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Lieberman demands population exchange
Ronny Sofer
Published: 28.10.07, 07:30
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30 Talkbacks for this article
1. Now Lieberman is speaking
Nora ,   Tel Aviv   (10.28.07)
like Liebermen should. Question: Will he act accordingly?
2. Duh!
Mark ,   USA   (10.28.07)
There can be no temple re-built without securing the "holy basin". I wonder if the muslim community understands this?
3. Thank G-d a plan for Israel
Petra ,   usa   (10.28.07)
This is a good paln for Israel. I hope and pray it is adopted into law.
4. Lieberman has sold out!
Avrham ,   NYC   (10.28.07)
5. A step in the right direction.
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (10.28.07)
6. Xenophobistan Intolerable. Starting Point for Negotiations?
Paqid (16) Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (10.28.07)
Lieberman's plan is the best so far presented to the public; but is still not enough. First, in practice this seems to unavoidably be merely a starting point for negotiations while these need to be red lines that cannot be compromised. So why is only one point "non-negotiable"??? Second, Israel cannot survive in a sea of xenophobic neighbors. Even though living in Gaza under Arab rule seems unthinkable, we know that even Shimshon and Dawid ha-Melekh did so for a short while. In years to come, we are choosing now whether Arab-ruled areas will be like other countries in which Jews are free to set up a business, a second home or even live or whether we're enabling another misojudaic, Jew-free, Saudi-Arabia and Mecca next-door. It is intolerable for Saudi-Arabia and Mecca to be misojudaic and Jew-free, certainly we cannot agree to such a next-door neighbor. That can only result in the same misojudaic Wahhabi Madrassas, raising children to kill Jews, that we see in, and sponsored by, Saudi-Arabia and Mecca. Intolerable. PS: the most popular Israeli Jewish newspaper not publishing candlelighting times on Erev Shabbat and Erev Khag in its on-line counterpart is a disservice to Jewish readers and a disgrace to Israel. Even ha-Aretz publishes candlelighting times. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il
7. Some questions
Canadian Otter   (10.28.07)
1) The situation with the territories is forty years old now. So why are Israeli leaders just beginning to formulate their positions with respect to the most important issue for the future of the country? Some leaders seem to be improvising, others are not even heard from very much. 2) Why have Israeli leaders been so passive in the face of the enormous concessions that the present government is ready to make? The details have been floating around for months. Why didn't they state their opposition right at the start? By not setting limits for Olmert, Arab high expectations may well result in another intifada. 3) What does Israel stand to gain from any of the concessions that have been mentioned so far. Why would a country engage in discussions towards major sacrifices when there’s nothing to be gained in exchage? To say nothing of the fact that there is no credible leadership on the Arab side or any proof whatsoever that they can be relied on to fulfill even the most basic expectations.
8. When Rabbi Meir Kahana zt"l Hy"d said it, he was ousted
Yitzchak ,   Tel Aviv   (10.28.07)
from Knesset. Hopefully now the Israelis will finally come to their senses. After all, what the Right Normal people understand without difficulty straight away, can take those dumb Leftists years and years to grasp. The sad part is, that the government of Israel and the judges of Israel are from the latter group.
9. 80% Jewish majority, for how long?
Judah ,   Golan Heights,ISRAEL   (10.28.07)
Even though there are some good points to this plan, our demographic situation will only be temporarily improved. The Bedoiuns in the Negev are doubling every 7 years. Two weeks ago ynet had an article about a Bedouin man with 57 children. So if Lieberman is serious about wanting a Jewish majority then he and the Knesset should be making sure that the poilce enforce laws against polygamy.
10. Left wing - why are you so stupid?
A Jew and a settler ,   Shilo Israel   (10.28.07)
Do you honestly beleive that the moment I leave my home in the Shomron (which has more historical claim for Jews than anyone else) that you will get your 'peace now'. When the War of Independence broke out due to Arabs not accepting Jews in 1947 lines, do you honestly delude yourselves that somehow moving back to the 1947 status quo will magically work now? The bottom line is where ever you look in the world Jews are not really at home without a movement against our people. If we don't get it right here we lose, period! The left wing used to be courageous and unafraid to settle our Jewish Zionist land. You are not even fit to walk in their shadows. Stand up with your Jewish brothers. Try building the Jewish dream together with your people, rather than trying to destroy it for a desperate attempt at an illusive peace. If you haven't learnt by now that the only partner for peace is through standing strong with your brothers, then you are destined to repeat the mistakes of history...big time!
11. #9 Demographics?
Howard K ,   NYC   (10.28.07)
There are plans to deal with that in a positive, peaceful way, by giving the PA Arabs Jordanian citizenship. Check out MK Benny Elon's proposal in his Hebrew and English website http://www.hayozma.org/
12. He forgot several demands
Mike ,   Jerusalem   (10.28.07)
#1 The pardon and release of Jonathan Pollard #2 The transfer of Coondaleeza Rice from the State Department to Interior Department let her screw up the USA not Israel #3 A total disengagement from all "Palestinians" IOW no "Palestinian" may enter Israel under any circumstances nor shall Israel supply them with water, electricity nor any other essential goods, let them fend for themselves!
13. Lieberman's proposals
A.Chinovich ,   Israel   (10.28.07)
Mr.Lieberman's strategy directed at getting rid of Arab populated territories is not popular in the world. His motherland, Moldova, is the first example. Other ones are Georgia with Abkhasia, Turkey with Kurdistan, Russia with Chechnya. Normal countries do not tend to self-destruction. It's a privilege of Israelis who have namaged to elect that Seim of Liquidators, with Mr.Lieberman as the wisest.
14. 11, Howard K., please reread my email
Judah ,   Golan Heights,ISRAEL   (10.28.07)
I was saying that even if we find a solution to the Arabs in Judea and Samaria we still have a demographic problem on our hands due to the doubling of the Bedouin population every 7 years.
15. How come A Lieberman and Benny Elon
Khalil Abo Mohammad ,   Ein Karem, Al Qud   (10.28.07)
Who are bothe not natives of this land and just imegrated from Russia and USA are in any sort of a position to suggest any solution. This is against Logic, Religion and even Economic and social affairs. This is simellar to G W Bush deccision to occupy Iraq and force Democracy and like newcon trying forcing GOD TO RESEND JUSSES BACK TO US NOW AND NOT WHEN GOD SEES FIT.
16. #14 Judah - demographics
Howard K   (10.28.07)
I understand the problem of the Bedouin and other Arabs. Even if the PA Arabs were not included in Israel, you still have your own Arab citizens. I don't know how to put this delicately, but the fact is that much of the Arab population does not want to be Israeli. See related reports today. You cannot afford to be overrun by a hostile population. Something will have to be done in the future that will benefit both populations. The Benny Elon plan is for the PA Arabs, but you understand that things could be modified if there was a war and the Arab population with Israeli citizenship were to side with the enemy..... Your suggestion about outlawing polygamy is excellent and overdue. A modern country can set some standards in this regard. You could also stop the family reunification business. Establish foolproof IDs for the population, to combat infiltration. Do something about the almost 50,000 abortions that take place every year. Help the women financially and in every possible way so they can carry their babies to term and either keep them or put them up for adoption. Provide incentives for Jewish families to have more babies. And support Judaism. The present policy of de-Judeizing Israel is producing youth that are not connected to the land, that may prefer to emigrate, that may intermarry with Arabs. Sorry about meddling in issues about which I don't have first hand experience, but it seems to me that you Israelis have been a bit casual about protecting the Jewish nature of the country. When you really get down to numbers, in addition to the Arabs you've got the pro-Arab Left, the seculars, the non-Jews and the apathetic. That makes the really committed patriots a rather small minority. I find that rather worrisome.
17. Arab leadership sucks, but most citizens OK
Ilan ,   Ariel   (10.28.07)
Call me naive, but I think that Israeli Arabs suffer from a terrible leadership. Given more goodwill on both sides they will be excellent citizens. Yes, they need to join the IDF, but they also need 100% equal opportunity to advance in all areas of Israeli society. Lieberman's plans are not feasible, nor in the spirit of a democracy.
18. I have a better plan: let us keep our land! All of it.
Steve ,   US   (10.28.07)
Export all the Palestinian Arabs out of Israel. Jews will help fund the process, buy up property and homes, etc. It will be far more humane than what the Arabs did to their many hundreds of thousands of Jewish guests, expelled penniless following the 1948 Arab war against the Jews. Ship this traitorous cabinet minister, Avigdor Lieberman, back to Russia.
19. #1, An unstable man in a position of power
Yoni ,   Nahariya   (10.28.07)
Lieberman vacillates between right and left ideas embracing each one anew when it is expedient. I see no defining principled stance here, just pandering. He turns his back on his constituents in some of the most audacious circumstances then returns to his conservative ideology when his popularity drops. Not a trustworthy human, IMHO.
20. dreams
Hilda ,   US   (10.28.07)
I like the way you think #12 Mike. If the US can consider a Judenrein country of Palestine and support Judenrein contries like Jordan and Saudi Arabia etc. what is so wrong with an Arab rein country of Israel? If no Arabs are alowed to live there can Israel continue to be accused of Apartheid? The aformentioned countries are not accused . Stop all the hypocrisy. Recognize Israel as the Jewish nation it was meant to be and united Jerusalem as its capital.
21. To #15; Benny Elon was born in Jerusalem
Adam ,   Jerusalem, ISRAEL   (10.28.07)
22. 'holy basin' in ?
observer   (10.28.07)
not all what you wish you can get; spoiled boy!
23. 18
Igor ,   Munich, Germany   (10.28.07)
why not building up concenctration camps and revive Hitler?
24. THANK HEAVEN LIEBERMAN IS A WELL KNOWN POLITICAL NUT CASE...
stude ham   (10.28.07)
otherwise he would cause world war 3.... btw... here's hoping he leaves the government over its failure to adopt his insane proposal. olmert must be overthrown before it's too late.
25. #24 - I like your dry humor ! Thank you!
redmiike ,   tel aviv and london   (10.28.07)
We know that Lieberman just put the brakes on a weak Olmert and prevented him from making even more stupid mistakes. Not everyone will understand your humor but many will and thanks for bringing a smile to many faces - Mike
26. He has my vote
Aharon   (10.28.07)
I know who I'll be voting for.
27. #15 - not a well thought out post
redmiike ,   tel aviv and london   (10.28.07)
According to the original mandate the nomads in the area would live in Jordan which was pretty much established for that purpose and the establishment of Israel would enable Jews to their historic homeland. Is this hard to understand? Benny Elon was born in Jerusalem and wants to give the 50% of Palestinians that want leave $100,000 per family to help them. Lieberman moved to Israel close to 20 years ago and didn't get $100,000! But perhaps this is all to complicated for you ? Mike
28. #15 Please read: Arabs who don't fall into propaganda
Logic ,   Israel   (10.28.07)
The following videos are in Arabic with English subtitles from a website which records shows on Middle Eastern TV. It seems that not every Arab agrees with you thoughts on Iraq and Israel: "Iraqi MP Iyad Jamal Al-Din: Democracy in the Middle East Can Only Be Established by Force" http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1351.htm "Iraqi MP Iyad Jamal Al-Din: We Are Like a Bird Born in a Cage - America Broke the Cage Open, but the Bird Does Not Know How to Fly" http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1285.htm "Former Dean of Islamic Law at Qatar University Abd Al-Hamid Al-Ansari Speaks Out in Support of US Presence in the Middle East" http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1521.htm "Former Dean of Islamic Law at Qatar University Abd Al-Hamid Al-Ansari Speaks Out against Suicide Operations and Declares His Support of American Presence in Iraq" http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1450.htm "Iraqi Politician Iyad Jamal Al-Din:The Arabs Use Israel as a Pretext for Their Backwardness, But Don't Really Want Democracy" http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/979.htm "Iraqi Politician Iyad Jamal Al-Din: The Arabs Want Tyrannical Regimes, in Line with Their Backward Culture" http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/793.htm
29. The Lieberman lie
Ken Besig ,   Kiryat Arba Israel   (10.28.07)
It seems like Lieberman lies to everybody. All his superhawk talk now is just for show, just like his campaign for office when he promised not to sit with the likes of Olmert and Sharon. Lieberman is a cynical, corrupt, and all too typical Israeli politico who has more in common with the Shas thieves than with the decent people of Israel.
30. #19 - unstable? I think not ..
redmiike ,   tel aviv and london   (10.28.07)
Unstable suggests some mental problem and I don't think that Lieberman suffers from that. I voted for him and was disappointed up until Saturday night. Now however he has stopped Olmert from doing yet another stupid thing and for that I am grateful. It was not an easy decision for Lieberman because he will now be accused of bringing about the collapse of the negotiations. They would have collapsed anyway but Olmert might have done damage that would have been difficult to reverse - Mike
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