,   Israel   (08.08.07)
and so why are these buffoons still bleating their BS? Boycott any leftist crapola spin-media! Let them all crash and burn. No mouthpieces for the enemies of Torah. The end is near my friends. Sooner than you think.
44. #3 Hartley, sorry but Abe was not the origional author.....
jan ,   usa   (08.08.07)
It was acutally Jesus Matt: 12-25" Every kingdom divided against is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself cannot stand. Jesus Christ Way before Abraham!!!!
45. Oops, my post 37 was meant for #33
Daniel ,   Formerly Israel   (08.08.07)
46. Answer to Michael
Daniel ,   Formerly Israel   (08.08.07)
Okay, if you want to get Technical Britain should be returned t othe Germans and Ireland to the Celts. The entire Arab world except for Saudi Arabia needs to be returned to its original owners (Syria to the Druzes, Egypt to the ancient Egyptians (if they still exist. North Africa to the Africans, And Iraq to the Mongols, Indonesia to the aborigenal tribes or if they can't be found then to the Dutch, who are next in line. Everything from iraq to Pakistan should go to the Mongols, since I doubt we can find those who owned those lands before them (the Mongols tended to irradicated or assimilate by interbreeding the peoles they conquered. More than half of Russia should be divided among the Chukchas, Ninets, and other native tribes, and I can go on. See the way territory passes from one people to another isn't always fair; territory is the currency of international politics and has been since time began, and it changes hands all the time. The way I see it, every people deserve a home to call their own in the land where they originated, but it isn't all that simple. Whenever land changes hands lives and livelyhoods are at stake. You need to take into account past and current events and conditions on the ground and the way people behave. If you start arbitrarily returning land to its original owners you'll eventulaly und up sending three quarters of the world's population to Mesopotamia and North Africa, and that's if everyone cooperates, and if they don't you'll end up with a massive, possibly nuclear world war. Remember, the road te hell is paved with good intentions.
47. #46 so you are saying that when the Jews were expelled
Michael   (08.09.07)
from all European countries. Well too bad. Now ,that we are in our country we have to be throw ourselves out because claiming our rightful place is a simple person's view.It's morally correct and logical. why can all the nations of the world occupy land as a nation,but the Jew? I rather my view be called simple then your view which is illogical, and lacks basis. Furthermore, should the army should be a mindless army? Do you know what "Catherine the Great" used her army for? One time, she had to cross the river but their was no bridge.. She ordered her General to kill her own soldiers and dump the corpses into the river . They killed until there were enough corpses in the river that Catherine was able to cross the river. with out getting her feet wet. if you were in the Russian army at the time would you let yourself be the Bridge? or follow the orders?
48. Yeshiva Solders
Bruria Bodek ,   USA   (08.10.07)
Shame, to hold one's own interest before the safeti of our country. Where is the deddication to keep Israel alive for all. Their action is the reason to distrust them and deny any easing of serving time. Teddy Kollak was rigt to dislike the ones that spoil it for the others.
49. If ony Israel Followed the Halacha
Tzvi ,   NY USA   (08.10.07)
If ony Israel Followed the Halacha their wouldnt be all of these problems. The root of the problem is a lack of faith and knowledge of G-d. Israel make Tishuva, make Tishuva before more tragedy hits you.
50. 1/3 of Israelies disagree with you.
Jameel @ The Muqata ,   The Muqata   (08.12.07)
If you would get off your high horse for a second, you would realize a few things: 1. The ONE jailed duchifat solider who refused orders was secular, and not a hesder student. 2. According to a Haaretz poll on Thursday, over 1/3rd of the country support the IDF soldiers refusing orders of this nature. 3. When you say, "Two years have elapsed and nothing has been done. Now people are wondering: How did it transpire that this rotten fruit, exposed during the disengagement from Gaza, is emitting such a stench threatening to spread throughout the camp?" We agree with you! How can the IDF still wish to implement eviction orders to Jews, instead of concentrating on fighting terror and training to win wars! Last summer was an excellent example of how the Disengagement stunk up the army. Instead of bashing yeshiva students, perhaps you should bash the politicians who are ruining the army by forcing it to do things it shouldn't. If you want to evict Jews, use those who volunteered to do so: The Israeli Police. Forcing soldiers in the IDF to do the political dirty work of Ehud Barak threatens the IDF far more than any rabbi. Barak is causing the disunity in the IDF...and your op-ed piece is more of the same. Jameel @ The Muqata muqata.blogspot.com
Previous talkbacks
Back to article