It would have been completely different. Israel under Pharaoh Olmert and his evil regime have been disgracing Israel and the Jews internationally. These US Jews love Israel WHEN IT MAKES THEM FEEL PROUD. Israel now has the image of being cowardly, stupid, corrupt and self-destructive.... all because of the scum like Olmert, Tamir, Livni, Peretz, Peres, Ramon, etc. that the Israelis have not thrown out of office. Bring back a strong, proud, unapologetic Israel, and you will bring back the full love and support of world Jewry.

It is a well know principle that G-D interacts MIDA KENEGED MIDA. As a person acts towards his fellow man, so to speak, G-D acts towards him. If the Jews in the Galut act with such indifference or, even worse, with hostility towards the dangers faced by Jews in Israel, how do they expect G-D to treat them when they will be endangered? These diaspora Jews who say they do not care if Israel is destroyed should not be rescued by Israel if there are ever attacks on Jews in the USA or elsewhere.

I go frequently between Israel and America. The problem that American Jews are facing with Israel is not that it is "cowardly, stupid, corrupt and self-destructive.... all because of the scum like Olmert, Tamir, Livni, Peretz, Peres, Ramon, etc." You are 100% right - if someone had asked this after the Six Day War, they would have found that Jews all over the world had a great swelling of national pride. Instead, we see situations like in Lebanon where we bombed HUNDREDS of innocent people (don't you start denying it now) and achieved NOTHING. Compare that to the Six Day War, and how can you be surprised Americans dont feel comfortable with Israel? Don't get me wrong, I think Israel should go to war when its security is threatened, but lets not kid ourselves... 1) The war in Lebanon was NOT necessary. 2) Even if the security experts deemed that it WAS necessary, targetting of civilians in order to make ourselves look tough was NOT necessary, and it ruined our image not only in the eyes of the international community, but also in the eyes of international Jewry. Olmert and co went on a war for no reason, completely unprepared, and achieved nothing - and that is why Jews are finding it difficult to identify with it - particularly liberal American Jews who are raised to respect human rights.

The concept of a state that is based on religion is ridiculous.

I tend to agree - to a large extent, even among Israeli Jews, the antics of our politicians is hardly something that inspires pride. But I have to add that the antics of our religious leaders (primarily Shas & the Chief Rabbinate) is nothing to be proud of either. There is a lot of truth in the adage "everyone likes a winner" but since Oslo, we've become a bunch of losers.

#3 Aharon writes "and that is why Jews are finding it difficult to identify with Israel - particularly liberal American Jews who are raised to respect human rights". So these liberal humanistic American Jews are very concerned with human rights but are indifferent to the possibility of 5 million Jews, including over a million children, being murdered, as will happen if Israel is destroyed. It seems leftists believe Israelis do not count when it comes to human rights. The leftist 'progressive' diaspora Jews are so concerned with human rights that they care nothing about five million Jews dying. This is so typical of the hypocrisy of the left today. The very reason why the Left evokes such hostolity among decent people.

There is no connection between Israel's leaders (of all religious (Jewish) persuations and US (youngr people's connection with Israel. Our youth haven't the foggiest idea of how (we) are viewed by others. We are NOT just a religion (10 commandments are heard), or bagel eating people, we are in fact a people, with blood lines. Note the expression half-Jew used often. Either one is, or one isn't. But the Jew is still there. A Catholic is a Catholic, a Korean is a Korean. Someone 1% black is BLACK. Tiger Wood, and Condi and Powell are black, Americans. Whether Satmar or unaffilicated, married to a non-Jew, or the offspring of a mixed marriage (Jewish mother), the person is Jewish. What these people believe is irrelevant. Also, govts come and go in Israel. If Israel was more defensive, acted more aggressively, and was less apologetic and politcally correct, it doesn't make any difference. Some people thought Begin, Shamir, Bibi, Barak, were nitwits. So what! The 67 war was an inspiration, and Israel did have more support then. But, sometimes a winner is considered a loser. We Jews must increase our, (if anything) support for Israel's flourishment and survival., not decrease. However we can disagree on core issues: the PALs quagmire, who is a Jew, the Orthodox control of civill affairs, relations with the world (US). 6m dead Jews in the Holocaust are testamony of a world w/o a Jewish state for refuge. We need Israel now more than it needs us. (US Jewry). One political incident can result in these so-called assimilated Jews wishing they were more supportive of Israel. (Witness Jewish history throughout the centuries in Europe, Spain Palestine and Turkey). Olmert, Livni have nothing to do with anything, I'm afraid. We can not and should not depend solely on the Orthodox for our survival. that is a bigo mistake.

Do you know how many explicitly Muslim countries there are? I think you should go get your Atlas and read...

let's count off all the moslem states..saudi arabia..egypt..iran..yemen..UAE..keep going...was that a joke?

a Jewish state. Italy..not a catholic state? You really are blind.. that's pretty pathetic.

I do agree with # 1, Roscio of Italy BUT, he forgets that 6 million jews elected the current " SCUM "; not different from the ' SCUM " elected by the palis. We do nothig to correct our mistake, except blowin hot air. same with the palis. My experience?, without exeption ALL Israelis i come in contact with ask the same question " WHY did you come here, I'll gladly exchange my passport with yours. "

These are the death sounds of assimilation. Meanwhile, Israel is once again the center of Jewish civilization and independence, as the country steams forward, in a few years there will be 10 million Israelis. It's pretty obvious that soon Judaism will be alive in a healthy and natural way only in the Jewish national state.

Only the Orthodox in the Galut will have Jewish descendants. All the other Jews there will just assimilate away.It's already obvious. As for the Jews of Israel, as long as they stay here, most of their offspring will be Jewish, even if they are not religious.

First of all, there are dozens of states that officially call themselves muslem and christian states, apart from being a nation state (the Islamic republic of...etc)! Second, the jews are a PEOPLE and has for thousands of years regarded itself as a nation with their roots in the Land of Israel. The problem is that too many people don´t understand that this jewish nation also shares a religion. But, as you know, there are many secular jews who STILL see themselves as part of the Jewish NATION. So: 1) Should there be dozens of muslim and christian states but only the Jews couldn't have one? and 2) all other nations could have a state, except the jewish nation?? I hope you are just ignorant, otherwise your views are really scary..

The propaganda war has been won and the main stream media can claim victory. They've been vilifying Israel for over 30 years and much of their filth has been absorbed by the impressionable youth.

My message to all Jews (not just American) who couldn't care less if Israel is destroyed is quite simple. The destruction of Israel, should it happen, will be accompanied by a worldwide wave of antisemitism so great that it will make the present period of perpetual vilification seem like a golden age by comparison. Those who say that Israel has no right to exist will naturally follow up by saying that Jews have no right to exist (which they think anyway but don't at present say outright). The inevitable consequence is that all Jews will be slated for genocide. While this will happen first in Europe, American Jews would be extremely foolish to think that it can't happen to them. Assimilation and identification with the country of residence will be of no benefit, because Jews will not be regarded as legitimate citizens. Have the lessons of the Shoah not been learnt at all? A Jewish state - Israel - is vital to all Jews worldwide.

I don't see how you can make such broad sweeping generalizations about all left wingers and left wing Jews. I know plenty of liberal Jews in the diaspora who are more loyal to Israel than many Israelis are! The problem has nothing to do with left wing, or with right wing, or with religious, or with secular. The "problem" (if you can call it that) is that these Jews are raised in a Western culture which highly values human rights (both left AND right wingers), especially in the so-called heart of the free world. What can we expect them to think when they are raised to treasure these rights and then see something like the last war in Lebanon? This has nothing to do with a hypothetical 5 million Jews dying - we saw thousands of REAL arabs dying in last summer's war. Again I repeat, the problem was not the war itself. The war was a justified one. The problem was Israel's ridiculous conduct DURING this war, which achieved nothign and alienated millions of Israel's dwindling supporters, wether Jewish or not.

As a teen I quit school and volunteered during the Yom Kippur War. Throughout my adulthood I have been a vocal supporter of Israel and have flown the Mogan David above my business for years. I am now struggling to come to terms with a very different Israel. Apathy and careless indifference have infected the mainstream and corruption and cowardice thrive in the government. The once mighty IDF has become less than effective and the entire country seems to have lost it's moral compass. Olmert is dismantling the country with nary a peep from the opposition. I can understand the disenchantment.

oyster.. Here's the kicker. Without Israel you'd be so down the totem pole that the blacks whom you like to champion would be above you. Israel has given backbone to all Jews around the world. Yes there are those brain dead idiots who would love to love everyone and who confuse that with Judaism, but the truth is that a tough Jew is a live Jew. So as the American Jews pander about looking for the next goy to bed, Israel with all its faults is still the place to be, should you be a proud Jew. In good time the dreckmeisters leading Israel at this time will be taken down and in good time Israel will be lead by caring selfless Jews. The question has to be asked where would you rather be. Should you decide to place your bets with the goyim than by all means stay there and melt. That’s all I have to say...now let me get back to making money...that’s what I do best.

I was raised with identification with Israel, attended Zionist day schools and summer camps. Now, all I can sadly say is that Israel is greatly responsible for this indifference and alienation. American Jews have let their own institutions crumble while sending billions every year to Israel. Now we see an Israel that has more economic disparity than the Bush USA. We see old pensioners and holocaust survivors suffering and needy. We see Sephardim and Ethiopian Jews routinely treated like trash. We see Israel has become a country like any other. And we wonder: why do we sacrifice the Judaism of our own youth for the sake of an Israel that plays us for fools? Don't forget the lessons of history: the only reason we even have a Jewish State today is because there was a Diaspora when the Romans destroyed Israel. We do best when we don't put all our eggs in one basket. As for me, I"m donating my charitable funds for the education of young US Jews.

the non religious are doing to Israel and all Jews. They poke fun at Orthodox being this way or that, old timers or not modern enough for the times we live in. Not tolerant to gays or other destroyers of Judaism. If orthodox became tolerant as reformed who will support Israel. This has nothing to do with olmert and friends. This has to do with religion or not.

If, according to the article, only 1/3 of the six million U.S. Jews belong to a congregation, this represents two million people. Of that number, the article claims that the Orthodox make up only 8%, i.e. 160,000. I'm positive there are more Orthodox jews Jews in Brooklyn alone (Crown Heights, Williamsburg, Boro Park and Flatbush/Midwood, just to give you some neighborhoods). Where did you get your inaccurate numbers from?

Aharon As usual, American Jews wiil do anything even sell there grandparents just to please there fellow liberals. Nothing changed in 60 yeaers. If you bypass history according to NY Times you will discover that during WW2 american liberal jews and there organizations actively try to block and destroy anybody who try to rescrue Jews in Europe. So this news is nothing new today.

What do non-Orthodox American Jews really have to celebrate about Israel? They are largely successful people leading normal lives in one of the best places in the world. Israel is to them an embarrassment and who can blame them: we're a place in which a tiny religious minority calls the shots on everything from war and peace to what a private citizen can with themselves on Saturday.

The diffrence is each Moslem or Christian belong to the coumtry where he is borned , if an Egyptian Muslem went to live in Syria he will stay Egyptian and will never say that Syria is his home land but you you bring just Jewish people from around the world to Israel and try to convience them that Israel is their home lans which is not true , look at your self in Israel , how many cultures and languages ... how many coloures and traditions ... and you call them all Israelians in their home land ... you say that all the Jews belong to Israel ... to which country all the Moslems belong ?? to which country all the Christians belong ?? even the pudists they don't belong to one country ... this is Jewish fanatism ... already alot are escaping from Israel and can you imagin alot from them to where .... to Germany ... imagin .

Our incredulity at understanding this trend is surprising. Having made aliyah in the past (in the early '70s) and having lived in Israel for 25 years, none of this is surprising. Israel far from welcomes its newcomers. In order to succeed in Israel, the basic requirement is to be WASP (White Ashkenazi Sabra with Protekzia). When we lived in the diaspora, we were called (by Israel and its representatives) Jews, and encouraged to make aliyah. On immigrating to Israel, we were then called by the nationality of our country of origin. Israel is probably one of the more racist and discriminatory places on this planet and ironically against the very people that it wishes to attract - Jewish immigrants. Every visit to Israel, leaves one with the felling of having been ripped off. A foreigner is looked upon as an object to be exploited. Within Israel, there is an Israel Aleph, from North Tel-Aviv to Caesarea. Anything outside those bounds is Israel Beth, and those citizens are treated accordingly. Quite often, you speak with an Israeli, and ask him/her about the situation in Sderot and the quintissential response is "I don't know or care. For me, all of Israel is Ramat HaSharon/Tel Aviv." While I would not go as far as saying that Israel is an embarassment to Jews in the diaspora, as some people do, I would certainly add that Israelis are definitely an embarassment with their obnoxious/racist/outrageous behaviour and their cries of Anti-Semitism when something does not go their way.

do you think for a second if religion was not involved they would be pro Israel. They get their ideas from their college liberal non jewish friends, the American media etc who don't even know of religion in Israel, some of them Jewish themselves who constantly knock the IDF and the fence and the army killing children. Everything they knock has nothing to do with religion. Before Israel was Israel these so called successful people whom you claim lead normal lives [which you obviously no proof for because so many are not married, or married to non Jew or gay WHICH MIGHT BE NORMAL FOR ISRAELI but not for the typical American family] These people are embarrassed of everything Jewish. And as # 25 said during WWII when Rabbis led a march in DC to save all Jews from the holocaust, reformed Jews as Steven Wise convinced the president not to meet with them. The rest is history so go learn some you ignorant anti Jewish dumbell

for Israel speaks volumes: they are FOR Israel. Walk through Sheba-Chaim Medical Center and see all the thousands upon thousands of donors whose names are engraved on plaques wherever you go.