Jewish Scene
'You can serve your country and stay haredi'
Rabbi David Fuchs
Published: 28.11.07, 07:39
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21 Talkbacks for this article
1. Netzah Yehuda
Ben ,   singapore   (11.28.07)
is a very classy brigade....actually this haredi salvage other IDF soldiers.Yes ! the IDF once again correct in promoting religious standards. GOOD Achievement ! But dont belttle the others in the IDF. Be Tolerant , Symbiotic and hoilstic IDF. When you see Terrorist wipe the OUT !
2. An excellent analysis
Shalom   (11.28.07)
One point - Rabbi Fuchs writes, those who do not wish or do not want to join this idealistic group" - I would suggest that this has been mistranslated from: to do not wish or are UNABLE. Not everyone is cut out for full-time study, and if a young man is not, he should be honest with himself; get off his backside, and join nachal Chareidi. I would further suggest that the part: "many youngsters who lost their spiritual way in the army" refers to the days before Nachal Chareidi were formed, and it was for this very reason that it came about. Yasher koach to all involved in nachal chareidi - may it go from strength to strength.
3. The existence of 'Nachal Charedi'
Chareidi ,   Jerusalem   (11.28.07)
Is a real Chillul Hashem. So-called (fake) 'chareidim' who support the Zionist state and walk around wearing Zionist uniforms, participating in the ugly Zionist crimes, endangering all Jews in the whole world. It would be better to sit in jail for ten years, than to serve in the Zionist army for one week.
4. #3
Keren ,   Israel-SP   (11.28.07)
My opinion about your opinion is that ,if your family came to Israel after 1948,you MUST serve.If your family came before 1948,you should have the right to skip Army. But what you never should do is blame and damage other "sionists"Jews who fight for this State. In the vision of many, Hertzl was even the Mashiach. I do not agree,of course,but he loved Jews,and with mistakes or not ,we are in Israel,and our job is to improve "ma she iesh".This is the healthy view. Solidarity to brother Jews ,who are fighting for you, should enter in your consideration.Love your neighbour as yourself is a very Jewish thought and it is part of Torah.
5. The few Chareidim who oppose Israel are a chilul Hashem
Chareidi man ,   Ramat Beit Shemesh   (11.28.07)
And a minority. The neturei karta freaks are marginalized even by us. They say it's asur to vote in Israeli elections. We don't listen. You'd be surprised but they see us as a bigger threat than they see the non-religious Jews. Our numbers and percentages increase daily and they know it. With the existence of Beitar and Kiryas Sefer, Kochav Yaakov and Immanuel, with us going to the Mercaz Harav yishuvim for Shabbos to visit (MANY of us have and more are going now than ever), we know where we all stand; not yet united, but on the way. We have a lot more in common with the Mercazniks than with the Holocaust-denying terrorist-supporting Arabs.
6. #3 Your an idiot!
Yosef ,   Jerusalem   (11.28.07)
Do you think that you would be able to sit on a computer writing your hatefull comments! i served in the army and was proud to do so, not b/c i am a Zionist but b/c i belive in defending the lives of other jews, obviously you dont feel the same way for your fellow jew as i do, so i say to you that all your torah is WORTHLESS! go back to poland.....
7. #3
Shalom   (11.28.07)
The only fake here is you, #3. My strong suspicion is that you are no Chareidi at all, just writing "as if" in order to create further vision and hatred. Chareidim don't write like you did. Ultra-seculars imitating ultra-orthodox do!
8. Nice Article; unfortunately the ranks of NAHAL Haredi...
Lev ,   US/IL   (11.28.07)
are not really filled with Haredim, they are filled with Machmir Religious Zionists. Haredim still feel its okay to take charity from a Secular Jewish State because the Haredi Mafia wields so much Government influence. The RAMBAM Zt"l would not approve of thier beggars lifestyle and the impoverishment of thier families for their "lofty" studies !
9. Shalom
charles ,   petach tikva   (11.28.07)
No Shalom , even ultra seculars will not write in this way . It's most probably one of those iran friends , who supports this anti Israel dictator . He received nice lessons there . Maybe it would be better to let such bipedes [ tswai fissedige behaiimes ] bark without to react
10. you know Yiddish
Charles #9   (11.28.07)
Nu host heint gelaigt tefilin ??? Did you put on tefilin today ??? The talmud on the all nations will fear you this tefilin sheberosh
11. hear hear!!
Netzach Yehuda vet   (11.28.07)
As a Vet of Netzach Yehuda I agree with rabbi Fuchs remarks. Rabbi, keep up your good work, anyone who has ever been in 97 will allways remember you (if for nothing else, then at least for the sukariyot!) Kol hakavod.
12. Shalom # 10
charles ,   petach tikva   (11.28.07)
Nain , sait mer wi 50 your nischt gelaigt kain tefilin . Ich geloib nischt . No , did'nt put on my tefilin for more than 50 years . I'm secular you know !
13. Charles
Shalom   (11.29.07)
Sorry - but I can't put yiddish on my resume. I was a relatively late-comer to orthodoxy, and never heard yiddish in my home. We know you are secular - what has this to do with anything?
14. Shalom , # 13
charles ,   petach tikva   (11.29.07)
i made an error by thinking that you had forgot your name , and this was an answer to this post . That's the explanation . We spoke Yiddish at home , and later also at my work where i had many Jewish colleagues , even Belzer chassidim .
15. What a pleasure
Nechama ,   Israel   (11.29.07)
and a Kiddush Hashem. Makes the 'other' article/excuses/opinions/defense mechanisms look so lame, no matter which 'major source' wrote subsequent comments. Keep writing please, as you represent the true and real chareidi community, and please, in addition, continue to thus give t seculars and their venom, a hard time.
16. but you can't serve in the IDF and stay observant
ora ,   Jerusalem   (11.29.07)
You can serve your country and stay hareidi, but you can't serve davka in the IDF and be fully Torah observant. A true story: A hareidi friend wanted to avoid service. So he went into the local IDF office and told them he would LOVE to serve. Couldn't wait. Just one thing: he would have to fight the way the Torah tells us to fight. That is, don't play "catch and release" with the enemy, don't just sit around waiting for him to try to attack you, but track him down and wipe him out. He would fight, he said, and he would wipe out as many terrorists as he could. Anyone affiliated with Hamas, Islamic Jihad, PFLP, Fatah--he would kill. Needless to say, he was not accepted for service. The moral of the story? The problem with IDF service and Torah values goes way beyond kashrut and service for females. The problem is that the entire system is based on twisted western values that put the terrorists' lives above our own. Making the food mehadrin won't make IDF service any more kosher.
17. Charles
Yerach ,   Jerusalem   (11.29.07)
Being that you live in Israel why not use your Hebrew name rather than your ghetto name?
18. Yerach ,
charles ,   petach tikva   (11.29.07)
All my papers abroad have my official name , and i don't want to have administrative problems there . I reserve my Yiddish name for religious purposes , even a secular can have a religious ceremony [ brith milah of grandchildren , bar mitswa of the same boys next year , and such things ] OK ? But what is the relation between my name and this article ? i answered your question , do it also
19. To 15 , nechama , you are WRONG
charles ,   petach tikva   (11.29.07)
Well this article was a pleasure for me to read . There are good Charidi guys who want to serve their country . Why should i have something against them ? They only deserve the same respect as all other GOOD charidi people who contributed SOO MUCH to their fellow citizens , religious or seculars . Look only at Yad Sara [ the actual Jerusalem mayor ] and Ezer Mitzion . This is certainly not the first time that i'm saying this .
20. Ora #16
edd ,   london Uk   (11.30.07)
would ur hareid friend have served if the IDF did allow him to fight like the Torah recommends?
21. Fuchs v Goldsmith on Haredi
micki SCHLOSS ,   Los Angeles, CA   (12.05.07)
"Goldsmith wrote that he knows many youngsters who lost their spiritual way in the army. I say, these young men lost their way long before they enlisted." Good stuff rabbi! The young need specifics as they are easier to understand and to categorize everything as good or bad. Older people see many reasons for everything, blending black and white into gray.
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