Arab-Israeli group: National service offshoot of occupation army
Roee Nahmias
Published: 13.09.07, 23:44
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1. If govn't has honest intention...then it should
Rami ,   Nazareth, Israel   (09.14.07)
launch a campain detailing to Israeli-Arabs how will their quality of life improved and how discrimination will be eradicated once they do their national duty.. the voice of "balanda' should not be the only voice to be heard.
2. Leave If You Don't Like Living in Israel
Dave Levy ,   Burbank. CAUSa   (09.14.07)
The Israeli-Arabs will accept Israeli government money, partly thanks to the contributions of Jews worldwide, Israeli security, Israeli benefits like social security, and welfare, Israeli aid to their local infrastructure, YET THEY WON'T LIFET A FINGER TO HELP THEIR OWN COUNTRY. But it's also Israel's fault, which for all these years has made them feel no obligation. So, they can shift their loyalties back and forth, without restrictions., to Hez, to Hamas, to radical Islamists, to the Palestinians, with impunity. Israel has yet to figure out how to get out of this quagmire, it created in part. It should hold back allocations of money to any Arab town, and benefits, until the Arabs get the picture. If they don't like it, give them 1 way tickets to Jordan., where they will prosper, they think. No Arab is forced to live in Israel.
3. If Israelis don't know what Arabs need...
Drew ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (09.14.07)
then PARTICIPATE in this program and EDUCATE Israeli Jews what Israeli arabs need. All you're doing is furthering yourself from the Israeli public and creating a rift between Jews and Arabs, and causing the Jewish Israelis to wonder why you are still in Israel.
4. No draft, no welfare and no citizenship
Frank   (09.14.07)
5. One Million JEWISH Refugees & Descendants MustBe Compensated
Linda Rivera ,   New York   (09.14.07)
Around, and after 1948, one million Jews suffered violent RELIGIOUS Jew cleansing from Arab countries. Arab governments seized the land, farms, homes, hospitals, schools, businesses and bank accounts of the Jews. Most Jewish refugees fled to Israel where the religious terror war against Jews NEVER stops. Cruel Global war is waged to subjugate every nation under Islamic sharia law - it is unacceptable to Islamists for Jews to have self-rule in TINY Israel. The 1948 Jewish refugees and their descendants who make up about half of Israel's Jewish citizens MUST be compensated in land and finances! See:
6. outlaw all arab organizations!
oded   (09.14.07)
that preach hatred and are against the stae!
7. stay home arabs.
we don't want you to serve because each one of you may be a potential enemy and spy working against our nation
8. What a bore!
Ariel ,   London   (09.14.07)
Is this news? Please tell us something else. And why would anyone want to force the Arab population to serve in the Army? aren't there enough enemies already, why buy some more?
9. A new law is required
Sagi ,   Israel   (09.13.07)
No national service, lose citizenship. Bye bye Arabs, bye bye Haredim.
10. "ask not what your country can do for you," etc...
arabs should listen to JFK
11. As usual, Israeli Arabs shooting themselves in the foot!
The Doc ,   Haifa, Israel   (09.14.07)
They refuse to do ANYTHING that benefits society, even THEIR society! And then they moan that the society does not regard them as "equals", that they are not offered enough jobs in the Hi-Tec sector and that the society is too suspicious of them. Well, NOT SURPRISING! When your morally corrupt and racist "leaders" incite to violence, to secession and they themselves become turncoats and traitors then don't expect to be accepted "as is", to be embraced by a society that you hate with every fiber of your soul and to be trusted without hesitation. Dear Israeli Arabs, your future lies with an honest loyalty and moral integration into Israel and not with the primitive and corrupt Muslim regimes which have been promising you "the destruction of Israel". And then what? Do you honestly believe that you will build a dream and model country? Do you believe that you will have peace and prosperity? Look around! Arabs are living in poverty and despair, killing each other over religion, power, money, oil. Your "freed Palestine" will become a war zone between Syria, Hezbollah, Egypt, Iran and of course, your beloved Hamas and PLO and PFLP and God knows how many other crazed, hate filled, blood-hungry gangs. You have been duped for generations! You've lost countless opportunities to make yourself an organic part of the modern and free Israeli society, but maybe freedom, education and prosperity has never been for you anyway... You reap what you sow! What a heap of pathetic losers!
12. This is more proof that they are not loyal
jason white ,   afula,israel   (09.14.07)
We should really make them second class citizens. No university,no right to vote,no driver's licenses,no business licenses,no building permit,no child allowances,ect. They should pay a defense tax for each member of the family.This also should cover Jews who do not serve!
13. Israeli style racism
Zuri ,   Sydney Australia   (09.14.07)
I am shocked but maybe not so surprised to here all this absolute garbage. All Israelis have same right like any other Israelis and we come from the same land. What we should try understand how to work the future together and what is going to be consequenses of our actions. As Israelis our costitution say "without any difference to colour creed or religion", on this basis we should try to reconcile and stop any animocity between us. If we won't do it now our future will always be in a state of fear, concern and on the defensive, do you really want to live like this for the rest of your life. Almost every jewish Israeli on this site has expressed hatered and concern, but not single one confirmed the equal rights of Israeli Arabs to live with us in democracy. It is time to think peace and the future is in our hands, we must think fair solution for our cousins and stop the tear between us. Shalom Salam
14. jason white
Richard ,   London UK   (09.14.07)
It is quite shocking to read the reaction to this story - talking about 'expelling' people and the 'enemy within'. I mean that's the words the nazis used. Jason wants to take away all the rights of the Arabs - just as happened to the Jews in Germany in the 30s. Why not build a wall around them to keep 'them' all in? Oh, you've already done that. At least, I suppose, that whether we are German, Isreali, Iranian, English, Korean whatever, we are all alike. Cruelty does not belong exclusively to one nation.
15. #9 - Equalization
H.H.M ,   Jerusalem   (09.14.07)
To equalize in this case Haredim to Arabs is a part truth only . - Cut down on a budget to the Haredim and increase budget to Arabs simultaneously and then you can think of equalizing.
16. Don't do us any favours ....
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (09.14.07)
There is nothing we can do to make loyal citizens out of people who don't want to be. I'm not much in favour of community service programs anyway - they're too much of an incentive to avoid military service & the money for these programs would be better spent on benefits for those who serve. So if the Israeli Arabs don't do community service, does this mean compulsory military service. No, who wants to give an enemy military training? So, no community service, no military service. Next to consider - state benefits. Should those who don't contribute to the general welfare be denied benefits such as health insurance, educational subsidies, child support, etc.? I would say yes, but also that the result would lead to many more problems. Then what is is best course of action? It's in the back of everyone's mind anyway. Coexistence has failed. We don't belong in the same political entity.
17. Baladna...(Our nation) ???
Franklin ,   France   (09.14.07)
That campaign his out of ambiguity regarding the progress made for a future Palistan. A large category of Israelis citizens are afraid to be seen like traitors or collaborators vis à vis a "true" and genuine Palestinian identity. How to be positively ...and usefully distinguished by Fatah or Hamas in the future turbulences to come ? How to act now, to erase our past status and build our next to correlate with A Palestinian state ? To be or not to be...Israeli... Palestinian...Bi-national..Traitor... Bridge or Hidden tunnel...?? Maybe a conveniant Time bomb to finalize and accomplish the dilution of a Jewish state ??
18. And one more thing...
Keren ,   Israell-SP   (09.14.07)
No cooperation towards Jews,has been the arab policy since ever. Israel must stop appeasing the unappeasable! No service to Israel?NO health;no social security;no nothing for them then!
19. Terry
Richard ,   London UK   (09.14.07)
What is in the back of everyone's mind? Expel them? Put them on trains and drive them out? Isreal itself receives billions and billions of dollars and euro subsidy from the US and the EU but what exactly does Isreal do to 'earn' that benefit? Expelling is not the answer. Or if it is then it is the answer of the degenerate and the fascist.
20. No. 13 Zuri
NYC Girl   (09.14.07)
Israeli Arabs have more rights in Israel than any Jew (or most Christians for that matter) would ever have in many Arab countries. So, while you may be critical of certain aspects of Israeli society, accusing the country of "racism" is just a lot of useless, inflammatory rhetoric and demeans those who have been the victims of real the aborigines of Australia, for instance.
21. The basis of territorial ownership
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (09.14.07)
Arab minorities claim that they "own" the land of Israel because they happen to live there. If living in the land makes you the owner, anyone could and should own it - Jews and non-Jews alike. And the Jews have lived in the Middle East and Europe for 2000 years, so according to the logic of the Arabs, we Jews own the Arab world and the European continent. If being a majority population makes you the owner, the Arabs have to be prepared for a future scenario where non-Arabs might be in majority in Arab states. Will the Arabs give up their land to non-Arabs? If history is not important to determine who owns what, it is then unneccesary to base Arab "ownership" based on history. In that case, Jews on the land of Israel as well, because the Jews live there today. If the thought, belief or attitude that "this land is mine" makes you the owner, the Jews own the land of Israel as well, because Jews consider Israel to be their land. If history is important, we can reach the conclusion that biblical Israel was the first nation state in the Land of Israel and that Jews have lived in Israel for 4000 years - even during the Diaspora. Arabs have lived in the land maximum for 1400 years. If buildind cities makes you the owner of the land, the Arabs have a poor record. For 1400 years, the Arabs built only one city in Israel - Ramle. All the "Arab" cities in Judea and Samaria, were built on the ruins of ancient, biblical Israelite cities and the "Arab" names have simply Arabized allready existing Hebrew names. If having a state makes you the owner of the land, the Jews own the land and not the Arabs. The Jews had a state as early as 1000 B.C.E and the Jews still have a state. That means that Jews are the legal owners of the land and it doesn´t matter who happened to live there before the Jews(Canaanites) or after Jews(Arabs), the Jews own the land. If we say that having a state based on historical claims doesn´t make you the owner, does that mean that no state is sovereign and independent, neither in Europe nor the rest of the world? Does it mean that no state has a legal and moral foundation? If that is the case, does that mean that it was "okay" for Hitler to conquer Poland and Holland? If Arab anti-Semites claim that nobody owns nothing and that the Wild West is the "rule" of the world, how then can they base their claims to Israel, if they can´t make the claims based on morality, justice, legal claims and law and order?
22. # 19 Richard
Sagi ,   Israel   (09.14.07)
No one wants to expel. I have known the Arabs and in particular the Palestinians all my life, and that is a long long time. I know them very intimately, just take my word for it. There is no institutional racism in Israel, there is understandable animosity. The indigenous Arab population in Israel have exactly the same rights and privileges as all others, they serve in all branches of public service, they are free to attend any university and pursue any vocation they wish. The problem is that they do not want Israel to exist, they have filled their heads with nonsense about stolen land and refugees and Israel being the agent of the Great Satan etc. instead of buckling down to coexistence with us. They constantly undermine the State and stab us in the back, their leaders incite. This land is our home, it belongs to us, forget about God and ancient history, it was given to us by The United Nations, yesterday, not 4000 years ago. Why, because the international community realized the grave injustice caused to the Jews, dispersed from their land, deprived of their birthright and persecuted for centuries. We have welcomed the Arabs to be partners in full citizenship, they reject this and reject us the same as they reject all and anything which is not Islam. As I said no one wants to expel, they should just realize once and for all, become citizens, loyal and dedicated, or leave to their own folk. In short, we are prepared to live with them, all they want to do is kill us. The whole problem of the Arabs and their attitude to you and I has nothing to do with Israel and so called occupied lands, it has its roots deep in Islam, the Koran and the cult and teachings of their Prophet. All in this world is anathema to them other than their way of life, total submission to God and his will, the problem is they have decided what God's will is, both for themselves and for you and I. Christianity acted in much the same way for hundreds of years until they underwent enlightenment. Judaism never acted this way. We have no will to impose our way or our thoughts on anyone. I am totally objective in all I say because I really wish to live with my neighbors in peace and understanding and on the comparison of religions, I am an atheist so I am immune to ctriticism for bias thoughts. Have a nice day.
23. #19 Richard in London UK
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (09.14.07)
You forgot to call me a racist in your little tirade. I don't see what degenerate means in this context but I assure you I'm not a fascist. In any case, just tossing around empty liberal rhetoric does nothing to analyse a serious problem. You're not happy with the "generous" subsidies to Israel? What do we do to deserve them? Well, I would ask you what all the aid given to Palestinians has accomplished? All things considered, you think they deserve it? But this is not the question at hand. The question at hand is that we have a large & generally hostile minority who do not identify with their country of residence. And if current trends continue, this hostility will only increase. This is not the only place in the world with an ethnic/religious conflict. Would you rather see a situation as in Sri Lanka which has claimed over 60,000 lives? To use a simple analogy, should two people remain together if they fight all the time? No, they get a divorce. Separation of our two communities is a better long-term solution. This is not a question of "integrating" a minority because that implies that the minority desires integrating. They do not. On the contrary, they would like to see the dissolution of our state. We have the right to defend that state, including the right to remove those that would destroy it. I have said it many times in these talk-backs - I am in no way a racist. If these were peaceful Buddhists, I would never think to remove them from our country. But a large & hostile minority that identifies with our surrounding enemies is a security risk that will come to no good end. They are ideologically opposed to the very existence of the country they live in. I am not such an altruist that I would acquiesce in the suicide of my own country.
24. sagi and terry
Richard ,   London UK   (09.14.07)
Your reply Sagi was very eloquent. The territory was given to European jews in light of the gross indecencies (in particular 1940 - 45) perpetrated, mostly by Europeans, on other Europeans of Jewish faith. I am not arguing with that. It's right and it's justified. My issue is with intolerance - not that I am aiming that accusation at you. I detect a very strong suggestion in some of the feedback that Arabs, all Arabs - should be expelled from Isreal. The suggestion that Arabs are a 'large and hostile' minority 'who do not identify with their country of residence' is fascist talk. We get it in England about immigrants. Mosley used to talk like that back in the 30's about immigrants from Eastern Europe. How can a powerless minority in England or in Isreal be a threat to the culture and society as a whole? Regarding the subsidy - the money the EU gives to the Palestinian Authority is to keep the poulation alive. Without it the people inside the walls, surrounded by the guns and tanks would die. But perhaps that's what they deserve? The EU does not provide any weapons to the PA.
25. #13: Who on earth is us?
Ariel ,   London   (09.14.07)
No. 13 wrote ..."Almost every jewish Israeli on this site has expressed hatered and concern, but not single one confirmed the equal rights of Israeli Arabs to live with us in democracy. " Has it occurred to you that you can not make peace with a wall? If they wont to integrate, instead of supporting Hamas or Hezbollah across the border, I am sure they would be accepted.
26. #14: Richard
Ariel ,   London   (09.14.07)
Very well said Richard. Lets hope you remember these same sentiments when another suicide bomb goes off in Israel.
27. Ariel london
Richard ,   London UK   (09.14.07)
I will also remember these sentiments when a Palestinain woman or child is blown apart by a missile fired from a fighter jet. Suicide bombs are cowardly and indiscriminate. But so are missiles from from F15s. No one is guilty and no one is innocent in this scenario.
28. #11
you talk about ARAB SOCIETY in your talkback. please let me enlighten you on the subject. ARABS HAVE NEVER HAD A SOCIETY THAT IS ORGANIZED AROUND SOCIAL PRINCIPLES AND VALUES OF COHESIVENESS, LAW, ORDER AND PROGRESS LIKE THE WESTERN SOCIETIES THAT WE HAVE AROUND THE CIVILIZED WORLD. this is a fact if you happen to look at arab culture, history and politics in general. READ THE CLOSED CIRLCE BY DAVID PRYCE-JONES, an extensive study, and a very accurate one at that, of the arab/muslim mental set and the organization in their so called society. it resembles non of the values that are applauded in the modern western cultures of then and now. arabs/muslims DO NOT HAVE A SOCIETY THAT IS COHESIVE. THEY HAVE CLANS AND RELIGIOUS SECT CLANS, which are not loyal to the general country or a general society body. they are only loyal to the clan leader, sheikh, head of the clan or any religious leader that represents the clan. these clans are basically either familymembers and extended families or religious groups with similar ideological values. therefore, they cannot be loyal to a single society and therefore you see in the middle east entire periods of unrest, wars, clan feuds, death, killings, riots and regimes that are toplled. order can't be instituted and law doesn'r apply because each clan is fighting for power due to shame/honor tactics and fighting for an important place of their own. there are land feuds, power feuds, killings between families, etc... all for power. the only way that the arab world can be governed is through a dictatorship and this is exactly why the only leaders in arab lands and countries are ruthless dictators that subject the masses to extreme measures of punishments, opressions and degradations of many kinds. in order for same dictatorships to survive they rule with an iron fist, murdering oppositions, assassinating disloyal members and generally keep the masses uneducated, religious and misinformed as to render them completely useless in their power struggle against these regomes. the only way left is to fight amongst themselves. this has been arab societal history for ages and ages. this is why they never advance or progress. this is why, if oil has not been discovered on their lands to somewhat increase the monetary amount in these regimes' pockets, no advancement would have ever taken place, if one can even call them an advanced countries. without oil, most will still be living in the dark ages. arabs do not work as a cohesive society because they are too divided along religious, clan and sect lines. they do not know the meaning of working as a cohesive society for the betterment of their country. the concept is foreign to them. they just can't produce or keep developing along the same line as most civilized human beings. what the world sees done in gaza or west bank or iran or syria is just the regular practice in the arab societies and it shouldn't surprise any modern free thinking individual to see the atrocities, mayhem and craziness that rules these people because they have done so throughout their history. the arab loyalty is to thier clan, not the government and this is why their societies may never be cohesive or democratic, never mind civilized in the way we conduct our affairs in the western world. once we comprehend that bringing democracy to such a people is futile, we can start washing our hands of their issues, develope other sources for fule for western economy and continue to develope and change ourselves rather than hoplessly try to change them. professor at u. of chicago
29. To the intellectual giant Richard, nr 19
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (09.14.07)
The total nation budget of Israel exceeds $150 billion US and the American "aid" involves approximately $3 billion US. The American "aid" is meant to finance the American military industry by handing out American money to Israel, in order for Israel to purchase American weapons. Israel cannot purchase anything at all from any nation with this sum of money and Israel cannot buy anything else from the US than US military equipment. $3 billion percentage wise, is a very small amount of money compared to the entire Israeli budget. After WW2, the US handed out billions of dollars to Europe and Japan. It was NOT a loan - the Europeans and the Japanese could keep all the hundreds of billions of dollars without paying back a cent, focusing on rebuilding Europe and Japan. What do you call that if not PARASITE BEHAVIOR? Israel on the contrary ALWAYS pays back EVERY SINLGE CENT that it borrows from the US and the rest of the world, earning acclaim from the World Bank. Tell me something Richard: would the UK, Germany, Poland, Russia, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria, France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Hungary, Slovakia, Czhech Republic, Republic of Ireland, Romania, Bulgaria, Belarus, Ukraine and so on, acquiesce to commit national suicide by letting ethnic minorities annihilating these host nations through the means of demographic warfare, terrorism, rewriting of the history of the host nations and support and sympathies with the enemies of those countries? Answer another question: if God made all men equal, doesn´t it also imply that all men have equal rights and equal freedom? If yes, doesn´t that mean that all nations have 1) The same national rights and 2) the same individual rights and obligations? The French have national rights in France but not in the rest of the world. Great Britian has national rights in Great Britain but not elsewere. Israel has national rights in Israel but not in the Arab world nor in the rest of the world. The Arabs have national rights in 20 Arab states, but not in Israel(including Gaza, Judea, Samaria, Jerusalem and Golan) nor in the rest of the world. Israeli and Arab national rights can coexist, provided that the territorial and demographical survival of both parties are accepted and respected. Arabs do not deserve a state on a single grain of sand in the Land of Israel, between the River of Jordan and the Mediterranean Sea.
30. Baladna, stop your destructive propaganda!
By embracing national service, the Arab population in Israel will really start having an idea what Israeli citizenship really means. It's not only rights you are shouting for, it should be equally responsibilities. Stop your old hate laden propaganda and really, do something constructive, together with the Jewish majority of Israel.
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