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Rice: No timetable for final status accord
Yitzhak Benhorin
Published: 16.10.07, 10:15
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28 Talkbacks for this article
1. Who is asking timetable? Certainly, not Palestinians!!
KMR ,   Middle East   (10.16.07)
2. This is diplomatic double-talk ...
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (10.16.07)
Realistic: means no one agrees. No timetable: means they will never agree. This is just the beginning: means nothing has been achieved. Might be delayed: means going worse than expected. No formal invitations: means no one wants to participate. Don't need to go too far: means we don't expect any results. Document doesn't deal with specifics: means that as soon as we mention anything, talks will break down. Momentum: means they're stuck before they got started. This conference has failed before it started. She can't admit publically that it was a bad idea nor can she just say it's hopeless, there is no solution. The US has made a big mess in Iraq, Afghanistan is not going well, nothing has worked with Iran & some decision must be made - basically, this administration has very few successes to it's credit. It was incredibly bad judgement to get involved in the Israeli-Palestinian problem - but pressure from supposed Arab allies like Saudi Arabia, the useless UN, & the appeasers in the EU pushed them into another failed effort. Much of the blame goes to our gov't. as well - by not resisting American involvement in private but instead trying to harness the peace process to rescue a failed PM, we are also at fault. We have placed the American president in an embarrassing position - a garanteed failure. Olmert & his idiot cronies out-manoeuvered themselves. We have irreconcilable differences with the Palestinians. There is no middle ground, no fair compromise. Either we win or they win. No matter what happens at Annapolis, this conflict will soon intensify.
3. #2
Kareem ,   Egypt   (10.16.07)
U can't bite the hand that feeds you...so live with it! The US made Israel what it is today, resisting pressure from the US is no option for you
4. Abbas asking for the moon.....Why ?
Nora ,   Tel Aviv   (10.16.07)
(End)
5. I told Rice: so, let's delay or cancel it untill we finish
Olmert ,   (formerly Yehud)   (10.16.07)
with the perisoners' swap. You see I'm doing my best in the interest of the Jewish people.
6. #3 but, he can bite the hand that feeded him
(10.16.07)
you will hear know the loud cry; anti-semitism.
7. " no need " ?
AVROHOM BILGREI ,   ZION   (10.16.07)
THE QUINTESSENTISENTIAL "HAS TO , GOT TO , NEED TO , MUST" PUNDIT OF THE IMPERITIVE HAS LOST HER WILL ? SEC'T OF STATE OR P---Y OF COMPLIANCE ? I HOPE SHE HASN'T LOST HER WILL , SHE'LL BE MORE VALUABLE AS WORM FOOD !
8. #2 Terry, very good translation
Howard K ,   NYC   (10.16.07)
We should also add that the US miscalculated. Bush thought that by controlling Olmert he would get to advance his plans. Not so easy... There are too strong feelings in Israel about Jerusalem. And as for the rest, Judea and Samaria and Golan, maybe Israelis were willing to let go (wrong idea). But not Jerusalem. And the Arabs won't give up Jerusalem either, so there we have it, a very predictable standstill. Condi, with all her diplomas and studies wasn't able to figure that one out. Poor Bush can barely find his way around the White House. Another point: this Roadmap has raised Arab expectatons and in exchange for the former status quo before Bush's meddling, now Israel has to face a new intifada. Thanks Bush! He'll leave Israel not only without a solution but with increased violence and a nuclear Iran. Great legacy.
9. it more then just that terry she says .....
jack bauer ,   joshua 11:19-20   (10.16.07)
quote - "I am not certain that a timetable that says we have to complete X by Y time is where we want to go," Rice told reporters what thet means is that she knows full well that the palis cannot, and will not deliver on anything they agree to. Even if they could, they wont. And based on that "the final solution" cannot be scrapped just because one party doesnt want it to happen! What kind of negotiations do not require mutual agreement? One that you get railroaded into. After rereading genesis I found that in chapter 17 it clearly states that there shall be an everlasting covenant with the Israelites. It also give them a perpetual holding of the land. Not the rights to carve it up and give it away, a perpetual holding! Those who have the blessings of God, no man can curse.
10. peace conference
Richard ,   London UK   (10.16.07)
I thought this might be of interest. John Dugard, the UN's special rapporteur on the rights of the Palestinians. ''Every time I visit, the situation seems to have worsened," the retired South African law professor said in a Radio interview. "This time, I was very struck by the sense of hopelessness among the Palestinian people." Mr Dugard attributed this to "the crushing effect of human rights violations", and to Israeli restrictions on Palestinians' freedom of movement. Israel did face a security threat but "its response is very disproportionate". He said the purpose of some of the hundreds of Israeli checkpoints or barriers in the West Bank was to break it up "into a number of cantons and make the life of Palestinians as miserable as possible". So let the peace conference proceed, lets' see if the politicians can help both people but expecially the beleagured Palestinians.
11. #3...and Egypt is not bankrupt because...
Michael Durbin ,   Hong Kong, China   (10.16.07)
Who has the last laugh. Check how the Egyptian government balances its budget...how many billions a year from the U.S of A.. Well, you always have the choice of returning to the loving arms of Soviet Russia...that did you a lot of good the first time around. They have a bit of money at the moment from oil...better go for it before the kleptocracy there funnels it all away...
12. #9 Jack - Re: Joshua.
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (10.16.07)
I'm not a religious guy but I greatly respect the words of our Torah - it often contains excellent advice. I do not seem to recall Moses telling Joshua to make peace with the Canaanites nor offer them concessions. I think he gave more realistic advice & that advice proved it's wisdom because it succeeded. Leaving aside questions as to exactly how accurate the narrative is historically, it's still good advice today.
13. #10 Richard in London, read this
Jake T ,   Alaska   (10.16.07)
(IsraelNN.com) Many Arabs in Shechem are worse off than before the Palestinian Authority (PA) took over, according to a report from the Economist magazine. While the Arabs hate Israel, they are no fonder of their own rulers. It quoted one woman as saying that during Ramadan, she fasted "in order to work up more anger at the Israeli occupation" but then spent "the rest of the day venting spleen in equal measure at racist Israelis, hypocritical Muslims, backward Arabs and the whole stinking world in general." A cardboard packaging company was described as working at 40 percent pre-Intifada capacity. The owner, looking at nearby Jewish communities, told the Economist reporter that the Jewish residents "are here to stay. It's very difficult to tell them to go back to the 1967 border; that's become history now.” The Economist also reported that two terrorists recently freed by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert were arrested by the Palestinian Authority (PA) and one was tortured in a way that was "worse than the Israelis." http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/134720 We hear repeatedly of Arab on Arab violence, but that does not make headlines, does it? That does not fall under the category of human rights violations, so we don't hear the UN even mentioning such things.
14. Timetable for U.S. to butt out
Marcel ,   Florida   (10.16.07)
It's time for the U.S. to admit they are incapable of being a fair and balanced peace broker and pul up stakes and leave Israel to deal with their terrorist problem. The phony U.S. peace agenda is seen as rewarding Islamic terrorism at Israel's expense and it must stop.
15. Bush, is this how you fight terror? You give them a state?
(10.16.07)
16. Rice, have you heard of Darfur?
Jake T ,   Alaska   (10.16.07)
That would be a nice legacy for your boss and yourself: bring peace to Darfur. Maybe even create a separate state for the people of Darfur. Why not? Because the Chinese wouldn't like it? Or the Russians? Or the other Muslims states? Anyway, why bother, it's only a genocide. Well, then how much easier it is to pick on the Jews because they have no friends anywhere. And be a bully about it. Nobody will come to their defense. They even have their own crop of anti-Israel Jews to support your demands. Except... this time you pushed your luck, Condi. It ain't gonna happen.
17. #13
Richard ,   London UK   (10.16.07)
So are you saying that the Palestinians are not getting a hard time and that it is the fault of the Arabs that they are suffering? I don't doubt that there are ignorant and cruel Palestinian leaders and militants but the major difference is that these people are not using the entire apparatus of a modern state to subjugate an entire group of people.
18. #17 - What to you call Gaza?
Jake T ,   Alaska   (10.16.07)
So your objection to abuse depends on who inflicts the abuse. If it is a democracy, it is wrong. If it is Hamas or Fatah who does it, then they are excused. Gaza is in control of its police. So is Fatah. Your attitude is the same as Amnesty International's official policy. They don't criticize underdeveloped countries because they apparently don't know any better. But Israel, absolutely. Because it is democratic and has principles to uphold. The other countries or terrorists don't have any principles to uphold, so we should not expect much from them, poor things. This is extremely flawed thinking. Everyone is entitled to human rights and criticism of violations should be applied in an evenhanded manner. We should not lower our expectations based on the technological or political development of the perpetrators.
19. What a mug shot
Lior ,   London   (10.16.07)
You can't blame Ynet for the picture of Ms Rice, because this time she really is pulling that school marm face. What a hatchet of an expression. I mean, anyone with a Jewish mother has experienced a look like that - and survived to tell the tale. I'm not so sure your average Arab's going to be too keen to sit down opposite that... Perhaps Ms Rice needs to employ a personal body language coach, because if looks could kill, Abu Mazen would already be six foot under, pushing up the daisies...
20. #18
Richard ,   London UK   (10.16.07)
Gaza is what it is because of the policies of Israel. Gaza has been turned into an open prison. The borders, sea and air space is controlled by Israel. That is a nightmare of which no other population in the world has ever experienced. I would not criticise the Palestinains because they are the victims. And I am not talking about Hamas or Islamic Jihad I am talking about Palestinains, people with families and wishes just like Israelis. The violations that are comiited by Hamas are real but they are as a tiny fraction of the violations committed by Israel. As I often point out, prior to the 1940s there was no Hamas or Jihadists in Palestine. And where are the Palestinain tanks and bulldosers knocking down Israeli houses? Where are the Palestinian F16s firing missiles into built up areas? Where are the the Palestinian army divisions infiltrating Israel and assasinating people? Where are the Palestinian road blocks? Where are the illegal Palestinain settlements in Israel? Where is the Palestinain concrete wall built around entire communities? A WALL for flips sake. This is what groups like Amnesty and Human Rights Watch protest against. This is what the UN and the EU (and maybe at last the US) see as been a violation. This is what all the boycotters and protestors and human rights groups feel is an injustice. The deliberate and disproportionate use of force agaisnt an entire people.
21. #20
Jake T ,   Alaska   (10.16.07)
Nice speech. You still do not answer properly the philosophical question at the very root of this problem: double standards for criticism. And you put all the blame on the Jews. "I would not criticise the Palestinians because they are the victims", you write. Really? The Jewish pioneers did not have the military capabilities they have now, and still they were always attacked. If you read about WW2, you'll see how the Arabs were in cahoots with the Nazis to eliminate all the European Jews so that none would emigrate to their ancestral land. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3248081,00.html Then there's the issue of expulsion of Jews from Arab lands, thousands of refugees who haven't been compensated yet. And to make the story short, the war of Arabs against the Jews has never stopped. It has been all-out-war or a war of terror against Jewish civilians. Do I need to remind you of the thousands killed by Arabs, many of them women and children? So, please take a pause before throwing accusations at the Jews and saying the Palestinians are the victims. The Jews only try to defend themselves. Sometimes things don't go well, but the IDF goes out of its way, sometimes with enormous risks to its own troops, in order to avoid civilian casualties among a population that works hand in hand with the terrorists. The bad guys don't wear uniforms over there. Sometimes they even wear burkas. Sometimes they are brainwashed kids of 12. About Gaza being a prison, I'll have to repeat what many have said already. The Jews withdrew, they left greenhouses, they left Gazans to manage their own affairs. Gazans could have chosen to build up their community, to create jobs, to get along with the Jews and become a successful place to visit on the Mediterranean. The Arab situation is self inflicted, I'm sorry to say this to you because it shatters your long held beliefs in Palestinian victimhood. Roadblocks, fence, increased security, they are all as defense measures caused by terror. They were not there until terror killed thousands of Jews. Now, turn your eyes for a moment to Jordan. It expelled the Palestinians. Look at Lebanon. The army put down the rebellion in the refugee camps with all the ruthlessness it required. Doesn't that make you wonder? Is it all Israel's fault? Or is there something more fundamental in Palestinian victimhood and violence that causes this self-inflicted tragedy? I've already gone on too long here, so I'll just mention one more item that defines the moral quality of both peoples. The treatment of its children. When a society tells its little ones that it's OK to kill at a young age, you're not building a society of respect for life and higher values. You saw it in Gaza, how that brutality inculcated on those children was used against their own brothers. You can't put all the blame on the Jews. Make an effort, take off your blinders and see that there are serious problems in Palestinian society that come from within. You dismiss human rights violations by Palestinians as being in small scale. Right. And why is that? Because they are not a state yet. Once they become a state, the'll perpetrate acts in a big scale. They will arm themselves with chemical weapons, they'll attack not just Sderot but all over Israel. Small scale, indeed, just because the Jews don't let it get out of hand, not because of any ethical restraint on the part of the Arabs. And one last thought. What about Egypt? Gaza has a border with Egypt. Why aren't the Egyptians helping the ordinary Palestinian people instead of allowing the smuggling of weapons for even more carnage in the future.
22. #21
Richard ,   London UK   (10.16.07)
Nice speech. let me tell you something - and this is the honest truth. I was teaching in an orthodox jewish school in London recently (incidently no women permitted) and I was chatting with the kids. They were about ten years old. I asked them what they wanted to be when they grew up. Most of them said they wanted to join the IDF. Why, I asked. Because I want to kill arabs. Why? because they all have nuclear weapons. That was in London so I reckon the indoctrinated hatred of Arabs is ratcheted up even more so in Israel. There are many points in your polemic that can be argued against but I stand by the opinion and that of the majority of the world's governments and NGOs; that Isreal is collectively punishing the entire Palestinain people and illegally settling on Palestinain land. There is no justification for building a wall around a whole territory,. This has never been done in the history of the world. Your weak platitudes that the poor, tree hugging IDF are trying so hard not to hurt anyone as they fire air to ground missiles and drive their tanks and bulldosers over houses is risible. Your assumption that 'The Arab situation is self inflicted' is pure racism and no further removed than the nazis saying that the slav deserves his label of untermenschen. You need to look beyond your prejudice. Far beyond. 'Once they become a state, the'll perpetrate acts in a big scale' Will they really? So Israel is doing us all a favour is it? You still haven't addressed the fact that prior to 1946 there was no Hamas or Hizbollah. Now why is that?
23. November is considered a bad luck month for Arabs
Mark ,   USA   (10.16.07)
Maybe they all prefer a postponement for that reason.
24. # 21 - Jake
Lior ,   London   (10.16.07)
Jake, you are absolutely correct here when you talk about the Arab expulsion of their Jewish populations - and thank you for reminding us of this oft-forgotten piece of history. Only it wasn't "thousands" Jake, it was hundreds of thousands - not far short, in fact, of a million. Arab - and Islamist - complicity in the Holocaust, shared ideas with Nazi "philosophy", and the expulsion of the Jews post-Holocaust from Arab lands and the confiscation of their wealth, are all factors that have been conveniently over-looked by ALL historians in the story of the refounding of the Jewish homeland. I must also say this: The story of the Sephardi and Mizrachi experience of immigration to Israel has also been deeply coloured by Ashkenazi disinterest in the role of the Arab nations in their complicity with the Holocaust. And this ambivalence has, in turn, deeply affected the "peace process". Had the Nazis won the war, the Holocaust would have continued in North Africa and the rest of the Middle East - and Israel forgets this at her peril. Now, I wonder what bigoted ignorance Richard will start flouncing before the world in response to this piece of forgotten history, for all and sundry to read...
25. US Breaks Laws Against RACISM to DESTROY Jews' HUMAN RIGHTS
Linda Rivera ,   New York   (10.17.07)
22 HUGE Arab countries possessing great oil wealth cover over six million square miles, over ten percent of the land surface of earth. TINY Israel only one tenth of one percent of the Middle East. America is breaking U.S. laws which make it illegal to discriminate based on race or religion. Demanding forcible removal of Jews from the Jewish homeland based on race-Jews and RELIGION-JUDAISM. 10,000 Gaza Jews were punished for not being Muslim, rendered jobless and homeless-financially obligated to pay mortgages on their homes Israel destroyed. It TOOK the GLOBAL VILLAGE to RAISE THESE TERRORISTS. Jewish greenhouses and farms built on land that NEVER belonged to Arabs were seized by the IDF for Israel's implacable enemies, the Palestinian Authority terrorist organization. Consumed with intense hate for Israel's G-D, Muslim mobs desecrated and destroyed the synagogues where Jews had praised and honored Master of the Universe. The jihad is against the Holy One. Does the U.S. government plan to eliminate laws making it illegal to discriminate based on race or religion? Or, does the U.S. government plan to add a clause stating, The LAW DOES NOT APPLY to JEWS? In 1922, Britain illegally gave Muslims 80% of JEWISH Palestine-the area became Jordan, giving Muslims an ARAB Palestinian State on JEWISH land. It was ethnically cleansed of Jews. Racist Jew-haters US/EU, demand ruthless, forcible expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Jews from Judea, Samaria and Jerusalem DESTROYING Israel's security and rendering Jews jobless and homeless. US/EU/UN ruthless ideology that demands cruel religious cleansing of innocents for not being Muslim must STOP! Oslo-Road Map destroyed the human rights of Christians who suffer horrific persecution under brutal occupation of PA/PLO: FrontPageMagazine.com | September 13, 2005 'Christianity Dying In Its Birthplace' By Daniel Pipes “Almost every day – I repeat, almost every day – our communities are harassed by the Islamic extremists in these regions,” Pizzaballa says. “And if it’s not the members of Hamas or Islamic Jihad, there are clashes with … the Palestinian Authority.” In addition to the Islamists, a “Muslim land mafia” is said to operate with PA complicity. It threatens Christian land and house owners, often succeeding to compel them to abandon their properties. The campaign of persecution has succeeded...Bethlehem and Nazareth, historic Christian towns for nearly two millennia, are now primarily Muslim. In 1922, Christians outnumbered Muslims in Jerusalem; today, Christians amount to a mere 2 percent of that city’s population." http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=19453 This massive ATTACK on Judaism and Christianity by the US/EU has ominous implications for every Jew and Christian on earth. There must be NO surrender of any more Jewish land to global Islam-the planned second Holocaust must be stopped! The planned second Holocaust extends far beyond Israel: In 2,000, leaflets were distributed in major British cities that included slogans: "The final hour will not come until the Muslims kill the Jews." Khomeini: “Islam says: Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to paradise, which can be opened only for holy warriors! There are hundreds of other [Koranic] psalms and hadiths urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all that mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.” “Islam grew with blood . . . . The great prophet of Islam in one hand carried the Koran and in the other a sword . . . . Islam is a religion of blood for the infidels but a religion of guidance for other people.” —Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.
26. #25 Linda - Thank you
Jake T ,   Alaska   (10.17.07)
Thank you for your indefatigable campaign to spread the truth.
27. #24 Lior
Jake T ,   Alaska   (10.17.07)
I stand corrected on the number of Jewish refugees from Arab countries. And you make fine observations regarding the disinterest of the Ashkenazi on the Nazi-Arab collaboration. One can only speculate on the reason behind it. Perhaps they did not want to increase Arab hostility by bringing up the issue. Or perhaps they wanted to leave that past behind. I don't know. But why it isn't talked about today, that's even more disconcerting, considering the way Israelis are so vilified while Arabs are seen as victims. There's an irony, though, in Arabs and Slavs professing sympathies with neo-Nazis. According to Nazi ideology, Slavs and Arabs were looked upon as slave labor. But there you have individuals from those races proudly expressing support for Nazi ideas. Go figure it. Lior, aside from Arab hostility, there are many issues within Israeli society, and I should say within the Diaspora as well, that are extremely hard for me to understand. When we argue with Arabs, we can more or less understand their motivations, their tactics, their aims. We can present arguments, show historical facts, etc. What is beyond me is the anti-Israel and anti-Judaism attitudes of some individual Jews. Not out of ignorance, for many of them belong to the intelligentsia. Not out of a particular warped mind, for they are otherwise normal people. But there they are, arguing in favor of human rights and land concessions for those who have it in their charter to drive the Jews into the sea. That's something that still baffles me and probably will never understand.
28. #22 Richard
Jake T ,   Alaska   (10.17.07)
I see that you won't get facts get in your way. So instead of more discussions, please read this item on Israel National News. No comments necessary. Gaza Family Attacked After Arguing with Hamas (IsraelNN.com) According to the Bethlehem-based Maan news agency, an Arab family living in Gaza was attacked on Monday after arguing with Hamas terrorists. The family had refused to allow the terrorists to paint pro-Hamas slogans on the walls of their house. Several hours later, the house was attacked by unidentified terrorists, who threw two grenades at the building. While the house was damaged, none of the residents were hurt. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/134826 Terrorists? Isn't Hamas in charge of the government there?
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