For you women have three functions : the three k's of nazi germany : kirche , kuchen , kinder . [ church , better synagogue for us . kitchen and children ] Now if you don't need women , take a good boyfriend and go to the pride parade .

While this article does hold truths, it was obviously being sarcastic and tongue in cheek. But you "feminists" are so busy screaming you didn't take the time to read it and internalize it. As Shai said why in the world do women want so badly to adapt traditionally male symbols of religion. I am not suggesting that you stay in the kitchen and pop out a baby once a year be a working professional go to shuirm or minian for women please, have a good time, but be happy with the tasks that have been giving by god. My wife does not like or know how to cook and I do so I do the cooking. Based on this switching of "primary" roles maybe this shabbos she should lain in shul??? No because thats what they do in the reform or conservative shul and we are "charedi" but even if you are only orthodox you wouldn't, because in the world everyone has there place in life. So go head scream and yell we stopped listening a long time ago! ask nicely and we might be willing to accommodate some of the mishugas...

This sort of BS is eons old. We are not chattle. Both my mother and grandmother were 'bartered' into unhappy marriages.Many countries had this horrid custum. Poor, miserable, non voiced women. We work, select our own husbands, raise children and thankfully, vote. I've always maintained that if women were paid the same as men we would be equal.( at least financially) Some men are small minded( perhaps a reflextion of other parts of their bodies) A good man loves a strong minded woman who speaks her mind and is not threatened. Men have never been satisfied to be men rather, would be a womans 'keeper'. May I suggest they get a dog who obeys commands? Or, get another compliable Male to live with? If you father children, why not baby sit as well? Such lunacy and by "rabbis" no less! No wonder Israel has problems, male chauvinists with power! We don't get "stoned' either perhaps theat's the real threat to Rabbis who have no sense or power. They can move to an Arab country and ( except for religion) have their wishes come true!

Perhaps the same writers are the ones who frequent the many whore houses in Israel? Nice, willing QUIET women who just take your money and laugh behind your backs? Where are the "holy men" then? Let them do something productive with the time they have because THE WOMEN ARE DOING ALL THE WORK? GET REAL!

In reply to #30 in a sense you are right, I went deaf at 18 and yes people trample on you a bit and no amount of screeching in the world is going to save me! I demanded to get equal treatment.. this is NOT done by flaunting my disability because frankly it never was or will be a "disability" Women who want the same treatment should shut up with the women discrimination part, you are just hanging your dirty lqaundry in public, your begging to be trampled on more. Society pity's and does not respect those that parade their disability's. I have many other "handicaps" and thousands around the world are testament that I have never allowed anything to restrict me, I even joke with ariel zilber the musician that I love his music ;) #32 charles - I moved to israel at 17, not only to i clean myself and cook, wash etc.. but I refuse the very notion of a cleaning lady by virtue that I find it degrading to have a fellow human clean my mess. That has NOTHING to do with gender or the like.. #34 I am single because I am a guy that has sensitivity's, passion's, ideals and the like. Many women I have met are merely the shallow creatures they paint men to be. While I am somewhat hard to talk to, women wont even bother to take the effort... while guys mostly do. I just wont tolerate the "kvetching" crap, its BS plain and simple.. I have known girls that just cannot shut up about every ligment of their body hurting. Well hey I had 14 operations and everything hurts till today, just move on and live. I also have known women that cannot shut up about guys trying to molest them yet they are the very epithome of *hore and in my blunt honest opinon are not only asking for their troubles but inviting it with a gold plated invitation! Oh and need I tell you about the women that go bezerk when their advances are rejected? like "how dare you guys reguse our advances!!" As a final note, I am neither bitter nor a women hater etc.. I am just laying out the facts as I see em.

We said nothing about women being unequal, and if women want to be a rabbi in a reform congergation why should I care? But shut up with the whining!!

I wasn't going into that with Elchonon, but if he had to suffer through one of my "assigned" roles, meaning that kitchen business, he'd be crying like a baby. Hubby used to tell me that Webster's should use my cooking as the official definition of "slow agony." I could scare the poor man to death just rattling pots and pans. It was his signal to hit the 'phone and order in or head for the car to haul off for Mexican/Chinese/Pizza Hut or whatever else was at a safe distance. I had told him before we got married that I couldn't cook. He just had no idea what that really meant. Since he thought that "chestnuts roasting on an open fire" sounded romantic and not wanting to crank up the fireplace, one time I loaded up the oven with pounds of chestnuts. When those things went off like firecrackers on steroids, it sounded like WWIII had started. How was I supposed to know that you have to cut slits into their hulls? Then there was the little incident with my trying to boil a dozen eggs in the micro. It did not end well. When I used to invite my kids and their families for Thanksgiving dinner, they always remembered having booked trips to far off places. As it is, they now invite me 2 years ahead of time to their house. I suspect that had to do with somebody's carving a turkey one year and coming across a piece of wire and clumps of paper with all sorts of very strange odds and ends stuck to them. No wonder there wasn't any room for stuffing. Now some people might believe that I do that on purpose to weasel out of cooking, but at the same time, nobody is ever willing to give me a second chance. They keep mumbling about being too young to die. They have no sense of adventure, do not appreciate my speed with that can opener and they're not interested in what all I can do with Ramen noodles, especially the ones under which I don't forget to turn off the stove, while I go and water my garden. What the heck, I had too many pots, and the kitchen needed a new paint job, anyway. Whenever my kids say thanks for something, they always end it with, "God has been truly good. We survived." I could say the same thing, but they are my kids, I reared them and so I have nobody else to blame for the results of that assignment. Maybe their diet has something to do with it :-)

What? You cook? Can we talk? I'm hell on wheels with that iron and vacuum. I promise, too, that whenever it remotely looks like an advance, instead of getting pissed, I will simply and very graciously remind you that I'm a half-breed shiksa without any religion and bring that whole situation to a screeching halt. Should you see a glint in my eye, just call me grandma and ask me to tell you of my seeing the Dead Sea before it was even sick. I'm not in this for romance. I want something decent to eat. If it turns out that your cooking is no better than mine and assuming that I've been ironing out my little heart, while you've been cooking, your crisply-ironed shirts will go flying off the deck into the creek and you can load the dishwasher, yourself. Most of all, I hope you know that I'm joking.

I'm sorry that you have such ideas about women . OK , there are "interested" women , they want to have a secure life , without working . But even a physically handicaped man , can have an interesting relationship with a woman . As for you not wanting to have a lady cleaning your mess , make less mess , and give a woman who wants and needs to work , a possibility to do it . In this case she is the same as a cashier in your super . She too needs to work , but you need her , otherwise you can't buy food . That's how i'm thinking and acting . Give women the respect they [ almost ] all deserve , try to understand them , and treath them as your equals , as Human beings . Don't think that they only have a certain role in this world , that they have to obey their husbands as someone wrote here some time ago . No , they also want to live , they also have great ideas , they also have opinions . Your view at them is deformed , why ? i don't know . But you are wrong , and here i know for sure

I'm not as you are , i won't tell my story here , it's not the place . Why don't you simply say that buying ready made food leaves you much time to do other things ? Here we have some caterers who supply us with not so bad food . Easy , no pots needed , only a good microwave , a good bottle of this red beverage called wine and "bon appetit" . Everyone survives , even if we don't have a cheese platter at the end . This is also not bad [ exept for cholesterol ] : baguettes , butter , a choice of French cheeses , and of course , again this red beverage . Also no pots nor great kitchen abilities needed , and in good company , it's great . Well , dear M. Hartley , if one day you will have enough of telling your stories and stop it , we will miss you sincerely .

I never said I dont view women as equal!!! I said they should shut up and stop complaining about the male species. I can complain from today untillthe day I die about people but what good will it do me? And again and again I just keep being painted as a women basher thereby proving everything I intended to show you.. namely that anyone that they or you think "may" be criticizing them or their actions is automaticaly a sexist! Is everyone who accuses a black guy of stealing a racist ? is everyone who calls a jew cheap anti semitec ? is everyone who lives outside the green line a fanatical right wing extremist ? is everyone living in tel aviv a secular left winger ? Please remove the tin foil hat and blindfolds and see the greater picture. If women want equality they will do what it takes without screaming at everyone that they are racist. When ANYTIME in my life I tried to use any disability to my mother as a excuse to not do something she would scream at me "so find another way to do it! invent a new way!"

I am not a feminist. I am AGAINST many feminist principles because they confuse "equality" with "identity". Of course men and women are different ; physically, emotionally, and , yes, neurologically. BUT NOT INTELLECTUALLY ! And to say that they should not study the very basis of their religion is not silly..it is venal, idiotic, and shows the proponents of this idea to be isolated from reality.

So they have to shut up , stay in their kitchen , in a maternity or sometimes in a synagogue ? They may not complain ? Well let me say to you that religious women have also to complain for the behaviour of their husbands . And they have to do it , they want to live , not to always obey their studying men , who don't contribute anything to the family , exept making babies of course . Well because your mother shouted at you to invent a new way , you want other women not to complain . They should have pity of you and your ideas ? No , it's not because you are handicapped that you are right . sorry Not all the people living on the other side of the green line are extreme religious rightists , you are right . But those living in Hevron are for sure .

I think the answer to this phenomenon is that these women are not interested in the "mitzvos" they are doing but in the publicity they are creating. If they went and learned gemora and put on tefillin in private no one would say a word. But they have to do it in public and then publicize it as well. Publicity of the issue and not the mitzva is the key for them.

As a woman I would never have time to write such a simple minded article...I feel sorry for you, even if you think you are being funny. The truth is, women are leading the professional and cultural world, and men are increasingly unemployed and vapid, clearly giving you time to write this garbage.

We are not refering to women protesting unfair conditions, that was NOT what the article was / is about. I'm not sure if you noticed but femnism has been hijacked by a bunch of loud nut jobs. Who said they cant complain about being unjustly treated ? they however whine and scerech to no end! and THAT is what the article is about. I was implying that they should ignore all the negative statements and look instead to acomplish what they wish. Its in a sense like the state of Israel, everything was acomplished years ago because we did not screech and howel to the world how evil eichman was, we went out and got him! We did not go to the UN screeching about Iraq's nukes.. we bombed em! A woman marries her husband, and yes although you may not agree with different aspects of orthodox lifestyle as I dont agree with some customs myself.. I sure as hell dont agree with secular lifestyles BUT i dont tell you when to sleep with your wife or what to eat in your home!! The harsh reality is that many women WANT their husbands to learn all day and support the family because that is THEIR choice.. I know its hard for you to understand thid after being spoonfed so much anto religious stuff... but this is the open truth and you need only inquire around about this. Orthodox women and men make their own choices, they marry who they wish. While I do not wish to regulate women to the kitchen or the home at all, this is the lifestyle many orthodox women WANT! Calling chareidi men "only good at making baby's" is in fact the VERY heart and soul of SEXISM. You are implying very harshly that its only the men making the baby's AGAINST the women's wishes!! Besides for smacking of pure sexist acusation's, its compketely false! Women want to have the kids probably usualy more than their husband! Being that you do not intergate among the orthodox, you make false assumptions / accusations. As the child of "baalei teshuva" both with college degrees, 9 siblings ke'h.. this is the lifestyle we CHOOSE. My mother chooses to stay at home with the kids because thats what she WANTS!

Are you omniscient? Is that how you know exactly what others' motives are? The sad fact is that there are many people (unfortunately, women as well) who believe that only men are entitled to an opinion and that women "shouldn't make waves." Shrill and bombastic condemnation by anti-women activists serves little purpose and usually backfires. Some historical perspective: A few generations ago, most relgious Jews believed that girls should not get an education, particularly a Jewish one. When the Bais Yaakov schools were established, there was much condemnation by the rabbis. Gradually, however, those schools became an integral part of Jewish life. Nowadays, when most Jewish women have increased freedom in the secular world, limiting their opportunities in the religious world may drive many away.

They marry who they wish ...you wrote . This is a lie . What about the young girls who see their husband for the first time only unther the chuppah ? They want many children ? Are you sure ? they want to live in poverty because their husband don't works ? Listen , i had a Friend , a Jewish women , doctor begalut . She had many ultra othodox women as patients . Well she told me that many were complaining about their life , she was the only who could listen to them , the only to whom they could complain . So they want it , they choose it , as you pretend , that's all "bubbe mases" There are many mothers , not only religious , who stay at home for their kids . I don't like to talk to "people" who are coming with false arguments .

Only recently a rabbi has forbidden religious young women to go to study at high level . Is he fearing that if they see another part of the world , they will become smarter , and leave the orthodox way of life ? or does he think that women's place is in the kitchen , maternity and synagogue ? Some 100 years ago , here in Yeroushalaim , some girls where beginning to learn Hebrew . This made scandals , girls learning "lashon Kodesh" !

sounds like there is nothing left for us to do but bash our heads in the wall.

Come on, girls, since when is the most important thing for a Jew what YOU want? Sometimes halakha feels unfair, and it's not always the halakha that has to change. Imagine if Sarah had said, "forget you, Abe, I'm going to go learn Talmud, bake your own cakes and have your own children" Well behaved women make history all the time, they just don't get the credit they deserve for it. Personally, I'm more concerned with women being respected and appreciated for the work Hashem put us here to do than I am with shirking it for a feeling of being noticed. But even if you don't agree and want to attack me viciously, at least listen to #12 and lighten up a bit! Love ~Ruth