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No 'Israelis' in Israel?
Aviram Zino
Published: 31.10.07, 20:45
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26 Talkbacks for this article
1. The nationality is "Jew" or "Hebrew", not "Israeli"
Antonio ,   Haifa   (10.31.07)
2. "Jewish State" recognizes neither Israelis nor Palestinians
Naftali Lavie ,   Toronto, Canada   (10.31.07)
One would think that the nationals of a modern state would, by definition, have the nationality of that state. Thus, a French national is French nationality, a Canadian national is Canadian nationality, an IEgyptian national is IEgyptian nationality. Not, however, when the state is a "Jewish state". That state claims to belong to an ethnic group, not to the nationals of the state ("state of all its citizens"). Combine that with the undemocratic practice (i.e. facilitates discrimination) of marking "nationality" in one's ID card. The result: Only 2 "nationalities" are unrecognized for the purpose of the Israeli ID card: i.e. "Israeli", and "Palestinian". OY VEY - the madness of having a "Jewish state" in Eretz Yisrael-Palestine!
3. Removing the difference
Rouven ,   Tel-Aviv, Israel   (10.31.07)
As soon as there's an "Israeli" nationality the differences between Jews and other Israelis like Russians and arabs will disappear. If I'm a jewish atheist I could state my nationality as Israeli, so could an arab that does not follow islam or christianity. That would make him not only the citizen of the same country as me but he would suddenly be of the same people. That applies to actually all israeli citizens which don't explain their ethnicity by a religous membership. That means a bureaucratic mix of people. Arabs and Jews and all others will suddenly be the same. How do you like it???
4. Nationality in the Jewish National Home
Aharon   (10.31.07)
Is JEWISH.
5. secularists oh my!!
izzy d   (10.31.07)
they want to remove the idea that Israel is a jewish nation and instead replace it with the secular Israeli identity. Ben gurion declared israel a jewish state and thats the way it should be
6. #2Citizenship vs Nationality
Raphael ,   Netanya   (10.31.07)
The soviet citizenship included hundreds of nationalities; the swiss citizenship includes 4 nationalities; the yugoslav citizenship included 6nationalities. Nationality can be linked to language (Switzerland, Belgium, Spain), religion( Bosnia, Malaysia, Israel). Should all sudanese black christians, or moroccan Jews be defined as Arabs? Tibetans or Mongols as Chinese? If a state is multiethic (like the ottoman or austrian empires), nationality must not be linked to citizenship.
7. #3:"JEWISH atheist,non-moslem ARAB" you admit 2 diferent
atheistNATIONALITIES ,   NELSON STEIN-Brazil   (11.01.07)
8. if your an Israeli citizen your an Israeli
zionist forever   (11.01.07)
You make aiilya formerly take out Israeli citizenship which entitles you to the ID card and passport then you should legaly be classed as Israeli. If your an imigrant your entitled to duell nationality but as far as the State of Israel is concerned if your legaly an Israeli citizen Its down to the country where the imigrant came from to decide if they are enetlied to keep their citizenship of that country or not. Some countries like Austrialia dont allow duel nationality and if you want to become an In Israeli citizen you officialu loose your Australian citizenship so what should a person in that category be classed as an Israeli or an Australian even though thay have taken away their citizenship. If your fortunate enough to come from a country that permits duel nationality then in Israel you should legaly be an Israeli then in the other country your one of them. All other countries have written on their ID cards and passports that your a citizen of the state you belong to in the US if your a citizen either born there or an imigrant your an AMERICAN CITIZEN It seems there is some kind of shame attitude in Israel where we are to embaresed to calling the citizens of the country ISRAELI CITIZEN you can be an imigrant from Russia or the US and as far as the authroties are concerened your an American or Russian heaven forbid your actualy called an Israeli Come on people make life easier for EVERYBODY yourselves included simply say if you have Israeli citizenship your an Israeli no need to worry about which of the 132 countries your from once you have citizenship your legaly Israeli nice and simple why make problems nobody wants but the burucrats? Couple of years back I made alliya today my family who do not live in Israel call me an Israeli when they are discussing me thats where I live and its a country I am legaly a citizen of.
9. # 6 Just not accurate.
EGW ,   vancouver canada   (11.01.07)
You are only artly right-barely. The Soviet "nation" is defunct, as is the Yugoslav. Neither the Swiss nor Belgian nationality can be linked to language, since the Belgians have 2 languages and 2 distinct peoples Walloon (French) and Flemish. The Swiss have at least 3 different groupings and languages-French, german and Italian. Bosnia isn't completely Islamic. The Tibetans and Mongols are distinctly diofferent from ethnic Chinese and are both invaded and occupied countries.
10. Categorizing Teudats - Mixups on Cards
Yakov ,   USA   (11.01.07)
The problem really isn't one. If they want to be clear of any issues of discrimination as well as those causing mixups with identity (Sudanese: Africans or Arabs?), then base the ID cards on one's citizenship status and role. 1)Citizen 2)Permanent Resident (Non citizens) 3)Temporary Resident-with an expirary date 4)Student-For Foreigners 5)Volunteer-For foreigners who want to contribute to national service. 6)Soldier-For citizens who make the IDF a full time career. Eligible for 50-75% off all goods & services in the country. 7)Seniors Same discounts as soldiers. See above. 8)Diplomats. The current practice of putting nationality on the ID cards is prone to mixups and abuse. The Russian Jews are a good example of this. I've heard of cases where "Russian" was put, even after the individuals came under Law of Return. If they came via Law of Return, they are entitiled to be recognized as Jews.
11. where are all the "palestinians are a myth" people?
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (11.01.07)
if palestinians don't exist, then apparently israelis don't either. which only further shows the absurdity of that lame argument.
12. Nationality on Teudat Zehut
Yerach ,   Jerusalem Israel   (11.01.07)
The policy has changed & now instead of Jew,Arab,etc. they now put ****** for everybody & nationality is not listed altogether.
13. #2 - ID cards
redmiike ,   tel aviv   (11.01.07)
I made Aliya 4 years ago and am a Jewish Israeli citizen. My ID card doesn't mention 'nationality' and for several years now the cards do not say Jewish or mention any other religion. The top of my card says, "State of Israel, Interior Ministry". Seems like your information is years out of date - Mike
14. nationality
CHAIM ,   PRAGUE   (11.01.07)
LANGUAGE = NATIONALITY. IVRIT LANGUAGE=HEBREW OR JEWISH NATIONALITY. RUSSIAN LANGUAGE = RUSSIAN NATIONALITY,... ETC. AUSTRIAN NATIONALITY, AMERICAN NATIONALITY, AUSTRALIAN NATIONALITY ... ISRAELI NATIONALITY ... IS NONSENSE AS WELL AS AUSTRIAN, AUSTRALIAN, AMERICAN ...ETC. LANGUAGE.
15. People, 'Jewish' is not a nationality.
DkS ,   J'lem   (11.01.07)
We Jews can be considered a 'people' (or a religious/cultural group only as some claim), not a 'nation'. These are 2 fundamentally different terms. Nationality is related to statehood. There is no state of 'Judea' whose inhabitants are called 'Jews' and where people speak 'Jewish' and hold Jewish citizenship or passports. What there is, is an Israeli nation, the majority of whom are Jews who speak Hebrew, have the NATIONALITY (citizenship) of ISRAEL, and in many cases also belong to one or more other nations. Like me, an immigrant from Holland, who also hold Dutch nationality. 'Nationality' is the next closest thing to 'citizenship' (or basically the same) and should by no means be confused with 'peoplehood'. Simply put: basically the petitioners are right. There is no such thing as 'Jewish' or 'Arab' nationality, but there definitely is an Israeli nationality. Most of the talkbackers here are simply not accurate, misguided, or don't know the difference between the terms. Getting your facts straight doesn't make you any less of a Zionist, don't worry.
16. Kafkaesque Ministry of Interior
Michael ,   Haifa   (11.01.07)
They could solve the bureaucratic conundrum by adding another item to the identity card, thus, Nationality = Israeli, plus Rationality = "x" (out of the 138 existing options)
17. ISRAELI
STANLEY ,   tel aviv ISRA   (11.01.07)
I think it is very simple if you live in ISRAEL and have israeli id card YOU ARE ISRAELI. Your backround & roots don't reallly matter
18. # 13 You do not know it
Sagi ,   Israel   (11.01.07)
but your id card states that you are "Yehudi". This is in encoded form.
19. I am very proud to be an Israeli
Sagi ,   Israel   (11.01.07)
but not so proud these days to be "Jewish". In my childhood and youth I was proud to be "Jewish" and did all I could to accentuate the fact. Religion means nothing to me as it is complete nonsense. Heritage and history and the Land of Israel mean all the world to me and should be of prime importance to all "Jews". The gathering of the exiles should in time erase the words "eda" and "shevet" from our daily lexicon. I sincerely hope that in my lifetime I shall be able to have "Israeli" inscribed on my id card, in bold letters and not in encryption. I shall be proud.
20. The Jews Are A NATION: Always Were & Always Will Be
Yishai Kohen ,   YeShA, Israel   (11.01.07)
Exodus 19:6 But you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy NATION. Deuteronomy 7:6-8 For you are a NATION consecrated to the L-rd your G-d: of all the NATIONS on earth the L-rd your G-d chose you to be His treasured NATION. It is not because you are the most numerous of NATIONS that the L-rd set His heart on you and chose you indeed, you are the smallest of NATIONS; but it was because the L-rd favored you and kept the oath He made to your fathers that the L-rd freed you with a mighty hand and rescued you from the house of bondage, from the power of Pharaoh king of Egypt. Deuteronomy 14:2 For you are a NATION consecrated to the L-rd your G-d: the L-rd your G-d chose you from among all other NATIONS on earth to be His treasured NATION. Deuteronomy 26:5 You shall then recite as follows before the L-rd your G-d: My father was a fugitive Aramean. He went down to Egypt with meager numbers and sojourned there; but there he became a great and very populous NATION. =====
21. Israeli nationality
Daniel Shimoni ,   Colmar, France   (11.01.07)
In 1969, I erased "yehudi" from the "leom" line on my identity card. In 1970, when I wanted to marry, the rabbinate of Haïfa refused to accept my identity. I had to get a new identitiy card with "yehudi" at it's due place. As you see, nothing new under the sun. Daniel
22. to #3 Israeli nationality has nothing to do with arabs
NB   (11.01.07)
Israeli nationality certainly exists but it has nothing to do with arabs. Israeli Jews have two identities: one is Jewish, another Israeli. Any person who speaks Hebrew as a mother tongue and lives like Israeli is Israeli. And if such a person makes military service in one of the combat units even Israeli Jews will admit that he is more Israeli than most Israelis even if his mother is not Jewish. And this applies to many people who are half or quarter Jewish on the 'wrong' side and immigrated to Israel under the current law of return. But what it has to do with Arabs??? The thing is that in day to day talk Israeli Jews themselves call themselves Israelis more often than they call themselves Jews. And Israelis Arabs also call Israeli Jews Israelis and themselves Arabs. This shows that everybody, Jews and Arabs, use the term Israeli to refer to people who adopted Hebrew based Israeli culture.
23. how to become an Israeli ?
Atilla   (11.01.07)
1.no matter what happens, you will always support Israel in any condition. 2. you will love your next israeli door. TO HAVE RACISM IN HOME IS TOO STUPID. 3. you have to know the difference between JEWISH SOUL and ISRAELI SOUL. You got to have both. 4. you wont expect a lot from the goverments. DONT YOU SEE HOW THEY CONFUSE TO SERVE TO EACH YOU ? 5. like all other things ! DEMOCRACY ALSO SHOULD HAVE A LIMIT. Goverments determine it. Respect Knesset, Respect that old ADL boss, Abe Foxman. 6. try to work on your childreen with special care. feed them with love. but teach them to fight LIKE ATİLLA THE HUN ! love Atilla Karagözoğlu PS: Good Morning MYYNET ! If you dont publish an article from Miss Tali Farkash ! I will leave you today. never come back :)
24. for a great israeli brotherhood ! LISTEN UP :)
The Achi   (11.01.07)
1.no matter what happens, you will always support Israel in any condition. 2. you will love your next israeli door. TO HAVE RACISM IN HOME IS TOO STUPID. 3. you have to know the difference between JEWISH SOUL and ISRAELI SOUL. You got to have both. 4. you wont expect a lot from the goverments. DONT YOU SEE HOW THEY CONFUSE TO SERVE TO EACH YOU ? 5. like all other things ! DEMOCRACY ALSO SHOULD HAVE A LIMIT. Goverments determine it. Respect Knesset, Respect that old ADL boss, Abe Foxman. 6. try to work on your childreen with special care. feed them with love. but teach them to fight LIKE ATİLLA THE HUN ! love Atilla Karagözoğlu Achi :)
25. How about ISRAELITES ? the muzzies will hate that lmao
jack bauer   (11.01.07)
nationality means nothing these days. My country is filled with those that hold this so called "nationality" at the same time they despise the native people who are a distinctive race
26. # 3: You're absolutely right
Sam Gregory ,   usa   (11.01.07)
I'm glad another form of discrimination in "Israel" is being shed the light upon. Indeed, if people can say they're "Israelis" and all be defined as "Israelis", it won't be easy to discriminate against Arab-"Israelis" and Russian-"Israelis" and German-"Israelis" etc... But it also makes sense not to acknowledge such a notion as "Israeli" nationality, because "Israel" is NOT a nation. It is an American military base, on occupied land. Everyone must know where they came from to know where to return when this military base is destroyed. But Rouven, I do appreciate your comment. Different sects shouldn't be treated as equal in "Israel". The Ashkenazi-Jewish should be always recognized as the "Superiors", and the others always must know they are "inferior" in "Israel", the Holy Land occupied by the Zionists.
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