Opinion
Socioeconomic time bomb
Danny Gutwein
Published: 17.09.07, 07:07
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26 Talkbacks for this article
1. Israel has followed worldwide tendencies...
Keren ,   Israel-SP   (09.17.07)
but it shouldn't. Israel should control its boat in its own peculiar way-THE ROSH ,NOT THE ZANAV-,following the principles of the older heritage alive in the world-Judaism, and following our own brains,not other's brains. If it would be followed,no injustices would occur and the society would not be at risk to be rotten. And,if corruption was controlled,those in charge for the well being of the country would do their jobs the way they should,more seriously and altruisticaly,and not by looking to their own pockets and particular interests.
2. If growth the result of global factors what about the US?
Ilan ,   Ariel   (09.17.07)
Something must be wrong with his logic. Israel's economic growth is measurably better than the US so attributing it only to external factors can't be right. On the other side there is nothing here to support a claim that returning to large child allowances would either reduce poverty or produce "economic equality" (whatever that is). The government needs to tax less and use the money it gets more wisely. We shouldn't be spending more per capita on education and getting only mediocre results. We shouldn't be pouring billions into Channel 1 & 2 and getting maudlin propaganda as the only exchange. And political activists like Gutwein shouldn't be on the public payroll.
3. The Failure of Centrally Planned Economies is a Proven Fact
Jim   (09.17.07)
Nevertheless, Israel must provide an economic safety net to protect the weakest citizens from starvation -- while at the same time preventing intentional abuse of the welfare system (such as breeding litters of suicide bombers on the Israeli dole).
4. The economy...
josef cohen ,   herzliya   (09.17.07)
The economy in Israel will continue to drag until they reform the public sector. Resources that could and should be going to assist the least advantaged, education etc are constantly diverted to public sector employment. The public sector is a continuing drag on the whole country. Then there is the Iand admin that corruptly parcels out land creating an artificial shortage to the benefit of gov't coffers to the continuing prejudice of consumers. And of course there is the gov't (doesn't matter which party) which is run like a mafia looking for there cut in every transaction.... The 'Netanyahu' capitalism has gone to far in letting private concerns do what the state should be doing. Cities should provide drinkable water so people should not be forced to buy bottled water, Nor should be parents be paying for so many school items because the schools don't have money.....
5. There is no economic justice in Israel
Richard ,   New York, USA   (09.17.07)
And that is exactly why Israelis are leaving the country and going elsewhere.
6. Economy and water will doom us
JPS ,   Efrat   (09.17.07)
That the government ignores poverty is a known issue in the papers every week. The other big issue that will doom us is the stupidity of Israel's national water policy. What's the policy? Use use use use use more water, don't conserve, don't reduce consumption, and instead of dealing with overuse we should spend billion$ to build desalination plants. The aquifers continue to become more polluted due to salt water incursion and pollution, the rainy seasons are not what they used to be, and instead of dealing with the problem head on the politicians go for grandiose schemes. For a country of smart people, we have a lot of morons in charge.
7. so poverty didn't exist til netanyahu invented it?
justanotherdemagogue   (09.17.07)
homelessness? different classes? if everything was perfect before 2003 or before bezeq and bank leumi was privatized, why did Lenin need a bolshevik revolution? sorry, but as convenient as it is - you can't blame netanyahu for all of the world's problems.
8. Taxes
Seymour   (09.17.07)
You know what bugs me? I lose 60% of my salary - yes you heard correct - 60% of my salary in taxis, kupat cholim, etc. I know of people who are getting salary slips for half the full amount and the rest "under the table" who pay little or nothing. They say they can't live on their salaries otherwise. Who's the mug?
9. Stupid articule
reader ,   Israel   (09.17.07)
The problem in Israel has nothing to do with capitalist economic policies. It has everything to do with the poor and uneducated having large families. These people either don't work at all and live off unemployment insurance or sit in comfortable public sector jobs doing nothing for economic growth. It is the educated and intelligent people who drive economic growth, especially in an intellectually driven economy such as Israel's. Policies need to be implemented to discourage the weaker sectors from having large families.
10. Socioeconomic time bomb
Roxy ,   Israel   (09.17.07)
The problem is that the wealth in this country is only in a few hands, while the rest of us struggle to put food on the table. Many small businesses in the North went bankrupt because of the war last summer, and the "help" that the gov. said it would provide to the small businessses never materialized. So now you have an even greater number of people in economic crisis. The gov figures about the economy are bloated and lies, if you want to see the real truth check out how many small businesses went under due to the war, check the number of people requiring food aid for the holidays, how many people are homeless, cannot afford medications and then you will get a better idea about how the economy here really is! That is why many Israelis are leaving this country , for better wages, economic conditions, schools etc, and frankly I don't blame them!
11. Slogans instead of sound economics.
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (09.17.07)
First of all, any discussion of income distribution or income gaps or poverty generally must refer to specific population groups. Then these population groups must be analysed as to relevant characteristics such as educational level, age distribution, etc. For example, we can look at Haredim, Bedouin, Arabs, Israeli Jews, & recent immigrants - each group analysed separately. But in a more general approach, economic inequality is a function of education. Any discussion that does not take into consideration educational reform is not serious. Other considerations are sound fiscal policy, lower taxes, increased productivity, more competition in key economic sectors (banking especially), less gov't bureaucracy, & political reforms that include greater transparency & accoountability in gov't. But the key is education. Slogans & populist appeals are not the answer.
12. what happened to israel's dream?
traintalk ,   northern israel   (09.17.07)
Have the people of the book gone the same way as the US and UK, as portrayed in the recent BBC documentary by Adam Curtis - The Trap: What Happened to Our Dream of Freedom? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8372545413887273321&q=adam+curtis+trap&total=47&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
13. To: Danny Gutwein - Something New?
David ,   Karmiel, Israel   (09.17.07)
The fact is the rich get richer and the poor, well they don't have a place to have children. The real tragedy is that the majority of the people mof thius country are totally apathetic. When last did you see students come and protest for a cuase which isno directly related University fees. The people of Israel have no social concience and the poiticians make full use of this. When you fid a cure for Israeli Apathy, let us know.
14. We truly need to be saved from ourselves! So sad
Shiloh ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (09.17.07)
15. netanyahu
fish   (09.17.07)
I wonder what the socialists would do if there were no Netanyahu... how convenient it is for them to have an excuse for everything - "It's because of Bibi!" A typical socialist idea is the re-distribution of wealth, and funnily enough a lot of people buy, because they think that monies taken from the rich in taxes will go to the benefit of poor and starved. It's rubbish - this money will go where the gpovernment will want to allocate it, namely - paychecks to religious schools in order to sustain the coalition, to colossal public sector, "peace process", Rabin centre etc. The poor and needy will not get a penny. I hate this failed theories with all my heart, just read what this dimwitted person writes - "distributive justice"! Meaning - I worked very hard, I got good education, I started my business, I risked my money, and finally I made a profit. Now comes the government and say - Hey, pay 60% of what you earned to us - will give it o the poor, needy etc. But wait - I already paid VAT, withholding tax, etc., what else do you want from me? More? Thank you very much, but I won't do any more business in this country and will leave it. (Other people may start double accounting). So who gains? You kill a goose that golden eggs in the name of justice? Which justice? The right economy encourages people to make money, to seek education and better employment, and the government must take care of education, and tax/ business layout of the country. In Russia some 90 years all the money was taken from the rich and distributed among poor and you know what? The poor became even poorer, and those people who distributed wealth all of a sudden became nouveau riches. Stop talking about equality - there's no such thing. There's always somebody stronger, brighter, cleverer, more resourceful, more successful .All reseacrhes show that up to 20% of population in any give country is completely unemployable, because they don't work to work and don't want to learn. To try to make people equal is a PURELY COMMUNIST IDEA, which finished with Gulags, khmers rouges, Chniese Great Leap, Albanian Enver Hodzha, N. Korea "chuch'he" ideology. DO YOU WANT THIS EQUALITY? Because this is what you'll get in the end. And stop attacking Netanyahu, you want Amir Peretz, or Baiga Shohat ( the latter has a belly of such a colossal size, that you unwillingly start thinking where the wealth goes to), or Ben-Eliezer? Again party apparatchiks, who don't know a damn about monies?
16. #15 Fish, take a break & go fishing will you????
(09.17.07)
17. Meanwhile ........
Hiram ,   tel aviv   (09.17.07)
...corrupted MK who use to drive State provided VOLVO are bitching because they will drive a "german provided car " ....... Expensive parasites !
18. You can't peddle greed and social cohesion!
Logic ,   Israel   (09.17.07)
There's a paradox afoot here in Israel: You can't peddle greed and social cohesion at the same time. You can't have extreme capitalism, but at the same time tell all citizens to join the military for years on end, instead of using that time to prepare for capitalistic-oriented careers. It's a fact that most people enter the job market in the USA by the age of 23. In Israel it's definitely many years later. This, in combination with the low employment rate of Arabs and some Ultra Religious, gives Israel the lowest labor participation rate in the West. In addition, Israel has a small local economy, and there are limits to internal trading, unlike the USA, which has a significant internal economy. I suggest that the various parties decide what type of economy we want: more capitalistic than America, or social-democratic like Ireland and Canada. In my opinion, given the constraints and challenges of this land, the latter is more appropriate. By the way, I pray that Bibi doesn't dismantle the universal health care coverage we have here. It would be disgusting to force veterans (i.e. a significant part of the country) to apply for care via their civilian employers.
19. A different measurement standard
C McCoy ,   Canada   (09.17.07)
The fact that the same problem exists in Canada attracts little media attention and little angst among those prosperous. Perhaps it is simply Israel expects more social justice out of itself, given its emphasis on this in the past.
20. RAISE MINUMUM SALARIES !!!
israel   (09.17.07)
21. What's the USE? Same old story for YEARS!
ys ,   Israel   (09.17.07)
Nothing's changed for 30 years in helping the weaker segments of society in Israel - NOT A THING. The money the country generates is STILL going towards MK, PM and presidential kickbacks, the rest is spent on stupid military budgets, building ineffective walls and infrustructures and education of the masses on self-sufficiency, esteem, health maintenance and/or affordable housing - ZILCH. It's not even a consideration - as if concepts of empowerment of the people of Israel are simply not existant. The pattern of enriching the rich on the backs of the uneducated seems clear. The saddest part? Is the trend continuing with everyone in a pitiful state of denial about the severity of the situation.
22. Let the Kibbutzim Offer Affordable Housing to Poor
j.sherri ,   Israel   (09.17.07)
The kibbutzim need to open their gates to the poor and oppressed instead of living behind gates and manicured lawns and streets without a damn socialist care in the world. Where is the social justice when these conglomerate collectives sieze 10,000's dunam for their own private uses and not a peep from the government - who made it their land and why isn't there a law enforced for them to share this land with the homeless?? This is ludicrous! Also - make it mandatory to TITHE 10% from everyone towards helping the destitute, hungry and homeless. Make it the law of the LAND!
23. Here's an idea, pick up a hammer, get a
Steven Wilson ,   Anchorage, Alaska   (09.18.07)
rip saw and some nails....and build your own house. You don't have to be a rocket scientist. Get a easy set of blue prints to start with. A $250,000.00 dollar bank loan for a home will cost you around $600,000.00 dollars over 30 years with interest. Why spend your whole life paying for a house you could of built yourself on the cheap. The only reason most of these idiots in the United States need such high paying jobs is because they are being scammed by builders, bankers, real estate agents, and mortgage brokers. They could of built their own homes and avoided paying a million dollars to the bank for a measly shack in San Fransisco. If you don't owe a million.....you don't have to spend eight years in college trying to get the highest paying job in the United States. You just end up giving the money to the bank anyways.
24. #18 Agree and disagree
Citizen ,   Israel   (09.18.07)
I think our compulsory military service has prepared some of our best minds for the transition to the business environment, and to adulthood. A lack of professional genius is NOT what Israel has lacked - it is the infrastructure to sustain the huge outcomes. Why do we have to "sell everything for the parts"?
25. poverty
zichron   (09.18.07)
really the west should take in the poor for a ten year rotation with jobs and good pay . iran for world peace is spacious and must relieve gaza of its humanitarian stress by taking in for just ten years one million palestinians and finish its destructive nuclear plofieration
26. Talk is Cheap...
WorkingClassHero ,   Israel   (09.18.07)
and yes, actions speak louder than words. The fact that we all complain and analyze the situation, will not make one bit of a difference in our lives here. So, what's an underpaid person trying to etch out a living in this country to do? Well, short of # 23's good idea of being self-sufficient (hey, been there done that, remember, the Yishuv, Moshavim and the Kibbutzim?), I think it's about bloody time for us to stop being so damned apathetic and revolt against this shameful, corrupt, and deceitful government. As many of you already pointed out, they are draining our economy with their selfish demands and luxuries paid to MP's and other government mafia members. In other countries, when things get really bad for the people, they start something called a revolution. Problem in Israel is that we have a lot to say, but very few actually get out and try to change things. If anyone has any ideas on how to organize a mass rally against everything our government stands for, then I am in. And for those who are ready to say that it won't do any good, then it might be better to just keep on writing talkbacks here.
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