Jewish Scene
‘Converting non-Jews vital for Israel’s future’
Ynet
Published: 20.08.07, 19:52
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1. Its important to do it right, because Judaism has laws
David ,   Boston, USA   (08.20.07)
forget the national and strategic mission. It should be the rabbinates duty to assist those wanting to convert to Judaism as much as possible. If these people want to convert and follow Halacha then every means to be made to make it consistent, accepted, and straight forward to follow halacha. 6,000 (only 2,000 finishing) should be ten times that number. PLease fix. I would guess at least half the 300,000 would, another quarter probably want to move to Germany. The only hurdle should be determining whether or not they really want to convert and willing to follow Halacha. The rest should be STRAIGHT forward and assisted all the way.
2. FORGET JUDAISM--JUST MAKE THEM CITIZENS OF ISRAEL
BILL HANDEL ,   BROOKLYN, USA   (08.20.07)
WHY SHOULD SERIOUS GROWNUPS ENGAGE IN THIS CHARADE? Just make them citizens of Israel, and let them marry in the church (or mosque) of their choice!
3.  can you people believe the shit of this government i?
JL ,   israel   (08.20.07)
4. That way resources limited for Jews
Steve ,   USA   (08.20.07)
B"H Conversion of non-Jews is very important to a State that wants to limit Jewish influx. That way alyiah rates are high, but Jewish values are reduced, allowing for more riot police to fight the Jews living there.
5. What do they want!!
Marya ,   sacramento,USA   (08.20.07)
The government and its water carriers (the media) have been attempting to destroy everything truly Jewish in Israel. At every turn they disparage the religious and now they want to make converting faster because a country full of fake Jews is better than having truly religious/observant population?? Can anyone understand this nonesense?
6. conversions...!
Gazan ,   Gaza, Palestine   (08.20.07)
the middle ages, this is where these guys are living
7. Gazan from Gaza
Manni ,   Leeds UK   (08.20.07)
You are the ones that live in the dark ages because if you had any sense you would realise that if you stopped calling for the death of all Jews in the MIddle East and the rest of the World then we could start talking. but then I guess your living in Gaza like I'm living in Riyad.
8. Immigration Amnesty!
Joseph ,   USA   (08.20.07)
A Huge mistake once you convert then you will get another batch of 3 rd world immigrants. The easiest first world country to immigrate is Israel. Be very careful or you are goint to get people from Sudan Mexico, Colombia, China Etc. MARK MY WORDS. This is simply an immigration amnesty
9. The major obstacle with conversion and israeli citizenship..
Joe ,   Los Angeles, CA   (08.20.07)
The real obstacle between conversion and participation in Israeli religious life as a Jew is not the conversion process, nor is it the Israeli government- the real obstacle is the Orthodox establishment which has a stranglehold on Jewish religious life in Israel. The fact of the matter is that being an observant Jew has many interpretations and the Orthodox interpretation of that term is just one of those interpretations. What Israel truly needs is a governmental body representative of all major branches of Judaism (Reform, Conservative/Masorti, Reconstructionist, Orthodox, and Ultra-Orthodox) that renders decisions regarding religious matters as they relate to the State of Israel- Conversion, Status of the Temple Mount, Marriage, etc.
10. conversion of non jews
Mordechai ha Yehudi   (08.20.07)
no matter how much they convert the convert has no right to the land . This is the goal to water down Jews enough that the birthright is destroyed.
11. to Jacob Edery
Ezra haGuer   (08.20.07)
Rather than trying to convert people not interested in Judaism you should try to help real converts to immigrate to Israel. I remind you of a regulation of the Interior Ministry created by some Shinuy minister : - forbidding converts to immigrate to Israel prior to one year after the giur ; - asking them to provide two rabbinical attestations of Judaism ; - asking them to provide a program of the program of conversion they followed. This program has to be certified by the converting rabbis who sometimes passed away years ago... It is still easier for a russian goy with a jewish grand-father to immigrate to Israel than for a halakhic Jew. I advise you, Jacob, to first make your job before trying to take the place of the rabbis. Good Luck !
12. #2 Far away on the other side of the ocean
Israel   (08.20.07)
We are not talking about mosque-dwellers, for G_d sake. You need to come here and see the damage many of the Jew-hating, Israel-hating Law of Return sheisters from the former USSR have done. Being Israeli is a heritage and a privilege, not to be sold to the devil for statistical bodies.
13. the conversion process
observer   (08.20.07)
whether a rabbi, court, or witness are involoved, how can a heavenly religion only acquired through human middlemen. The converted person is not considered equivalent to born jewish, even if he or she becomes married to a born jewish. At most the converted person is considered a Toral observant. My advice to get the proper conversion process is to send the piece back to the factory (mother & grand grand mother) in order to be reassembled.
14. #10 & #13 - You two have a lot to learn...
Rav Hillel ,   Jerusalem   (08.21.07)
"Be of the disciples of Aaron: a lover of peace, a pursuer of peace, one who loves people and draws them close to Torah." (Avot 1:12)
15. To cut a long story short...
enzo ,   london,uk   (08.21.07)
I would be very very careful!!! There are far too many implications in the conversion process which must not be underestimated...! The idea is good "per se", but it's difficult to implement...!
16. #10 Taglit-birthright would complete what's missing
(08.21.07)
17. #6 Unfair!, middle age people were comparatively enlighted
(08.21.07)
18. the extremist and intolerant orthodox again
dfarcas@gmail.com ,   Santiago Chile   (08.21.07)
The major obstacle with conversion is the extremist and intolerant orthodox. The real tragedy and dificult real problem is the Orthodox establishment which has been the unique and WRONG recognized Jewish religious life in Israel. there are different interpretations and the Orthodox interpretation of that term is just one of those interpretations. What Israel urgent require and urgent is a governmental body representative of all major branches of Judaism (Reform, Conservative/Masorti, Reconstructionist, Orthodox, and Ultra-Orthodox) that cetainly has the obligation to allow all of the conversions in the State of Israel- Alejandro santiago
19. RE #18: Every time Othodox stand up for Jewish presence
Steve ,   USA   (08.21.07)
B"H RE #18: Every time Othodox stand up for Jewish presence... someone has to bash it. The Orthodox stand for Jewish presence in Israel. Why bash it like that? This everything equivalent hogwash does not wash with me. There are different interpretations, but the one unifying theme that keeps the nation moving is the vision at Mount Sinai. G-d commanded the Kohanim to lead at the head, and they continue to do so as a single body of authority and not as multiple divisions.
20. #9
avi ,   nyc   (08.21.07)
Lets not play games. All observant Jews are orthodox. Others such as reform ,messianic, reconstructionis, gay and conservative, are twice a year social halls with clergy less educated than high scholl yeshiva students.
21. What Good Is It To....
Reuven Brauner ,   Raanana, Israel   (08.21.07)
What good is it to convert non-Jews to Judaism if they are not committed to observing Torah and performing Mitzvohs? The minimum criteria for conversion must be belief in one G-d and an acceptance of the "yoke of Heaven" and the "yoke of Mitzvohs" such as full Sabbath observance, Kashrus, Taharas Hamishpocho, etc. I am highly suspect of the motives of those who have liberal interpretations of these fundamental ideas, as those people who themselves are not fully observant and committed, and those who have a decidedly very anti-religious, anti-Torah agenda. Not living on a Kibbutz, speaking Hebrew, serving in the Israeli army, paying taxes, being married to a Jew or eating felafel makes one Jewish. I reject phony conversions.
22. #2 ignorant oaf
izzy d   (08.21.07)
just make them citizens and let them marry in church or mosque of their choice!!! Dear blathering Idiot, I was quite taken with your intelligent and well spoken opinion regarding the necessary reform Israels immigration policy must undergo in order to stay relevant. Unfortunately I decided to apply such concepts as: logic, reason, and commonsense to your theory of adjustment and the results are intimidating to say the least. however that is neither here nor there (here being Israel there being Brooklyn) once one realizes that no one gives the slightest attention to your immature drivel.
23. Stupidity
Avrohom Shultz ,   Chicago   (08.21.07)
If there were a shortage of pilots would we set the bar lower to qualify? This is sheer nonsense.
24. #20- Avi...
Joe ,   Los Angeles, CA   (08.21.07)
If you're going to talk about the intellectual superiority of the Orthodox, it would benefit you greatly if you would learn to spell the word school!! As a Conservative Jew, I keep a kosher home and belly, am shomer shabbat and daven 4 times a day, which is more than I can say for most Orthodox Jews I have met. Also, when it comes to education, the clergy at my shul consists of doctors, lawyers and other professionals with advanced degrees. Which leads me to mention that the boys in my ex-girlfriend's community (the Orthodox Syrian community in Brooklyn) more often than not went straight to work after high school and don't even have Bachelor's degrees!! Avi, I've proven you wrong on every point! It's no wonder that the only reason Orthodoxy is growing is because of the high birth rate among Orthodox communities, NOT because Jews are becoming more observant! Orthodoxy is inherently divisive and drives intelligent people away from Torah.
25. For you were gereem in mtzraim
Josh   (08.21.07)
The whole conversion process is het. Do you think Moses dipped each in a mikva and taught them geamatra, incantaions of 15 steps, repetitive prayers. Do you think while they were searchin for water in the dessert they were thinking, sure could use a mikvah. Do you think there was a bet din? Do you think that he taught the Hebrews never to criticize themselves for fear the enemy would overtake them. Did he supply kippahs for all present and instruct them to not move more than three feet forward till they were all ready to leave Egypt. Did they dress as Christian knoblemen in black hats? Oh yeah Christianity comes afterwards as fullfillment of the curses as Jesus said he came to burn up the chaf. It should take no more and no less than a love for G-d and a willingness to listen and do the words of Moses delivers. They must know enough about Torah to pass the test of Devareem 13. Sadly most Jew dont. They worry about eating pork but make others work for them on Shabbat at the malls and gas stations. Proof they only care about themselves and not what G-d wants. These are the ones who will make outcasts of converts. Dont forget your orgins and how easy it was for our ancestors to leave their slave drivers and head out for the good land under the mighty hand of G-d. In my opinion, the orthodoxy has inctentionally brought Israel low for there own gain. Torah is not being leaned in the Yeshivas and the most dati can barely recall a story from Torah, their to busy learning how unchallengable the "Sages" are and what gods the great Rebbis are. I say its brainwashing. Dont get me wrong, they are my people and our solus are bound, but they are aking a mistake. No man is great and no addition to torah is correct. It is all smoke in mirrors deluding and misguiding Jewish families - reducing their true power under G-d as they are made to do rituals that could only be described as an insult and disobedience to the straight reading of Torah. If Moses didn't say it it doenst exist. If it is political cahnegs, it is polution of Torah. Moses' words were enough for the hebrews to convert, and they are enough for modern man too.
26. Inbreeding makes for dumb people
Robert Tilden   (08.21.07)
In a time when Jews were a minority, persicuted etc it made sense to make conversion a rare and difficult thing. But when you are the majority, the more dominant force as is the case in Israel- it makes no sense. According to tradition Ruth was converted, there was no test, no rabbi. Her decendant, who according to one of you had no birthright, King David conquered naighboring people and not only did he convert them but he didnt even give them much of a choice in the matter. At the time of the Great Rebelion Jews comrised a segnificant percentage of the whole Roman Empire, some statistions put it at 10% and that does not include Jews who lived outside of the empire in the Arabian Peninsula or the Parthian Empire (Persia). It's a simple mathematical fact that each person has 2 to the power of X (number generations) of ancestors. 2000 years is about 100 generations so that each person who is not Chinese or native american has many many ancestors, statisticly who were Jews. Consider the implications of NOT converting these people who are in Israel and not Arab. Do you think they will not fall in love with Jews? Do you think Jews will not fall in love with them? Who do you think will be hurt from such petty bean counting? Do you suppose the majority of Jews in Israel, who are not observant would apreaciate genealogical kosher lists? Already there are rifts between American Jews and the Orthodox vice held in Israel. The Orthodox establishment will surly overplay its hand
27. one simple question
(08.21.07)
why has not israel tried to convert arabs IN israel?
28. Josh#25-You are an example of easy conversions-a danger!
Keren ,   Israel-SP   (08.21.07)
"Torah is not being leaned in the Yeshivas and the most dati can barely recall a story from Torah, their to busy learning how unchallengable the "Sages" are and what gods the great Rebbis are" How can you say such a thing?! This is slander(LASHON HARA!)!You are slandering other Jews! And your enter in our midst is not out of love for G'od and for the Jewish People-as is required-,but an attempt to change us. You carry with you the typical christian mentality of converting us. Judaism has specific laws to Gentiles,which should be aplyed in the cases where it is not possible to convert. By aplying these laws to those who wish to follow the G'od of Israel,(and of all)but are not fit to convert to Judaism,we would start benefiting all peoples and spreading Judaism as it should be spreaded and not by converting anyone who wishes so. Every people in its right place and with its own duty,that's what is required! Let's stop with mistakes! Rabbis should start thinking about this. These easy conversions are a "crime"against ourselves.
29. conversions
spinoza   (08.21.07)
create a judaeo-christo-islamico -buddhist humanism ar least as a trial for one hundred years . Palestinian people who are capable of peace could return . But security must be by the iron wall .
30. Forget Medieval Judaism!
Nadav ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (08.21.07)
Of all the suggestions presented, I didn't see any real solutions to allowing Jews to convert to Reform or Conservative Judaism, to which the overwhelming majority of World Jewry belong. As a Russian-speaking Jew, I can't imagine why or how any Russian would think about becoming Ortho?!!
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