Jewish Scene
New initiative enables Jews abroad to observe shmita
Ynet
Published: 12.08.07, 13:29
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26 Talkbacks for this article
1. A Mitzwa ?
charles ,   petach tikva   (08.12.07)
A good business . At this price this organisation only looks to make profit ? Is it not a mitzwa FOR FARMERS alone ? Why should foreign NON FARMERS have to observe this Mitzwa ? Anyhow , this shmita year will probably only have one consequence , the rise in price of all our agricultural products . Thank you religion .
2. Shmitta - To Charles #1
Plaintalk ,   Brooklyn, NY   (08.12.07)
Charles - the money that is collected from diaspora Jews is distributed to observant farmers in Israel to help them over the economic hump. Remember, they have no income during Shmitta. Religion is not the problem. There is a beauty in Jews helping other Jews that seems to be lost on you.
3. #1 Charles. Take it up with higher command.
ER ,   Canada   (08.12.07)
Hay Charles, you are blaming the wrong people. Why not go directly to the boss, the one whose orders they are carrying out, and complain to Him? Mind you, I would bear in mind He has a pretty good track record on being right!
4. To #1
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (08.12.07)
Now Charles, be a good Jew and support this blessed land deal. If I buy four of those little plots by proxy, with quitclaim deeds neatly stashed away somewhere, and since I can't even manage to grow frigging tomatoes that end up being nothing more than slingshot ammo where I am, could I, just for the hell of it, pitch a tent on that land now and then and play pioneer? If I have to grow broccoli, beans or who knows what, I am not interested. Also, will the purchaser get a title certificate, so 15 Arabs won't come out of the woodwork one of these days and swear up and down tthat the land has been theirs since Ishmael. Oh, and could qassams and katyushas reach this little piece of heaven? Your speedy reply, before 10 humorless tbr's get on my a-s for who knows what, would be appreciated. :-)
5. M Hartley
charles ,   petach tikva   (08.12.07)
Ra'anana is not faraway from my town , so i'll take care of your small plots . Katyoushas are not falling there [ not yet ] no security problems . Regarding growing tomatoes , there is no hi speed course here , as far as i know , so i can't help you . My knowledge of tomatoes is limited to their taste . Maybe not 15 arabs will come and claim this ground is their's , maybe more . But don't worry , with 10 great attorneys , you will not loose anything . Little piece of heaven? depends of your neighboors . I have some fine , others ...... i have to send some other tb's , have a fine week , and give us some more hilarious stories .
6. ER , give me his Email or phone nr
charles ,   petach tikva   (08.12.07)
7. Plaintalk
charles ,   petach tikva   (08.12.07)
Helping other Jews is not something lost to me [ not yeshivot or bate knesset of course ]. Can't they sell this ground to a non Jew , as we do Pesach with chamets ? OK , the ground will not rest , but laws can be contourned not ? Those farmers have no income ? El Al has also no income one day out of seven . And they are not schnorring !
8. Charles
R ,   Jerusalem   (08.12.07)
"Anyhow , this shmita year will probably only have one consequence , the rise in price of all our agricultural products . Thank you religion" Actually, like every Shmittah year, produce prices DROP. Thank you Charles, for proving how incorrect you can be... once again.
9. R Yeroushalaim
charles ,   petach tikva   (08.12.07)
Well i hope you are right , as i made Alyah only in sept 2001 , i had no experience with a Shmitta year . Normally when production diminues and demand is the same , prices have to raise . This is a MARKET LAW . Can you explain how this price drop occurs ? is there less consumption ? Are imported products cheaper ? Are non religious farmers producing more ? Thank you for a serious explanation , if you have one .
10. #9
R ,   Jerusalem   (08.13.07)
"Can you explain how this price drop occurs ?" Yes. It's quite simple. 1) Arab vegetables, which are purchased in higher quantity are cheaper. 2) The land owned by Jews is hefker meaning people can come and take what they want and how much they want. That knocks off quite a bit of cost. So, again, before attacking your fellow Jews, do some more research please.
11. Charles #7
Plaintalk ,   Brooklyn, NY   (08.13.07)
It is only certain rabbis who follow the ruling of HaRav Kook ob'm, who permitted the sale of land prior to the establishment of the State to a non-Jew for the Shmittah year. Most contemporary authorities frown on this practice because it violates the spirit of the halacha. I sense a sinat chinom against those who might frequent a beit knesset or yeshivah. Contrary to what you might to think, most of the people who frequent these places do earn an honest living, pay their taxes, and act honorably to others. I suppose that you might be turned off by the thousands of men who study Daf HaYomi every day (either very early or in the evenings), and earn a livelihood the rest of the day, simply because the classes are held in a yeshiva or beit knesset. If the shoe fits, shame on you! Regarding El Al, they are now a privately owned company that has made a (sound) business decision not to fly on Shabbat and Chagim. Their cash flow is "interrupted" for 24hours, not 12 months. Your contrived comparision to Shmittah is weak at best. And El Al still shnorrs plenty from the government in indirect ways!
12. Meanwhile shmita is violated
Josh   (08.13.07)
Because the Rabbis made up a loophole that doesn't exist. Nowhere in Torah does it say you can give the land to the Arabs during this year so that the land is not allowed to rest. Once again, Rabbis violating the pashoot intent of Torah. Meanwhile Jews not coming back to the land (choosing goyim over G-d), are pretending they have been farming the land and are going to let it lay fallow for a year. What hypocrisy much like the empty sacrafices of Temple. G-d is watching this foolery
13. Plaintalk
charles ,   petach tikva   (08.13.07)
Would you give money to Shalom achshav [ to take an extreme example ] No of course . I have enough other places to help , even if they are founded and runned by Charidim . But not to yeshivot and Bate knesseth . Now , as i lived for most of my life begalut , i know that there much more religious and charidim are working and studying , then here . Here the Charidim are not working so much . Proof ? the two poorest Jewish cities here are those with a great proportion , if not a majority in the case of Bne Brak , of them . El Al flights are interrupted 1/7 of the week . Shmita year has the same proportion 1 year/ 7 . Most "national" airlines are in one way or another subsidied by their governement .
14. R Yeroushalaim
charles ,   petach tikva   (08.13.07)
There are vegetables who are not growing without being planted every year . For fruit , apples , citrus and so , yes it is possible . Arab peasants can't supply so much more than they do . If you have one dunam who gives , 1000 kg of potatoes [ example ] , you can't have twice this quantity . And i don't think that they , the Arab peasants are stupid . They are also businessmen . When there is a great demand , they will also ask more for their production . But , i'll see next year what the prices will be . Till then , i have to believe you , but will inform myself by family and friends if what you have told is true .
15. #13
R ,   Jerusalem   (08.13.07)
"Proof ? the two poorest Jewish cities here are those with a great proportion , if not a majority in the case of Bne Brak , of them ." And what of Beitar? All Chareidim and doing pretty well for themselves? And what of those communities up north, such as Tzvas? Again, the Chareidim there are doing pretty okay. Unfortunately, most of your knowledge of Chareidim seems to come from the papers and not first hand experience.
16. Government of Israel will give NIS103 million
He who knows ,   USA   (08.13.07)
to the farmers observing Shmitah next year. The amount is 4 times higher than in previous Shmitah year. Just putting it out there. Something to think about.
17. You are wrong mr R , prices rise
charles ,   petach tikva   (08.13.07)
i came now from the market , where i asked a religious dealer about the prices during the Shmitta year . Next year ? nobody knows , in the past the prices have ALWAYS RISEN . There are more Rabbi's involved , and they must be paid . Yes , there are religious people who do it very well , but the POOREST are those with a great part of charidim . I don't say it .Official statitics . So your knowledge is limited to what you want to know . Your first hand experience is valueless against statistics .
18. #17
R ,   Jerusalem   (08.13.07)
"Yes , there are religious people who do it very well , but the POOREST are those with a great part of charidim " You haven't lived amongst the Ethiopians and Russians, have you? Well, I have, and if you want poor and your want lower quality of lifestyle, you want to pick on them far more than you want to pick on the Chareidim. "Your first hand experience is valueless against statistics . " Funny. You never should statistics. Nor do you even have first hand experience in Shmittah, Jewish law, or Jewish living; yet you feel free to open your mouth over and over. My experience, along with many others, is that it has always gone down. If somebody has had different experiences, fine. But where I've shopped over the years, that's been the case.
19. R , you don't know
charles ,   petach tikva   (08.13.07)
My experience in Jewish living . You talk about Ethiopian immigrants and you compare them to long established charidi communities ? You talk about a part of the Russian immigrants , the elderly , yes they are poor , BUT THEY ARE"NT ABLE ANY MORE TO WORK . Contrary to most of the charidim [ i'm also not talking about the elderly ] The young ex Russian do it , some very well . Now regarding prices , i can believe a year long dealer much more than someone who is trying to convince me that he is right .
20. #19
R   (08.13.07)
"My experience in Jewish living . " It's not that hard. You've been consistently wrong throughout your Talkbacks on YNet concerning Jewish law, Jewish belief, the religious community, etc. It's clear that you are not well educated in Judaism, nor do you have many dealings with the religious community, or else some of the things you have said in your Talkbacks would never have been said. One thing is to have legitimate complaints, but some of the things you say simply have no basis in reality. The Russian and Ethiopian immigrants that I see on an everyday basis throughout Jerusalem are younger people, not just old. They can do all the things that the Chareidim can do, yet you seem to only pick on the Chareidim. Its sad that your hatred for those who keep Torah keep you from having an open mind. End of conversation.
21. R
charles ,   petach tikva   (08.13.07)
I decide when conversation is over , not you . There is no more open minded than me . Your " sayings" about my Jewish education are so worhtless as your "knowledge" on market prices . Over and OUT
22. #4
notme ,   where?   (08.13.07)
Yo M. Harley give me a yell and I can help with those tomatoes---wherever you be . luv ya
23. To #9
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (08.14.07)
I really appreciate your offer, but my late hubby and I, in passionate pursuit of delusions of adequacy, attempted for 20+ years to grow tomatoes. Not a square meter of this yard hasn't been tried. Those things were prayed and ohmed over in every religion known to man, and the results never changed. I've gone so far as to go out there and, when nobody was looking, flash the plants trying to embarass them into turning red. No luck. It only shriveled them. Considering the different types of fertilizer we applied, it wouldn't surprise me to see a Geiger counter go off the charts around here or that there are places in this yard where a dead body would disintegrate in 5 minutes without being buried. For all the money we spent, we could have bought enough of the fool things to supply Prego and Hunt with tomatoes into the next century. But, admitting defeat, I gave up on tomatoes and decided to try my luck with figs. So far, the results are not much better, but at least, I don't have to buy and plant new fig trees every year. My ego gets pummeled by the same ones. After blowing $37.50 plus tax on a little fig tree three years ago, I've seen one fig in 2005 and another one last year. One was eaten by a raccoon, the other one by a squirrel. This year, except for leaves the size that would completely cover the attributes of Pamela Anderson, there's nothing, zilch, nada, nix that resembles a fig. Being big on propagating things, three years ago, I actually managed to root a couple of twigs, one of which I gave to a former friend. You guessed it: She has figs this year and I don't, and who needs - no pun intended - overbearing friends like that? If worse comes to worst and things get desperate, I can live on Azaleas forever. Give me anything useless, and in 2 years I'll have a frigging desert blooming. Some people might believe in the old saw that man can't live by bread alone but must have tomatoes, figs or peanut butter, I know without a doubt that, slopping a dollop of mayo over it, man can do just as well with azaleas and fig leaves as additions to that bread. Aside from the fact that I hate peanut butter, just you wait until I get that okra going!!!! Can you say "enough green slime to cover the globe?" If evolution had depended on me and my agricultural skills and curiosity, that tree of knowledge would have stayed safe and sound, we'd still be cavorting naked in Eden and Abraham wouldn't have seen one good reason to ever leave Ur. If my okra plantation doesn't work out, either. I will try my luck with Ramen noodles. From the looks of it, they are multiplying in my cupboard like coathangers in my closets, and I just know that I will not be denied. I learned that from those ag people at Auburn U. Two of their graduates decided to go into business for themselves. They borrowed money, bought 50,000 chicks, planted them head first and watered the hell out of them. Well, the chicks all died. Realizing that they had done something wrong, they mortgaged their houses, bought another 50,000 chicks, planted these butt first, watered and fertilized them and well, those, too, croaked. Being alumni of Auburn, they spelled out their problem in great detail, sent the letter to Auburn's Ag dept. with the request for advice. Three months later, they get an official communication from Auburn University: "Please send a soil sample to determine your ph factor." Maybe hubby's having been an Auburn grad explains that tomato fiasco.
24. To # 23 M Hartley
charles ,   petach tikva   (08.15.07)
As my "expertise" on growing tomatoes is as great as yours , i did'nt even try . Because i like to eat them , i'm going to the market , and look around to find out wich tomatoes will have the great honor to fill my stomach . They have to deserve it . Regarding figs , i have never seen dry figs on a tree , so i think that there is a big secret hold by some great , probably Turkish , dealer who is the only one who knows how to grow them . In my birth country , around the easter feast , they sold chicks . People were buying them for their children , but how they were growing them , also a well hold secret i suppose . So neither for tomatoes , figs nor chicks can i give any advice , sorry my Dear M. [ for what stands M. ? ]
25. I said it before, and I'll say it again:
Yossi ,   Levittown, PA, USA   (08.21.07)
M. Hartley should have a blog on Ynet. She's at least as entertaining and erudite as Yair Lapid. She produces with her words what she fails to produce in the tomato patch and fig forest -- nourishment for the mind.
26. Smittah observant fraud
Alon ,   Bet Shemesh, ISR   (08.26.07)
This ruse is so patently ridiculous that it ought to be scorned, not enjoined, by leading rabbis. Let all those chutznikim get off their duffs, buy a home and live here and they can really observe shmittah. Put you mouth where your money is!
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