Livni: Time to pick sides
Roni Sofer
Published: 28.11.07, 08:55
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27 Talkbacks for this article
1. hay ms. rice
how can anyone make peace if the arab nations refused to even shake president olmert's hand upon arrival. entering peace negotiation is entering in good faith, not in animosity on arab side. in my opinion, the sausdi arabian representative was reprehensible in not agreeing to shake hands man to man with olmert. he was infantile, childish and an imbecil to boot! he didn't offer his hand because he says only after the palestinians get a state with jerusalem as capital, all "refugees" streaming back into israel and all territories given back after the entire arab world attacked israel in 1967 unprovoked. in other words, i will shake your jewish hand only if i can annihilate you first. then i will recognize you for the yahoud, a pig and ape that you are, the infidel that you are, the non believer that you are, the killer of our prophets that you are, the "usurper" that you are, only then, when you are back as my dihimi under muslim rule, will i shake your hand. does anyone know that wahabism islamist ideology and shariah law forbids any muslim to shake hands with a jew. they are forbidden to talk to them, to involve themselves with them, to invite them to muslim homes. they are unclean, as dogs are viewd in islam. this is how jews were treated in all arab countries from which they were kicked and tortured ruthlessly for generations. sorry, arabian prince. to the arab world you may be someone, but to us jews and most of the civilized western world you are nothing but an uneducated barbarian muslim nomad from arabia who was lucky enough to find oil on his land....and even that you do not know how to extract without american and western experts at hand. where would you be, prince, without your oil? maybe still wondering your empty desert with your 40 covered tortured wives with ahiry legs and stinking armpits. what have you produced prince, since the 12th century except for oil and terrorism and a monarchy and laws that continually punish the very nature of the human....freedom from opression. where are your humane human rights record, prince? what have you acheived compared to what israel has acheived and given the world community in 60 years' time? nothing! your heart is full of jealousy and malice when you realize that those jews you hold in such contempt have surpassed you by generations and millenia in science, inventions, technology, medicine and modernization. those jews you call pigs and monkeys have shown you what humans can acheive without a drop of oil. if it wasn't for your oil, most of the world will drop your so called kingdom in the trash bin of history where it should belong since you have never contributed anything good to civilization, never do and never will. go back home and drink your arak behind your kuran when no one sees you, whore around the globe when you are out of your country and then come home and subject all your population to the repression in which you never partake yourself. a liar, a cheat, a hypocrit and an imbecil of tghe highest order. we jews have it way way way over you in everything. we have had our kingdom 4,000 years ago when you were not even around and neither was your decrepit pedophile prophet.
2. urged Arab nations to step-up efforts to combat terrorism.
Psalms 83 ,   Selah   (11.28.07)
.....urged Arab nations to step-up efforts to combat terrorism...... Even if arab Governments commited themselves to combat terrorism in thier own countries...they already have put out so much propaganda of hate for Israel that they would risk the fall of thier own governments if they tried..... good thought
3. Livni is the real LEADER of Israel!
Judith, Haifa   (11.28.07)
Her excwellet speech was the best and most relevant one at the pathetic show at Anapolis. Listen to Livni she is the next PM of Israel. Rice is history. No one will miss her when Bush and she leave the white house.
4. #1 - right on!!!
Arthur ,   SF, CA   (11.28.07)
Kahane was right!!
5. TO #1, the nameless hate-sprinlker: LIES LIES LIES
Marwan ,   Amman, Jordan   (11.28.07)
yet to the two-faced operators of these talkbacks: so much for your "terms of use" when it comes to publishing the words of a hateful jew attacking & inciting like a rabid hound! shame on you.
6. Nice try, Ms. Livni
Chaya ,   Bat Yam, Israel   (11.28.07)
But this is not a movie where your words would cause everyone to take out a tissue and wipe the tears from their eyes at your saying that all children have the right to live in peace. Their hatred for us has put a veil in front of their eyes!
7. We can only rely on our enemies to save us from our friends
Lemmings Hotline ,   sd usa   (11.28.07)
Thank you Assad, Arafat, Nasser for saving us from Olmert, Rabin, Perez, Beilin and Barak and all the rest of our friends who would sell us down the river in an instant for personal glory and a 20 million dollar lecture circuit.
8. TO # 1 please read my comment my freind
WAEL ,   palestine + Kuwait   (11.28.07)
yo said ( does anyone know that wahabism islamist ideology and shariah law forbids any muslim to shake hands with a jew. they are forbidden to talk to them, to involve themselves with them, to invite them to muslim homes. they are unclean, as dogs are viewd in islam. this is how jews were treated in all arab countries from which they were kicked and tortured ruthlessly for generations. ) what u said is totaly wronge about islam maybe u heared it from wronge source my freind .just to make it clear to u and others people who may not know anything about islam.The prophet Mohammed(peace be upon him) used to live door to door with a Juwish Nheibor he used to visit him while he is sick and present gifts him in juwish religion days.. our profit told us to treat people of books ( juwish and cristians) like we treat muslims if they live near us or with us in 1 place
9. because withdrawing from S. Lebanon and Gaza brought Peace
aaron ,   ra'anana   (11.28.07)
I am the last person who would stand in the way of REAL peace in the middle east and on earth - but is this really the best way to bring Peace? Endless concessions, pullouts and gestures to a powerless palestinian government pretending to represent a people which (all polls show) wants to throw us into the sea and destroy our country? is this the way ? did this way work to bring peace between lebanon and israel? did this way work to bring peace between israel and gaza, where not one inch taken in 1967 remains under Israeli occupation? will this way work to bring peace between Israel and the Assad family dictatorship now ruling Syria and Lebanon? think about it.
10. syrian "land for negotiations" -spoken like a true terrorist
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (11.28.07)
it's as if syria couldn't have been proving more that they cannot be trusted, yet they are asking israel to give them what they want for the "promise" of negotiating, the end result of which could very well be no agreement and return to facilitating terror. no, the status quo is better than giving something and getting absolutely peanuts in return.
11. To nos. 5 and 4
eh-oop ,   UK   (11.28.07)
No. 1's polemical style comes across as tasteless, but the Saudi regime's beliefs, standards and style are just that. The facts support no.1. Kahane's hatred had too much in common with that of the Saudis for my liking. Let's try and move forward in these difficult circumstances but maintain a firmer grasp of what's strategically important than Olmert appears to be capable of.
12. #5 Marwan Amman Jordan - The truth hurts.
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (11.28.07)
And for #1 - that was an excellent description of the truth. Livni is wasting her breath with her little lecture. No one was listening least of all the Arabs. She is very naive although I'm sure she's sincere, unlike our other slimeball politicians. But she talks like a beggar, pleading our cause to deaf ears. Our adversaries care nothing about peace, they care nothing about human suffering, they certainly care nothing about us. To them, this is just another tactic to weaken us, to defeat us, to eliminate us. And we are fools to play along with this game.
13. #1 - Best talkback EVER!
Concerned ,   Israel   (11.28.07)
Tell it like is, man! Did you see that "Sowdi" trying to keep a low profile, hanging his head in his shmatta, so he wouldn't have to see any jooooos? Shame on anyone doing any business with those oil ticks, those poor excuses for human beings.
14. Refusing to shake hands was Wrong!
Mark ,   Boston   (11.28.07)
It sends a message that Saudi Arabia does not truly want peace. Does anyone agree? disagree? He may have done it to show that the Arab world is not caving into the demands of Israel. He has to appear that way to prevent the extremists from rising up. Saudi Arabia does not want the extremists to take over the region. That may explain his actions too. There are many extremists in the region and their numbers are growing!
15. Saudia Arabia is in a delicate positon.
Mark ,   Boston   (11.28.07)
When Egypt made peace with Israel, this created a rift in the Arab world. Sadat was killed. Arab countries severed their ties with Egypt for a long period. King Abdullah does not want to be killed like Sadat.
16. There is nothing to talk about.
Avraham ,   Netivot   (11.28.07)
We don't talk to terrorists.
17. They can have withdraw land in phases
Mark ,   Boston   (11.28.07)
Egypt and Israel did this. Why can't Syria. It does not have to be all or nothing!
18. Lebanon changed its demands.
Mark ,   Boston   (11.28.07)
Lebanon wants Sheba Farms and now a border village town. Any more towns or villages Lebanon?
19. # 5 Marwan, Amman, Jordan
Josef Matamoros ,   Finland   (11.28.07)
So, Mr. Marwan, with your own words you proved just one fact: normally Arabs are unable/unwilling to self-reflection, though there is a lot of basis to practice that self-reflection. This, as well, would mean intellectual honesty towards yourself. The fact is that several Arab states have started several destruction wars against Israel and its existence but always failed. Now the viable tactic, as you very well know, is the use of proxies like Hamas, islamic Jihad and from 1964 onwards the Arab League founded PLO/Fatah. You never come out of middle ages without honest self-reflection. The choice is yours.
20. Arabs object Israel as a "Jewish state"
Mark ,   USA   (11.28.07)
This issue has now come to the surface. We have all heard 2 states 2 people living side by side in peace. One Jewish One Palestinian. Now all of a sudden there is a change. Israel can no longer call itself a Jewish state. I think and I may be wrong that this is a tactic to force Israel to give up all Israeli-Arab towns and more land to the PA.back to UN partition plan
21. Thank you #1 for a brilliant speech!!!!
Alan ,   SA   (11.28.07)
22. BottomLine:: Livini was Loud & Clear to Muslim world !!
KMR ,   Middle East   (11.28.07)
23. to # 8.....u read my comment
God ,   USA,Israel   (11.28.07)
Mohammed used the trick of a temporary truce (permitted in Islam) to make a treaty called the Hudaibiya Treaty with the Jewish Koraish tribe. But, in 628 C.E. at the Khaidar Oasis, Mohammed killed them. Arafat often claims that the Oslo Treaty is similar to the Hudaibiya Treaty which Mohammed violated with impunity when he was militarily stronger. (4)
24. to # 8...more to read ,more comments
God ,   USA,Israel   (11.28.07)
Mohammed spent his early years among the Jewish tribes particularly in and around Yathrib (Medina). It was, therefore, not unusual for Mohammed to include a pilgrimage to Mecca since the Jewish Torah called for the Jews to make three pilgrimages to Jerusalem each year on Sukkot, Pesach, and Shavuot. There is much in the Koran that finds its source in the Torah (Jewish Bible).
25. Move forward, not back
Aryeh Wetherhorn ,   Elazar, Israel   (11.28.07)
The current texts used in Palestinian schools teach that Israel must/will be/should be destroyed. In books for children as early as the 2nd grade the name of Israel is erased or omitted from reproductions of maps. This kind of education, and not any other cause, is what really leads to the daily rocket attacks. Until it changes there is little chance of any political declarations leading to a true peace. The only place in the world today where the "protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" is still printed and treated like a faactual account instead of the hoax that it really was is in the Arab world. The main reason the so-called Arab 'Refugee problem" still exists is that the Arabs arranged to put them in the care of UNRWA and to place UNRWA outside the jurisdiction of the UN High Commissioner on Refugees. Otherwise there would have been programs to resettle them in new places. We are now 60 years after the 1948 Arab rejection of the UN partition plan. Who remembers today that some 60,000 or more of the 'refugees' that fled from Haifa during the 1948 war had immigrated to Palestine from Iraq and Syria little more than a decade before? None of the above items seem to appear in the curriculum of any Arab country. Instead, they glorify "martyrs". It is time to chage this and to teach Arab children to respect their neighbors and other cultures. Teach kids Peace! If this had been done decades ago there would be no need for this kind of summit today.
26. #8 response from #1
i think, my friend, that you need a heavy doze of historical research and furthur reading so that you won't make the immature and incorrect statements found in your posts about muslims living and loving the jews in their midst. one has to only open a history book of jewish life in muslim lands prior to the birth of israel as a jewish nation, to find out exactly how "well" the jews were treated in muslim lands around the glove and in the arabian penninsula. need i remind you of the 1,000,000 jewish refugees who were kicked out from arab lands after 1947, whose properties, homes, riches, businesses, monies, bank accounts, art, livelihoods, and possesssions have been confiscated by arab muslim governments in 22 arab lands, where jews were kicked out un mass with only a couple of dinars or dollars and the shirt on thier back? what was the fault of these poor miserable jews and why were they kicked out? do you know? and do not tell me it was because they supported "zionism" and had aspirations of living in their holy land. it is a well researched, known, cemented FACT of history that these million jews were some of the earliest civilization in those arab lands. however, they NEVER ENJOYED FREEDOMS UNDER MUSLIM RULE. period! they were relegated to jewish ghettos kept in filthy conditions without electricity and water, devoid of government protection, constantly terrorized by muslim arabs taking their frustration and hate on the yahouds, not allowed an education, not allowed to attend universities, not allowed to become doctors, lawyers, professors, teachers and not alowed to enter many professions or serve in the government. they had no representative except in their communities and ghettos. arabs constantly enterede their homes, stole from them and subjected them to humiliation. one practice was that they were not allowed to have witnesses in an arab court for their grievances, no one to represent them at all. their girls were raped by arab mobs often in front of their parents eyes, young men were hanged on the premise that they were zionist spies, their money and businesses often stollen from without any arab police intervention, muslims insisted that when they pass a jew on a street, the jew has to bow to the arabs and let them pass. there were no hand shakes my friend since they were viewed as dirty and unclean. they were relegated to dihimi status, infidels and non believers without any rights politically and legally. and that was not by the kuran, but by the arab government rules. their synagogues were often raided and burned, their boys often murdered by mobs and rioters as the police watched near by. some good books to read about the fate of these poor jews: 1. from time immemorial by joan peters 2. the fogotten millions- the modern jewish exodus from arab lands by malka hillel shulewitz in case you reside in any arab land, i doubt you can find honest truthful history about such topics as they are haram and forbidden literature in your country. what you may liberally find is the protocols of the elders of zion and mein kamf in very large quantities in your street vendors' bazaars. i suggest you order these books from amazon. com over the internet and i also suggest you read them in secret and hide these books under your mattress at home as none of your leaders would want to you to discover the truth and destroy years of lying and hateful and historically skewed arab propaganda they have heaped on you people for generations. to read all is to know all. to read what you are not allowed to read in your country is exactly what needs to be done in arab lands to begin to self reflect and understand how you were kept in the dark like a mushroom and and fed bulls***t al your entire life.
27. livni
sas ,   israel   (12.05.07)
ms. livni - go home. u r good for nothing. u have done nothing and are not capable of doing anything. stay at home. you and your fellow members of the government are all total failures and corrupt. this country has deteriorated to such an extent that I am doubtful if we will ever be able to stand up straight again.
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