Opinion
The next Palestinian crisis
Moshe Elad
Published: 21.08.07, 00:25
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
28 Talkbacks for this article
1. "Right of Return" is a delusional PIPE DREAM
Malcolm   (08.21.07)
2. Jews from Arab Countries Not Returning
Semsem ,   New York, USA   (08.21.07)
The 1 million Jewish refugees who fled the Arab countries are not returning so why should they?
3. Is this dude writing his first article or something??
Mo ,   Nablus   (08.21.07)
"The result: The Gaza Strip decided to adopt a radical religious regime headed by Hamas, while the West Bank seemingly continues to back Mahmoud Abbas" Go and review the election results by constituency. Hamas won HUGE in the West Bank. We don't back Abbas. And what do you mean "the Gaza Strip decided to adopt a radical religious regime"? Who decided to do anything?? And how many times have Hamas spokesmen said "no religious state in Gaza"?
4. Where is the editor?
Robert Tilden ,   Sheridan, Wyoming   (08.21.07)
A long and not very organized article. The bulk of the article serves no purpose. The Gaza-West Bank division has nothing to do with Local/ Tunis division. Is this the first time that the Palestinians have been devided? What about the Palestinians who did not heed to the calls of Radio Damascus and are now Israelis? as apposed to those who did and are now in Lebanon and Jordan? What about the Christians who left for Colombia or Chile etc Vs. the Muslims who went no farther than Gaza? This article is full of holes.
5. They have no such "Right"
Thomas ,   Cleveland, USA   (08.21.07)
Very few Arabs were expelled in 1948. Most left of their own free will or were encouraged to leave by the leaders of invading Arab armies. There are quite a few instances in which the Arab armies actually forced Arabs to leave villages. Most left simply because they couldn't stomach the idea of living with Jews, period, and of course, now that they've lost, they feel they have a right to come back to land they left. Those Arabs who stayed and became Israeli citizens are the luckiest Arabs in the ME if not the world, its amazing how much they kvetch!
6. 3rd generation palestinians
bill ,   phila,.usa   (08.21.07)
I don't think there will be an adult 3rd. generation, I believe Yeshua will return before then. Ez.37,38,39
7. "Right" of Return
Reuven Brauner ,   Raanana, Israel   (08.21.07)
I have never understood this phrase. What gives anyone a "right"? Who defines a "right"? Who has the right to give or define a "right"?
8. #1, You say you came back after 2000 years
(08.21.07)
Wanna teach me what's a delusional dream ?
9. #8 jews as an nation came back to a
(08.21.07)
land that belonged to the nation of Israel. Show me where I can learn of ancient Palestinian institutions or Palestinian scientists in the 1700s or philospohers or Financiers that helped any society in the world that called themselves Palestinians? The return of the Jews can't be equated with the palestinians. The Jews have been a nation for 3300 years. The nation of Palestinians is maybe a hundred years old and I'm giving you the Benefit of the doubt. When Mark Twain, a non-jew, he never mentioned the word Palestinian,why? In Time Magazine (1976) it always wrote about the Arab-Israeli conflict, not the Palestinain-Israeli Conflict, why? The Arab nations have a great Public Relations experience but they do not have the Great promise given to the Jewish People. Manipulation and distortion can only go so far.
10. #9, please refer to Ben Gurion to learn more
(08.21.07)
We can discuss the right name of the Pealestinain Nation, Ben Gurion uses the simple term "Fallahim" while trying to explain the origin of the indigenous people of what's Israel today. He, as well as anthropologists from the 19th century or modern genetic studies, they all said that the so called today Palestinians are descendants of ancient semite canaanite people, and jews. ( just read Ben Gurion, the founder of Issrael). Actually Palestinians have more jewish blood than white blonde russians who believes in judaism or a converted spanial or any other average Ole Hadash. What you say is there was no national conciousness, and it would be true to the extent it's true about most of the modern nations, as the perception of nationality as we know it formulated in the last 100-200 years. Still the people of the land we call Palestine or Eretz Israel have the right to live on it as they did for 2000 years and more. As a Christian, I don't accept a rasist God anymore, moreover, jews had to fight and commited war crimes to take control over the land, it's not acceptable by the God I know. Please make a bit deeper study, you find the ancient traditions of the place are preserved to these days by Palestinian peasants, names of places are same as they were 2000 years ago even if sound a bit different (they were renamed by the Romans but remained in the memory of people and changed back).
11. #10 Right of return
Raphael ,   Netanya   (08.21.07)
is no issue concerning international law: some 40 million Europeans were displaced persons in 1945, so were 20 million Indians and Pakistanis in 1947. Nobody bothers about their right of return. Only Palestinians remain on the list, as a major pawn to destabilize ME, and your genetical baloney is supposed to be an argument to maintain their hereditary refugee status.
12. The next crises? How about this:
David Ramati ,   Israel   (08.21.07)
HAL Lindsey said it best: "One of the most misunderstood issues today is the question of "Who are the Palestinians"? The truth about this matter has been so deliberately obscured that even to raise the question will seem strange to most readers. " In his book, "The Everlasting Hatred, the Roots of Jihad," he traces the history of the people now being called the "Palestinians." "During the span of time that the land was controled by Moslems, the land was reduced to total desolation. Many people who traveled the land in the 19th century remarked on the fact that Palestine was as desolate as the moon and very few people lived there. " "In 1867, Mark Twain remarked about his visit to the Holy Land in his book, "The Innocents Abroad." He lamented, "Stirring scenes occur in the valley [of Jezreel] no more. There is not a solitary village throughout its whole extent – not for 30 miles in either direction. There are two or three small clusters of Bedouin tents, but not a single permanent habitation. One may ride 10 miles hereabouts and not see 10 human beings." "By all eyewitness accounts of that era, Palestine was a total desolation. There were virtually no trees and no people. Because of lack of trees, the weather changed and it rarely ever rained. The irrigation systems of the once fertile valleys were all destroyed, rendering most areas into malaria-ridden swamps. The terraces of the mountainsides were torn down, causing terrible erosion that left only barren rocks. This was the condition of Palestine by the beginning of the 19th century. " "It was at this time that Jews began to flee severe persecutions in Russia and Eastern Europe. In the mid-1800s, some Jews came to Palestine and, with the generous aid of some successful Jews like the Rothschilds, began to buy property from Muslim Ottoman Turks. To everyone's amazement, the Jews were very successful at reclaiming the land. As a result of their success, poor migrant workers from the surrounding Muslim countries began to flood in to work for the Jews. The Jews literally became victims of their own success – almost all of the people calling themselves "Palestinians" today are the descendants of those migrant workers. " Lindsey goes on to write: The current efforts of Jordan and Egypt (and all the rest of the Muslim Middle East nations) to give these same people a state is clearly a ploy to get a foothold inside Israel. It is a strategic accommodation to establish a base from which the final assault against Israel can be made. What they couldn't do militarily is now being facilitated through the United States and the E.U. Muslims will never accept a permanent presence of infidels in what they claim is sacred Islamic soil. Especially Jewish infidels for which the Koran reserves its most vehement condemnations. In their minds, the Koran and Allah will not let them accept Jews in what they view as their third holiest site. The United States had better learn these things, or we will find ourselves guilty of facilitating the destruction of God's people, to whom the Word of God says the land belongs forever. God will not let that happen, but He will certainly judge those who have any part in trying to do it. God warned: "Therefore thus says the Lord God: 'Surely I have spoken in My burning jealousy against the rest of the nations and against all Edom [Arabs], who took MY LAND to themselves as a possession, with whole-hearted joy and spiteful minds, in order to plunder its open country ... But you, O mountains of Israel, you shall shoot forth your branches and yield your fruit to MY PEOPLE ISRAEL, for they are about to come.'" (Ezekiel 36: 5, 8 NKJ)
13. #9: Also read Vladimir Yabotinsky and Moise Dianne
Mukhtar ,   Wien   (08.21.07)
who recognised the palisitinians as indigenous.
14. #11, probably jews are less commited to the land ...
(08.21.07)
...than the Palestinians. It was proven in the "disengagement", I was expecting them fight for their homes, baricades, wounded (forgive me but I even expected deaths)... but they're more committed to the state than the land. It's maybe because the state pays their bills and without the state they worth nothing. Still, the way they gave up the ideology (which in my opinion is fanatic religious and a waste of time), but the way they gave it up all for a hug and a check in their bank account showed how different Jews are from Palestinians. regarding international law... give me a break, a stack of international resolutions is awaiting Israel to implement them, international law is enforced only when superpowers have an interest. Nobody asks the international law if it was OK to expell people from their homes or land.
15. This article is simply wrong
Diane ,   Washington DC   (08.21.07)
Those members of the leadership who have said most explicitly that the return will be not to Israel but to the occupied territories are Mahmoud Abbas and Yasir Abed Rabbo, both of whom are refugees - Abbas from Safad, Abed Rabbo from Yafa. And the idea that nothing connects Palestinians into a single identity because some are rich and some very poor, some are secular some are religious, some are settled and some nomadic, is absurd: you might equally say the same thing about Israel or the U.S. or 100 other places.
16. #14
ken ,   nyc   (08.21.07)
it's not that jews are less commited to the land, it's that life for jews is sacred and above all, unlike moslems who will kill themselves and others just for the the name of allah, now this is a fanatic idoeology. btw, the settlers didn't recieve much love or money from the state (frankly your statement about recieving check sound a little racist) you say that you expected to see deaths. well i think that you WANTED to see deaths, you wanted to see jewish people killing each other.
17. #9-13 All right to some degree
Levy ,   Israel   (08.21.07)
but both sides of the arguement have their respective Achilles heals: people claiming to belong to indigenous groups - Hebrew or otherwise - with no such roots, who stole into Israel on false pretense. They make the most noise and the biggest messes, and ruin it for the rest of us.
18. #9
non ,   of your business   (08.21.07)
Trashy argument. Cannaan was the son of Ham, the father of the African black races. If the palifakers are cannaniites, let them return to Africa.
19. #10; Your main points are, of course Wrong
Mark ,   Georgia, USA   (08.21.07)
There are no modern genetic studies that say anything like " the Palestinians being descendants of the Canaanites." Although Arafat was known to spout that silly notion. In fact nobody knows what happened to the Canaanites who occupied the land before the Jews. Almost all anthropologist dismiss what you said as nonsense. It is true that the Pals are closely related to the Jews. I don't know what you mean by a racist G-d? To the best of my knowledge Jewish people brought the land from willing Arab landowner-effendi- was what they were called. Fellahin - were poor Arabs that worked the land for the absentee landlords. In his memoirs, Transjordan's King Abdullah wrote: It is made quite clear to all, both by the map drawn up by the Simpson Commission and by another compiled by the Peel Commission, that the Arabs are as prodigal in selling their land as they are in useless wailing and weeping 6King Abdallah, My Memoirs Completed, (London, Longman Group, Ltd., 1978), pp. 88-89. As you can see by the quote above nothing was stolen, it was ,purchased or won in aggressive wars started by the Arabs. What war crimes do you refer to? After all with so many lies coming out of that part of the world I would watch what I read. See Here;website http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_B1H-1opys Submitted for your approval...or not Mark from Georgia
20. To # 10
Israeli Arsi   (08.21.07)
You are delusional because Ben-Gurion never said that and the Palis are Arab rejects from egypt, syria, lebanon, and whatever else - there is no such nation! You are a believer of garbage. As for the names of places - let me clue you in - THEY ARE JEWISH NAMES!
21. Fair & practical plan to sort out Hamas & end the occupation
Uzi ,   Haifa   (08.21.07)
Israel should let Hamas to depose Abbas and smash Fatah in Judea and Samaria, or even help Hamas to do so. Then everybody would like to abolish the PA and wipe it off the world map and consciousness. It will also open the way for the Kingdom of Jordan to take charge as the only viable nation state of all the Arabs of Greater Palestine. Having got rid of the PA, Israel and Jordan should agree on the border between them in Judea and Samaria and maybe cede Gaza to Egypt that would sort it out quite smartly. Everybody, Jews and Arabs, should continue to live in peace where they are and nobody should move from their homes or land. Israelis who would thus become residents of the Kingdom of Jordan should be given rights and conditions like the Arabs in Israel.
22. Real Hebrews vs. Arab Migrants
Joshua ,   Atlanta   (08.21.07)
#10, why is it that only the Jews, descendants of the Ancient Israelites, are the only group in the world that still speaks Canaanite? Hebrew is one of the Canaanite languages, which is a NW Semitic dialect group, the other being comprsed of the different dialects of Aramaic. The Biblical record alludes to the fact that those Canaanites who were not exterminated by the Israelites (as per God's command) were eventually absorbed, so the Israelites ethnically fused with their linguistic relatives. The "Palestinians" to a large degree are not descendants of the Ancient NW Semitic peoples but migrant Egyptians, at least in Gaza. Maybe those in Judea and Samaria are descended from Arabized NW Semites, like the rest of the Levantine-Mesopotamian people, so in that case they should discover their true roots, forsake Arabism, learn Hebrew and assimilate.
23. #10, that is simply not true
Danny   (08.22.07)
Most European and Asian countries had a sense of nationhood. Italy and Germany in Europe being one of the last - they WERE in the last 200 years - but countries like Iran have been about since at least 1502, China longer, and the majority of Arabs were "ottomans" for centuries. In terms of self-view, Palestinians on the whole saw themselves as "Syrians" until very, very recently. The "only" place that didn't really have the idea of the nation state was africa - the "only" is in scare quotes because Africa is several times larger than Europe... As for racist, why is wanting a country for Jews "racist" but wanting a country for Palestinians not? Or Iranians? Or Russians? Or Chinese? Jews have a much more distinct, separate identity than Palestinians or Iranians or Chinese or Russians. PS the names of the places from "2000" years ago are Hebrew.
24. #7 Right of Return
English guy ,   London   (08.22.07)
Seems that Israeli law enshrines the Right of Return - so what is the purpose of your vacuous question? The ISraeli government also deems it fit NOT to allow the right of return to non-Jews born in the territory it now governs. Hence "Right of Return" is a rather big issue. You should know - you have "returned" from some foreign country and yet people born in Tabsur, which stood where Raanana now stands, are denied the right which you have enjoyed - i.e. to return to their homes (even though they were mostly terrorized out of their homes on December 21st 1947 and the 2,348 Dunams of Arab-owned land were subsumed into Raanana (שיכון עובדים, קרית גולומב, קרית רמז, קרית שז"ר, קרית בן צבי).
25. #2 you are right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
rachel ,   usa   (08.23.07)
26. to return the right is more accepteble
nahla ,   jerusalem   (08.23.07)
but needs time and power . and it is easier than to accept the right of return by israil not the palastinians
27. #24, whats your point?
Danny   (08.23.07)
Britain doesn't automatically give citizenship to people born on British soil. They even invented a whole new category of citizen with the purpose of denying HK Chinese the "right" to live in Britain. As for people being "terrorised" out of Israel, I think you find in the vast majority of cases they didn't even see an Israeli soldier before they left. Maybe you are getting confused with the Jews of Kfar Darom, East Jerusalem, Gush Etzion, Emek Hayarden who were expelled/massacred in the 1948 war? Wouldn't be the first time you had a "bit of confusion" about history... come to think of it you NEVER have got any facts right.
28. #24 english guy
(08.23.07)
in answer to all your complete ignorance about the right of return, may i suggest the following book. FABRICATING ISRAELI HISTORY. THE NEW HISTORIANS by efraim karsh (second edition). one of your beloved revisionist new historian, who is jewish and israeli, by the way, is BENNY MORRIS. you must adore reading benny morris because he's the revisionist historian who fits into your agenda of israel bashing. he excells at it. however, in dr. karsh's book, benny morris wrote about the content of karsh's truthful history regarding the birth of israel and the right of return issue.....and this is benny morris's comment to dr. karsh... KARSH HAS A POINT. MY TREATMENT OF "TRANSFER" THINKING (right of return) BEFORE 1048 WAS, INDEED, SUPERFICIAL. in doing so and expressing this view, he basically agreed that his reasearch into the validity of the rights of palestinians to return is basically nil.
Back to article