Jewish Scene
Kaddish read at Lustiger's funeral
Reuters
Published: 10.08.07, 14:32
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31. Rivka the synoptic gospels were...
Israela ,   Israel   (08.12.07)
partially written in Aramaic but Eusebius and other early church leaders translated them into Greek. So parts of the books of Matthew, Mark, and Luke (the synoptic gospels) were written in aramaic then very early translated to Greek so that they could be used to convert the Pagans. The book of John and the works of Saul of Tarsus (known as Paul writer of the various Epistles) were all in Greek. It wasn't till much later that the Western (Latin) Church with its seat in Rome translated them into Latin. Do us all a favor remember that whenever the Pagan soul in the Christian rebels, that soul blames the Jews! and why does that soul blame the Jews? Because the only real and true chosen people are the Jews. The messiah, may he not tarry, is from the House of David and he hasn't been here yet. We Jews are waiting for him and only him!
32. we don't need bible code digests we have it all in the
original language! ,   HEBREW!!!!!   (08.12.07)
33. #28, you are incorrect
JewishDragonfly ,   Torrance, CA, USA   (08.12.07)
Please see: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09154a.htm regarding Publius Lentulus. Regarding the Aramaic original of the New [sic] Testament, it is worth noting that nobody has a copy of it. It's existence is only theoretical. Any copy of the NT in Aramaic is a translation of the Greek and is thus, at best, a reconstruction. No one can reconstruct the exact wording and spelling, however, so if codes are found in it, this would be irrelevant to it's authenticity, and would argue against the codes being a proof to anything, much as when a researcher found better hits using a Hebrew translation of Tolstoy than then the actual Chumash. (Side note: This may argue about the codes proving anything, but doesn't argue against the divine authorship of the Torah, but merely argues that the codes themselves don't make the argument.)
34. the Messiah
jennie ,   Israel   (08.12.07)
Patriot, talkback #24- the following link will explain why we do not recognize Jesus as our savior. I suggest not trying to convince others of your own beliefs. It is annoying, potentially insulting, and displays ignorance, intolerance and a small mind. We are very happy with our own set of beliefs and do not need anyone to come and teach us otherwise, ty
35. #28 If Jesus was the Messiag what did he accomplish ?
rh ,   Modiin Israel   (08.12.07)
The world is in a horrible state, death and war and hate. When the messah comes it it supposed to be all peacfull and hunky dory after. Christians have killed millions in the interim trying to bring others into their way of thinking. Even if the Christians were correct and Jesus was the messiah, I would be too ashamed to be part of them.
36. Sally , when i'm wrong i admit it always
charles ,   petach tikva   (08.12.07)
when not , i have'nt to admit anything
37. oops
jennie ,   Israel   (08.12.07)
http://www.aish.com/rabbi/ATR_browse.asp?l=All&offset=229 this is the link for Patriot, talkback #24
38. #30
debbie ,   NOLA   (08.12.07)
I agree with you. I find it so revolting but i guess others do not.It is like a stab in the back to all those who sacrificed their lives in the name of their faith. It seems strange that after thousands of yrs people call JC the Messiah when nothing has been accomplished. died for our sins? Why do you need anyone to die for your sins? and look at the world today? This is peoples' idea of a Messiah that came? and this dope, bought it all hook line and ......!yeah something to be proud of...NOT.
39. Reuven Brauner
charles ,   petach tikva   (08.12.07)
Aaron Lustiger saw another world , prefered it to an unknown one for him . He did not reject Judaism , he chose another way . Not that i'm defending him , he made a choice many other's in the same conditions did'nt make . Regarding saying Kaddish . By Halacha he was still a Jew , so why not ? For me , contrary to Halacha , he was'nt a Jew anymore , but he wanted Kaddish to be said . This will had to be respected , how absurd it seems . Regarding those who made it . They did'nt all marry non Jewish [ not Shiksas or skaygetsim , it's so pejorative ] spouses . You are right , most of them don't respect Shabbat , eat non kosher food . So what ? can't they be GOOD Jews when non respecting those laws ? Are all the "law respecting" Jews , good Jews ? No of course . Now we can be proud of every person who was born Jewish and made a great contribution to Humanity . Not many , if any , religious Jews figure on this list .
40. #33. The Peshita Aramaic text of the Bible is available and
Rivka   (08.12.07)
has been studied by the ELS code scholars are www.biblecodedigest.com in depth. They have found it to be of divine origin, as is the Torah. Sounds like you have been brainwashed by the people who want you to think the Alexandrian text is more valid than the earlier Textus Receptus. The Textus Receptus and the Peshita Aramaic text both teach the deity of Yeshua and that salvation is by faith and grace, not by works. Does the deity of Yeshua mean he is God the Father? No. The son of an elephant is an elephant, but not the same elephant. People should worship God the Father, but He does not listen to people since the fall of Adam, except through his son who existed before he was born of Mary. What has Yeshua the servant Messiah done? He grafted onto the tree of faith a Gentile branch so that the Gentiles would not all be separated from God's favor after death. Gentiles donot appreciate the tree has Jewish roots. The Jews do not appreciate the Gentile branch. They fight and war like children in a family. Do you think that pleases God? I think it breaks his heart. Christians are so unlike what God intended them to be that Mohandas Ghandhi of India said he could not become a Christian because he never met one who was like Jesus Christ. Is that surprising? Solomon said only one in a thousand is worthy of the name MAN. Perhaps less than that are worthy of the name Jew or Christian. It is a sad world the Messiah will deliver us from when he comes in glory as the Lion of Judah and take control of the world in glory.
41. Dear Charles,
Reuven Brauner ,   Raanana, Israel   (08.12.07)
To be a good Jew is to be BOTH good to your fellow man AND towards the Almighty. One without the other is NOT what the Torah wants. A good Jew must be observant in all G-d's commandments and follow His Will everywhere and not selectively. By the way, since you don't like my German-sounding name, Charles, I was thinking of Hebracizing it. Since Brauner means "brown" in English or Chum in Hebrew, how about Chumani?
42. Archbishop Lustiger and readers reaction
Dennis ,   Marlton, NJ   (08.12.07)
Uriel: well spoken. Im sometimes aghast at the most vicioust, right wing pronouncements coming from my fellow diasporans. It seems that those who sit far away from the action are the most vocal monday-morning quarterbacks. Of course, though.. everyone has their right to an opinion, but still....
43. To Reuven Brauner CHUMANI
charles ,   petach tikva   (08.12.07)
Why not , it's much nicer , and has no bad memories in it . I was also thinking to Hebraize my name after making Alyah , but this would bring some administrative problems and difficulties with my ex country . Now , Your view is that of a religious one . As i'm a secular atheist , the tora is a nicely written history book for me . The laws are added to make people behave correctly , I don't need tora laws , nor police , to do it . So i can be a Good Jew , without having to obey religious laws . I can act as i want , without harming other people of course . As i said it already , My freedom to act ends where other's freedom begins . That's how i'm thinking and behaving , without any need for religious laws .
44. Rivka #40
Keren ,   Israel-SP   (08.13.07)
Christians try to rob what is not given to them.They want by force what do not belong to them. I don't know what is "ELS code",but I do know Christianity was invented out of robbery, as was Muslimism. As they , Gentiles,found themselves with nothing,in the darkness,they started their robbery,because all men need to believe in something,and Paganism was not responding to this need anymore,since G'od was reveled,but to Jews. They knew now there is a Creator and ,maybe, the only achievment of Christianity was to spread this idea -by force-,making them wish for G'odt.But they are still pagans,yet. Our,Jews, fault must had(have) been not to teach them,Gentiles,as we should,by being the Light we should,because,actually, we ourselves resist to obey and accomplish what we are supposed to. That's why many Jews hate Religious people:they don't want to obey G'od and His desires! We have to fix it,by taking possession our selves on what is ours. Our Destiny as Jews,is to accomplish and accept our own Duty,then we will be able to lead as we have to, and as others actually expect us to. We have in our Scriptures,specific Commandments to all peoples,not only to Jews. The Light is to everyone,but everyone in its own place,with its own duty. And christianity should be humble to admit they are a lie and stop desiring to take the place that do not belong to them,same as Muslims,because that's impossible!
45. #24 - Be Patient
David ,   Israel   (08.13.07)
Psalms: "A thousand years is like yesterday in my sight." Its been two and a half days for God - I'm sure he'll get to it by the end of the week. After all, who are you to set his schedule for him?
46. #43 - False Assumption
Gavriel ,   Israel   (08.13.07)
Our traditions clearly define a "good Jew" as one who keeps the Torah - i.e., the religious principles and ritual laws. As such, while you may certainly be good, and you may certainly be a Jew, you are not by any stretch of the imagination a "Good Jew."
47. #33 you're inaccurate again
JewishDragonfly ,   Torrance, CA, USA   (08.13.07)
Peshita Aramaic version of the New [sic] Testament is NOT the original. It's a translation, as I said before. It hasn't been proven to be divine at all. While I agree that gentiles can be followers of G-d, it is by either converting to Judaism or following the rules the Torah specifies for non-Jews. It isn't done by worshiping human beings as G-d. Regarding your statement that the man you say is G-d, "grafted ... a gentile branch": This isn't what the messiah is to do. Also, he didn't; instead, the religion he founded, while perhaps closer to the Torah than Greco-Roman paganism, it is still steeped in idolatry, as one of it's primary beliefs is that G-d had a physical body. "Brainwashed" by the way, is a loaded word. It's a way of dismissing an opponents argument without actually having to have any counterpoints. It is generally used by people who are afraid to admit that someone might have been educated to know an idea contrary to their ideology.
48. Ok , Gavriel
charles ,   petach tikva   (08.13.07)
You are [ maybe] a good Jew in the religious meaning of it . You call my assumption false , it's your right . I have'nt to agree with the generally , in the religious community , accepted way to define someone as being a good Jew . The religious , even i can appreciate some or many of them , are not the only who can define someone as being a Good Jew .
49. Whan a two bit hazer fressr paygers
Al   (08.13.07)
he expects that the Jews whom he abandoned should cow tow to his last wishes. Well, here a heads up for all you hazer fressers, mosrim and erev ravs. You have abandoned us while you were alive so please take your sorry ass carcass to the goyim whom you so richly embraced in your life.
50. Now he is physically dead.
Mloishe ,   Golutsk   (08.13.07)
This man has been spiritually dead since he was 14. Now that he is physically dead without making a tchuva at the end of his live his soul will be dead for eternity.
51. Why do you hate !!!!???????
Baruh Roytman ,   Los Angels   (08.13.07)
52. #51
debbie ,   NOLA   (08.14.07)
If anyone hates it must be his poor poor mother turning in her grave. Are you a moron or so dense that you cannot appreciate why Jews and survivors in particular find this man so offensive?Saying the Kaddish- oh yeah lets pour some more acid on the wound. I cannot help but look at the insensitivity and total disregard of how this has effected those of us who see this as the ultimate slap in the face. Who cares how everyone tries to rationalize and b.s. their way thru with rediculous "tolerance"and such crap. you know full well what he did and the last indignant act to have a kaddish recited near a CROSS with the rest of the hatemongers is his last (not rite)but act of conempt against the Jewish people.he spit on ya'all and you are too blind to realize it.
53. Debbie , don't judge this man
charles ,   petach tikva   (08.14.07)
How absurd it can be , but he wanted that kaddish be said , and this will had to be observed . Are you believing in a god ? well then don't judge this man . You are not god , he alone will do it . Be more tolerant toward others , you also will be more tolerated . Don't be so hatefull , you will also be hated . Don't think that i agree with his conversion , but who am i , or are you to judge him ?
54. And Lustiger was not a Jew.
Keren ,   Israel-SP   (08.14.07)
I don't know how it can happen an ,apparentely ,born Jew not to be a Jew,but certainly happened in his case. He was not able to grasp the concept of G'od,thus he needed to tranform G'od in a person like him,in order to grasp some meaning,what is obviously a mistake and a fraud,exactly what christians do by "humanizing" G'od through their jesus . He confessed he embrassed that "religion" "by faith",so never Kadish should be spoken to him.He was a not Jew.
55. I just wanted to say that Christians do NOT ....
jack bauer ,   AU   (08.14.07)
go around killing people! Especially not jews! Anyone that told you otherwise, is misinformed....The law states that murder is forbidden. Also it says bless Israel and be blessed. Curse Israel and be cursed! many people claim to be what they are not. You can tell by their actions what they are..... draw your own conclusions
56. Keren , by Halacha he was !
charles ,   petach tikva   (08.14.07)
57. #6
Paul ,   London England   (08.15.07)
"how can you stay catholic after learning that your jewish mother died at Auschwitz? Nonsensical.Illogical. " What staggering pomposity! He simplymade a personal choice to practise Christianity - the majority religion of those British (and later, US and Russian troops)who fought against and destroyed Nazi Germany - without which bravery and sacrifice, Judaism would not have been saved.
58. Lustiger
Michael ,   Canada   (08.17.07)
Is there anyone out there who is not doped out of sanity with opium of the people? I mean except me and Brauner who had the courage to say so. Mike
59. Charles
Marilyn ,   USA   (08.17.07)
I read one of your previous talkbacks, that's presumably about me. I'm not sure what you are wanting. However If you are disagreeing with my underlying beliefs about separation of government and religion in Christianity, then why don't you argue them from the bible.
60. #58
Michael ,   Canada   (08.17.07)
No Charles, I agree with you. I just mistakenly took your comment to be that of Brauner. My ideas are just like yours. I do good because it is the right thing to do and not as a contract with G'd. Why can't I love humanity without a barter deal with G'd? Reading these comments from the religious shows a lot of hatred and ill will towards others. They have a lot to learn.
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