Opinion
The missionary danger
Ya'acov Margi
Published: 27.09.07, 18:16
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1. An American's point of view
Bart Cunningham ,   Amsterdam Holland   (09.27.07)
I have been to Israel and in general liked the place and people, but here’s a legitimate question: Israel views and treats a handful of Christians as a threat because they pose a threat to the nation’s Jewish foundations. Now if it is legitimate to view a handful of Christians as a threat to a nations foundations, traditions and ethnicity, have Russian, Rumanian, Ukrainian, Iraqi, German, Polish anti-Semites not acted equally legitimate when they saw and treated millions of Jews in their midst as a threat to their respective cultures and nations? There are a lot of people who carelessly throw around phrases like Zionism=Nazism and Zionism =racism. They often don’t back it with arguments, and certainly I try t refrain from such cheap shots, but it is becoming harder to deny this obvious link, since current Israelis are effectively applying the same logic which anti-Semites have applied throughout 2000 years of Diaspora history. Please publish this, as I believe this is a legitimate point of view and would love appreciate feedback from you all.
2. Ynet, why do you give...
Ehud ,   TA   (09.27.07)
this ignorant fanatic a stage? Shas are the greatest "missionairies" bribing money from the government in order to "provide service" (bribe) poor citizens into a state of dependency from their institution and perpetauate ignorance and narrow-mindedness fin future generations. What a shame!
3. Jew must not have much faith in their own religion.
Mr. Knowitall ,   Frostbite Falls, MN   (09.27.07)
If anyone doubts the religious intolerance of Israeli Jews towards Christians, reading this article or displaying a cross openly inside of the so-called Israeli democracy were one will be attacked and spit upon should make it very clear that the hatred of Christians by Israelis is second only to their hatred of Muslims. American Christian groups should take note of hostile nature of Israelis towards Christianity and understand that Israel is the enemy of all Christians just as it is the enemy of Islam. Israeli Jews will not even use a + sign in Math due to their hatred of Christianity and its symbols.
4. the more ignorant, the more strident
Larry ,   London   (09.27.07)
bolderdash and randomised slander
5. huh?
bill ,   US   (09.27.07)
Maybe people like me aren't who the author is talking about but I have no reason to want to see anyone exterminated by any means. Would I like Jews to convert to Christianity and follow Christ? Sure. I want EVERYONE to do that..not just Jews. I believe it is the absolute truth..why would I not want another human being to hear and believe THE truth? True Christians are friends of Israel and regardless of weather you convert or not we are still your friends. True Christians are also opposed to all forms of injustice and the war and attacks waged on the Jewish people are uncalled for. They are an injustice. Just as the slaughtering of innocents in Africa. And eastern Europe and North Korea and every other part of the world where injustice exists. My point is even if Jews won't/don't convert it doesn't affect the way Christians feel about them. We want you to survive, thrive and prosper just like we wish this for everyone else.
6. Mr Chairman of Shas
Tracy W   (09.27.07)
If you care for the Jewish people's survival, please withdraw from a government that is planning to destroy Israel through the surrender of sacred Jewish land to the enemy. Jews can handle Christian manipulation. The biggest danger for the survival of Israeli Jews is in the Knesset itself. Do the honorable thing, Mr Chairman, and refuse to be part of this government. Israel need new elections now. The survival of the country is at stake.
7. No Jail...FINE and DEPORTATION without return!
ilana   (09.27.07)
It is good to see SOMEONE is awake and knows the ways of the deceptive missionary! Get them OUT of our Holy Land with no chance of returning. STOP the Christain Embassy Jerusalem activities. They are the core problem!
8. Joshua is OUR birthright too - Shtetl mentality dumb
True Zionist ,   The World   (09.27.07)
Joshua and his ministry is OUR birthright too - a jewish birthright forget the shtetl - forget old europe look at bethlehem and nazareth - and call it ours because it is ours god just made us share and welcome gentiles to the god of israel Joshua never intended the papacy - or its horrors dont confuse the two
9. Jesus said his followers must become Jews in their hearts...
Rivkah   (09.27.07)
It is the Christians who fail in this instruction, not the Jews who are already Jews in their hearts. Jesus did not observe a Sunday Shabbat or pagan based holidays like December 25 which is the pagan festival date of the birth of Tamuz, the son of Cain and Isis. The covenant with Abraham is a valid covenant today for the Jews. The covenant with Jesus is a valid covenant for the Gentiles or Jews as a grafted on branch of the tree of faith of which Jews are already the root. Jews do not want to believe Jesus is equivalent to Abraham and Christians do not want to believe they must become Jews in their hearts to be saved. The Jewish messiah is coming and the Christian messiah has come and is coming again as the Jewish messiah. How sad that missionaries think they must convert Jews from being the root to being a grafted on branch. Most missionaries gain the confidence of people with medical assistance and other charities, but they err if they think a mere human can save anyone. Many are called but few are chosen. Jews who are Jews in their hearts which is the only category of people God saves are chosen by God.
10. Christian Missionaries enticing Hindus in India is sickening
KMR ,   Middle East   (09.27.07)
11. GATS, Israel & missionaries
observer   (09.27.07)
Israel's committed, under the General Agreement on Trade in Services (GATS), to let other competitors have a place in its market. Business is business; haven't you seen the front seat in synagogues sold for 100,000+$.
12. Extremism of all sorts
Juan ,   Spain   (09.27.07)
Ya'acov Margi is obviously a bigoted extremist. He is frightened of the terrible dangers of loving Christian people handing out food to the needy. If he was doing his job right in the Knesset there wouldn't be any needy people in Israel. There is too much of a gap between rich and poor. What an emotive start to the article with talk of pogroms etc. Sometimes I just run out of words to describe articles like this. As for religious freedom - how are the Christians in the Negev being treated?
13. Just what we need, religious policemen
Scott ,   Haifa   (09.27.07)
This is the same kind of libel that you see in the press where the Palestinians defame the Jews. This is the same kind of libel that the Germans did to the Jews. Now the object of the religious parties is to libel the Christians. Writer, stop this distortion of the truth. People have brains and don't need you to be their religious police and brains.
14. Red Herring, Anyone?
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (09.27.07)
Missionaries are not the problem. Our religious problems are internal. Most have to do with our religious leadership, in particular the Chief Rabbinate. By refusing to recognize that 90% of us are not haredim nor will we ever be, they are doing a fantastic job of chasing Jews away from Judaism. We are no longer in the Middle Ages. Obscurantism is not a Jewish tradition as these rabbis believe. We are no longer in the ghettos of Europe. Where are efforts to make conversion easier? Where are efforts to save the children of mixed marriages who are lost to us all over the world? What is this nonsense of not being Zionist when the essence of our faith has always been the return to Zion? Where are efforts to modernize religious education, including secular knowledge? Who needs to worry about missionaries? And of all the hypocrites to bring up this issue, Shas takes the cake - or rather the red herring award. If they are so concerned about Jews, what the hell are they doing in Olmert's coalition? Here is another non-issue for them to rally the faithful, a distraction from real issues. This is nothing but manipulation.
15. Open your eyes ...
Bubba in Oklahoma ,   Oklahoma, USA   (09.27.07)
As the world witnessed a miracle in the re-birth of Israel, the world can now see a second miracle. That being a change in how Christians see Jews and what is the responsibility of the Christian to the Jew. That responsibility is to respect the difference between the path for the Jew to the Almighty and the path for the Christian. Additionally, Christians in the US actively support Israel and will help when needed. When it comes to dealing with Christians who want to help convert, "Just Say No" like most adults do when they are offered something they don't want. Putting people in jail for simply asking you to consider another path ... maybe you need to ask Bin Laden how best to deal with them ... that seems to be ultimately where your thinking will lead.
16. MK Margi
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (09.27.07)
What arrogance and convoluted logic makes anyone say something so inane? If 2.15 Billion Christians really wanted to destroy 14 million Jews as the writer states, exactly how long would that take; one week, two weeks, a month? And if, “Many of the new immigrants arrive with a Jewish background that is not deep, do not understand Hebrew, miss home, and seek humane treatment” is the problem, why doesn’t his party do something about that? He all but admits that new immigrants are not treated humanely and don’t get much support and yet, other than to blame somebody else, he offers nothing but another law to let his bunch off the hook. If my family and I were being ostracized left and right and were starving, I’d accept food from the devil and tell him whatever he wanted to hear. If you want me to listen to you, then don’t deprive me of my basic human dignity. Being human takes precedence over Jewish, Christian, Muslim or whatever. This man openly states that Israel’s treatment of immigrants makes them susceptible to the lure of other religions, and so, instead of fixing the problem at its source, he introduces a law. And if someone “converts” someone by the example of his/her life, how does he propose to apply that law? Will he threaten some decent, Israeli non-Jew with jail time, if he/she doesn’t mend his/her ways and stop being so damn’ decent and god-fearing or what? One minute and according to his own prophets all the ills that befall the Jews is their turning away from their god, but the next minute it's the fault of the Christians. Which is it and how does he explain the destruction of Temple one and two, not to mention a lot of other disasters, when there were no Christians in sight? But as long as you can blame somebody else, you won’t have to take a look at yourself and do something about your own shortcomings. Why bother with that unpleasantness, when it’s so much more convenient and easy to point fingers? I don’t know about yours, but that attitude doesn’t go over with my god, at all. Maybe the world would be a better place, if everybody got off their respective Mt. Sinai’s and showed each other just a little more kindness. As it is, the adherents of most religions - “revealed” or otherwise - resemble each other a little bit too much with regard to hypocrisy and lack of love towards “the other” for my taste. I’ll just stick with believing in and trying to honor ALL THAT IS with my behavior. He needs no man-made trappings, rituals, rules and regulations that seem to be designed more for exclusion on the one hand and control on the other, than to honor either god or man. Last but not least, the old Canaanites and other native peoples of antiquity probably had the same slant on the behavior of his forebears, the ancient Hebrews, as MK Margi has on today’s Christians. The latter’s collection of magic tricks is no different than someone else’s insisting that an almighty god had nothing better to do than to “talk” to the leader of some rag-tag band of escapees from Egypt who couldn’t find his way out of a desert for 40 years or “dictate” some screwed-up version of the universe to an illiterate pedophile, some of the time contradicting himself in both processes. Sorry, but I don't need any of it.
17. IF SO, WILL MK MARGI NEXT ASK FOR THE DEATH PENALTY FOR
David ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (09.27.07)
Anyone that converts. #6 is right, All they are interested is in money from the government and never doing what is needed to prevent Olmert and company from emptying the Shomron of Jews. Besides, the very basic truths of Judaism being that to our children will prevent any kind of conversion, no matter how any christian organization tries. My question is, what is MK Margi really trying to obtain, that anyone that doesn't follow his specific brand of Judaism be imprisoned or ultimately slain?
18. Just Say No
JB   (09.27.07)
The problem, Bubba, is that christian missionaries don't take no for an answer. They keep pestering and pestering and pestering - that is, the ones who have tried to convert me wouldn't take no for an answer. Better they should go back to America and work on helping the poor, the needy, and the lost christians abandoned by their government after Hurricane Katrina. That would be a really christian thing to do, right? Perhaps christians don't realize that their religious imperative to convert others is the most foul, insulting, annoying doctrine for non-christians to have to endure. Gee, thanks for no longer burning, torturing and slaughtering us in the name of your loving god jesus. Now how about leaving us alone?
19. legislation needed
ellen ,   Golan Heights   (09.27.07)
I don't believe the recent rabbinc rulings and concerns with regards to missionary activity in Israel have anything to do with outdated fears of anti-Semitism or the hareidization of the Chief Rabbinate. Nor does it have to do with us not appreciating Christians who stand with Israel. It is not a simple friend or foe issue. This a serious religious matter. In our enthusiasm to embrace our Christian friends, we have turned a blind eye to the rampant missionizing that is taking place in Israel. Strict legislation is called for. I think Benny Elon and the Christian Allies Caucus should make this matter a top concern and priority, rather than deny it. Work with the rabbis and Knesset members on it. Our Christian allies should surely respect our rights and needs to protect our faith. We as Jews have to realize that we can have political and economic alliances without selling our souls. Acting responsibly when working with people of other faiths is a principle of our faith. This is not an all or nothing relationship. One can be a proud Jew, adhere to the halacha and welcome friends of other faiths to stand with us.
20. Sounds like he is talking about Chabad!
herzl ,   Jerusalem   (09.27.07)
21. if this article is true, so are the "protocols"
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (09.27.07)
it's all a plot by the devious and rich mind-controllers!!! everyone is powerless against them and their schemes!!!
22. Mr.Knowitall
Ann   (09.27.07)
Most of the Jews I have spoken to in Israel are very greatful for the support Christians in America have given to them and have been very kind and decent to me and my family when we visited. I never saw or witnessed one incident of antiChristian prejudice. Your just another meanspirted antisemitic person who is using this poor man's fears to play upon gullible people's prejudices.
23. The heart has its reasons that reason cannot know
eric ,   EU   (09.27.07)
The great scientist Blaise Pascal wrote once: "As rational as I like to pretend I am, I know that I am not ruled by reason. Looking back I recognize that many of my choices were choices of passion, neither governed by logic nor common sense. Many of these were good choices, though not all of them were. But taking stock of my life so far, I do not wish I had been more logical. I do sometimes wish I had been more passionate." In the same way that reason and passion work together and not against each other, so should judaism and christianism try to work together. Try to meditate on that.
24. To Mr. Knowitall , + + + +
Jake   (09.27.07)
There , + signs for you. That story about Israeli keyboards and math books not having the + sign is a big lie, and you know too, Mr. Knowitall. Why don't you tell everyone here what is the plan of Islam for the Christians after all the Jews are killed. The first thing they will do is "break all the crosses". Go on, little boy, don't forget to tell about the 80 year old Christian Gaza woman that was beaten by the Islamist goons. Go one, little boy, lie a little a more. You live a Lie.
25. #8 "True Zionist"
ER ,   Canada   (09.27.07)
You Xians have no more claim to the Land of Israel than do the worshipers of Baal Peor. So just drop it!
26. WOW! Just because you are paranoid?
Claudia ,   Tampa USA   (09.27.07)
Doesn't mean they are not out to get you!!! Goodness, just because this Christian country gives billions and Christian citizens individually give millions to support Israel is certainly no reason to think the rabbinate or like minded Jews is going to accept the hand of friendship. Nor is that a requirement of the Christians that extend it. But if Israel wants to preserve the charade of democracy you better leave legislation behind for extremists like Muslims that have those laws. I am wondering how one tells apart the Hareidi rabbi from the radical Imam? Why are the rabbi's and their followers so fearful of Christians? Seems to me if they were secure in their faith this would not be a problem.
27. And the witch Madonna is an honored guest!
Daniel Freeman ,   SF Babylon   (09.27.07)
What about Marxist Pogroms? Marx the "jew" Hitler was a pagan. What of the leftist antizionist "jews" How many in Israel are atheist? Dont confuse gentiles with christians!
28. Mooslim Invasion
Eliyahoo Riverah ,   Sodom & Egpyt   (09.27.07)
Khen and Shalom YNET, Ameyn. The season of Ahavah is ovah and finished. It is the autumn of judgment and the Church in Amerikah and abroad is going to have a severe wake-up call, like a shofar alarm call, for instigating the removal of Hudyos from Judea and Samaria and - G-d-forbid - giving away East Jerusalem: NO! There may be aliens ingrafted into the Olive Tree of Israel, but not every Christian is koshah to enter into the Promised Land (aka the generation before Yehoshua's army generation). The greatest danger to the existence of Israel is the cancer of Mooslims in eretz. And just like cancer, the Mooslim agenda must be removed. Besides, at this point, I'd consider the Church worthy for Levitical purposes only, thus far. Their lack of knowledge of daily life in Israel is dismal. Eliyahoo P-S- I'd take a closer look at the S.E. portion of the Temple Mt for the glory.
29. missionaries in Mexico who try to convert people are subject
Rivkah   (09.27.07)
to jail time unless they have a permit. In Greece, proslytizing is also against the law if anyone is trying to subvert the Greek Orthodox Church faith. Many Jews in Israel tried to get me to say I believe Jesus Christ is God in their fear I might be a Christian, but I refused to enter that sort of conversation, telling them I seek to convert no one to any religion. If an Israeli wanted a bible and did not have one and told me so, I would buy one for him/her that is the Old Testament only since that is the faith of Israel. In Greece, I would give someone who asked if I ever went there, a Greek Orthodox Bible. God chooses who his people will be. He chose a Syrian General named Naaman who had to go to the house of Rimon to worship to keep his job: but he went to heaven after he died because he was a Jew in his heart after meeting Elijah and being chosen by God. I cannot change my belief in Jesus, but I do not tell Jews to think as I do or to convert. It is the place of Christians to convert to being Jews in their hearts to be real Christians, something few are willing to do.
30. JEWISH CANNOT SPREAD THEIR FAITH
Ariel ,   Tel Aviv   (09.27.07)
because it is sectary and racial. Christianism at least is open to everybody and not dependant on blood or etnicity. Good created all the humans, not only a few a them!
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