Wasn't there something in the torah once about not murdering, not stealing and not coveting your neighbours' property. Or has that been omitted from the IDF version of the bible? What obviously hasn't beed expurgated is the ordenance to destroy the amalakites and the useful bits about having been given Palestine and having been made the chosen ones.

kapo unit. whose aim has been and will be the expulsion of Jews from their homes. That is the simple truth. The "Israelis" dont want a Jewish country. They want a country like all the others. Witness the fact that they brough in 100's thousounds of russian goyim. Now that are worried about Sudan blacks. The state is doomed. Eretz Yisroel will live forever. What I suggest is that all Jews learn to handle guns and start buying them en mass. The IDF is a toothless paper tiger.

Not regular observant religious Jews. Since when did Haredim become the standard for Orthodox Judaism? This is a position which they usurped in a sense - nothing (except themselves) says this is normative Judaism. While I am not religious, I have no problem with observant Jews. I am willing to make many compromises so that this remains a Jewish state. But, all things considered, Haredim are a recent phenomena - a product of 17th Century Eastern Europe. The Torah was not written by Haredim. The great works of Jewish law & philosophy were not written by Haredim. Their efforts at self-isolation are a throw-back to the ghettos & shtetles of Europe. They have made a virtue of the persecution of that era. It is far more than "packaging" as you call it, although I don't find anything particularly Jewish about their attire. They are becoming a sect - separating themselves from the rest of Jewry.

Torah true judaism is not about proving to non-jews that they're wrong in aspects of their religion. It is about obeying G-d's commandments. Since the Messiah is to build the temple on the mount itself as a house of prayer for all people and solve the various 'doubts' associated with this issue, then what is there to protest? Wouldn’t time be better spent doing what the Torah, prophets and sages teach will bring the Messiah, which is tshuvah and torah and miswoth/mitzvos.

They sadly balance the secular Jews to ensure our survival. But they don't keep the Torah either. They keep the superstitious additions to the Torah. They call Jews who don't keep it like themselves as not Jewish, maybe it's simply a reflection of their own selves. They are so obsessed with the irrelevant additions not in the Torah. They follow the Oral Torah(Talmud) which was not even existing at Sinai. If it where, surely the Essenes, Sadducees along with the Temple Priests would surely have known about it. It is an invention of the Pharisees, the founders of modern Judaism. They follow the Shulchan Aruch which is based off the Babylonian Talmud for the most part which was not at Sinai either. There is tremendous wisdom in the writings of the sages, but it is not the Torah and when we add to it, complicate it and not live by it the best we can, none of us can claim to follow the Torah. Either we follow it, or follow men. The written Torah is the 10 Commandments, and the real Oral Torah is the remaining Chumash as the ancient Hebrews where illiterate and could not write. We Jews need to clean up this mess, ignore the Shulchan Aruch and return to the Torah which works today, just as it did at Sinai. Who are the rabbi's to change the eternal blueprint for life. We wonder why Israel is in such a mess. Look at www.samsonblinded.org/blog to begin.

Read comments #13 from Moshe Grylak one of the best journalist, and #17, #27, and you'll know the truth why the chareidim are not joining the army. In one word, THE STATE DOES NOT WANT THEM! They just want to "publicly" find fault with the chareidim but they don't want them in the army, and neither do you, chareidi bashers, want thousands of chareidim in the army. So stop your phony criticism and say it as it is that you don't want the religious in the army who'll effect you or your children to become religious "fanatics".

go to www.samsonblinded.org/blog and on the right side are many articles about the Torah and how we don't follow it, but a different religion based on the Torah. It is an incredible read, and I cannot so far find anything to discredit or change the Torah, but it surely does show the flaws we currently face within Orthodox Judaism. It does not endorse any other religion or psuedo Judaism (ie secularism, reform or conservative movements).

Haredim is just a word to define ortodox Jews ,who wear more or less that way. Which other group practices ortodox Judaim than Haredim? Certainly not Reformists or even Traditionals,to whom Judaism can be as light as the taste of the consumer.This kind of Judaism they practice is the one which puts in danger Judaism itself,especially Reform,which is an assimilation upside down. Ortodox Jews,or Haredim ,if you prefer,are the ones who are faithful.They don't risk Jewish principles and that's why they are very faithfull. When I am in Brasil by circunstances,I join a Haredi Sinagogue,Beith Chabad,and I can tell you that they are very,very trustfull people and I feel safe and accepted by them,and I learn in my own path and rithm,without being pushed. I respect and like them and they respect and like me ,even if I do not wear strictly the way the more religious do. Well,but coming back to IDF,yes,I think Haredim should serve ,in solidarity to their brothers,but I think they should be allowed to set their political limits,for example by not accepting to uproot their brothers or fight a fight they know they are going to be slaughtred to please a sick and wick government,or they are going to give up our Land,what is impossible to accept by them and by any sane person. If IDF wants them,IDF must cede and have its politics discussed with this group.In my opinion,IDF has only to gain listening to them and getting them as its soldiers.

the "torah" that this article speaks about is very clear in defining the rights and obligations of a jew in times of war. first, any war to defend the land and the people of israel is COMPULSORY ("milhemet hova" and not "milhemet reshut"). there are no exceptions. second, the torah (devarim 20:1) very explicitly states the valid reasons (a new house, a new vineyard, a new wife) for a man to be excused from service in the army - "i don't like the size of the general's yarmulkah" isn't included, but neither is "i'd rather stay home and study torah". the one other category of exemption is for those who are afraid. but the torah very clearly says (in the very same chapter) not to be afraid, because the lord your god will go with you, to fight for you against your enemies and to save you. clearly, those yeshiva bohers who do not have newly planted houses, vineyards or wives, are either refusing the mitzvah of "milhemet hova" or refusing the mitzvah to trust in god. neither one can be justifiable by any halakhic rationalization. in a less direct reference, they are also negating the commandment of moshe rabbeinu to the tribes of gad and reuven (bamidbar 32), that their men must also join in the fight for the land of israel - they left behind their families, for the unity of israel. from this we learn that we must not exclude ourselves from the plight of klal yisrael. i find it disturbing that a young man in israel, who claims to be hareidi, should not know even the most basic torah, and needs to be told this. tzei ulmad!

I always agree with your very correct replies to the insane world we have in Israel. Chareidim in past generations were known as "hasidim v'anshei maaseh" you will se refrence to them in the mishna and talmud. By a hasid it says "torato umunato" torah was their livelyhood. We see from the tribe of Levi that did not go to battle and continued to study. That said, I retriate my past comments and agree with Moshe Grylak of Mishpacha.

Firstly #1 Rivkah is a J4J so please keep your mouth shut spewing your christian crap when we are discusing hareidim seeing as your "torah" is a bit skewd. Secondly, you all fail to see the point.. laugh and mock the hareidim all you want but this is a legimate issue.. Would you demand the arabs join the army and not accomodate them?

Sorry Esther, but this is nonsense, Grylak's article is ridiculous. It may be true thatthe secular leftitists are not happy with religous Jews in the army, and will try to prevent them from becomign influential in the military and politics. That doesn't mean there isn't a requirement for manpower inthe army. The state has no been around for 60 years, and Haredim have always shirked responsibility to fight. The Army had manpower shortages, but Haredim wanted exemptions. Are you saying that the army would never had taken any haredim? That is nonsense. In fact, it took many Mizrachi and zionist yeshiva students, and had a General and Chief rabbi called Shlomo Goren, who liberated Jerusalem. So there is a capacity to take the haredim, you are just looking for excuses to justify their refusal to serve.

You've chosen to mislead people by saying that when you went to Israel, etc., etc... Why not say the synagogue you visited was a reform synagogue in California??? Of course they'd be preaching liberal material.

It was the orthodox Jews who kept the religion alive and well over the millenia. Without them, Judaism would have died out, there would be no Israel and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I'm Charedi from a Charedi family and a veteren of Nachal Charedi. I can clearly state that any boy who has "gone off the derech" in Nachal Charedi, would most probably have done so anyway! Any boy who is serious about staying Charedi, CAN DO SO in Nachal Charedi (and I am a living example)! It is not a prefect system, but it works well, and will work a lot better when all the charedi Rabbis (and journalists...) get on board and help instead of staying on the outside and bashing. To all you charedi bashers; you know as well as I do that we could enlist every charedi boy in Israel, you would only find something else to bash us about! And please don’t dictate how we should follow our Torah, at least afford us the same respect you do to Arabs. (I never read any one of you ranting about how you have to take off your shoes in a mosque, but being asked to cover some skin in Meah Shiarim, that’s an outrage!)

Focus on defending our Land, nothing else.

On your part: You wouldn't mind being in an army with a bunch of chareidim who might cause you or your children to (G-d forbid) become chareidi? I'm sure you would. On the chareidim's part: Do you expect chareidim to be around those seculars and their filthy language and sit around with girls and women? Even 60 years ago the moral standards of the seculars wasn't any better and safer for religious boys than it is today.

Firstly the army was never accomodating to religious soldiers for the first 40 years.. then it got worse when female soldiers were put into combat and mixed units. The poisin they are brainwashed with, to hate religious jews.. that the settlers in gush katif were the enemy right? You constaly rant and rave about how they are not serving in the army to defend the country.. But is this not a jewish state ? a american serving in the US armed forces has better religious freedom and respect. Soldiers are mocked for their peyot, their requests for kashrut denied, requests for tefillah laughed at, their religious items defiled... What happend to religious tolerance ? thats not applicibale for hareidim? To "hareidi cult" reply, the chador and burkah are new and modern inventions with the arabs.. yet everyone rushes to respect them.. even if you can barely see their eyes and suspect its a male hidding there..g-d forbid you ask them to take it off. And all you bashers in america, keep your mouth shut, neither you nor you children have or will serve in the army. As a final note, a good portion of the army is constructed of hareidim no longer religious.. watch who you bash because if their parent had no kids there'd be no army. AND I do not have figures, but I know for fact that hareidim / settlers do reserve duty WAY WAY WAY more than non religious.

You changed the subject. It's not about whether the Hareidim should serve in units that they'd find incompatible with their desire to be observant. It's about whether they should join the Nachal units, where they CAN be observant. The issue the author raised is that as long as the army is not all like them, then they cannot join the army. This is rediculous.

I have been in Israel nearly five months since June of 2006 on three visits. I have observed many things and sadly have to say the critics of Jews are right in some ways. For Orthodox/Haredim Jews to shy away from military service, for example, is not biblical when King Solomon said the principle occupation of Israel must be warfare. There are no animal sacrifices and Levirate priesthood until the Third Temple is rebuilt. Until then, there are rabbis and teachers and chanters who should all serve in the military for the survival of Israel. If nothing else, they can BLESS the IDF.

tb's since you lack the depth and understanding and wisdom to appreciate them.

read the bible at lunchtime rarely get promoted and are attacked by others who call them unbalanced. When a US Navy Chaplain prayed in the name of Jesus since he was Christian, he was court-martialed for that and thrown out of the Navy after 14 years of service. He and his family of four children had to leave military housing with no place to go and no job and no support. There is no religious freedom in the US military. Most military members avoid the base (military) chapels for fear of being branded religious. America is now atheist from court decisions and laws against religions. I personally was attacked for reading the bible and refusing propositions from senior officers when I was a US Navy Reserve officer. They did not care that I was married. When I refused to divorce my husband and be a whore, I was written up as "suffering from religiousity" and told to resign my commission with an honorable discharged or be forced out with an administrative discharge. That is how a top one per cent fitness report officer was treated in the US Navy Ready Reserves in a Volunteer Training Unit that pays nothing for going to drills. Inspite of my religious beliefs, I served my country in the military for seven years.

Haredim will always find an excuse not to serve. If a Jordanian tank was rolling down Jaffo street the Haredim would not oppose it, if the Jordanians threw them some shekels for their schools. They do not care who is in charge, because the only world is theirs and only they are real Jews, in their estimation. Israel is bringing this welfare generation on themselves. Israel should follow Mexico's example, and start demanding civic behaviour in return for welfare payments. If a haredi school refuses to teach secular subjects along with Torah, that yeshiva should not receive state funds. If a haredi family has 8 kids, they should get payments only if those kids are in schools and taken to the doctor. It's a shonda, the whole thing. Daily haredim recite in the Birkat Hamazon a desire not to need "the gifts or loans of other people." Then they expect just that from working citizens.

Of which you are not a member of! You are an apostate messianic attempting to "teach" us Jews of what we know more about then you ever will with your great lie. You, along with the other apostates will soon be screaming as you disappear from this planet. Esav is finished, you simply don't know. Since your simple mind cannot comprehend that, it means your idiology is done.

"Fortunate you are, Israel, a nation saved by God, your shield and help, AND THAT YOUR SWORD IS YOUR PRIDE, AND YE SHALL TROD ON THE HIGH PLACES OF YOUR ENEMY

With all the respect due to a vet , you can't compare a street , even in Mea Shearim . with a place of worship . A street is not a place of worship , and not a reserved domain to anyone .

That's the way this "rivkaka" does always . She was most probably NEVER in Israel , tells always nice invented stories , and sometimes even writes hatefull TB's . She visited a "temple" , not a synagogue , smart people immediately konw about what this bipede is barking