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World powers to bankroll Palestinian state
Roni Sofer
Published: 17.12.07, 10:05
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31. #25 invicta. dont know about the rest of the world.......
ari   (12.17.07)
but you sure are stupid!!!!!!!!
32. Nos. 1 & 9 correct
(12.17.07)
33. No worries, Richard from London
(12.17.07)
The Islamists and their destructive ilk won't neglect you.
34. #4 Karen
Ephraim ,   Diaspora   (12.17.07)
Read the Prophets Karen. They will answer your question "when."
35. Why dont you get it from your rich Arab neigbors?
David ,   Boston, USA   (12.17.07)
Oh yeah, because they really dont care about you. You get more help from Israel than anyone else. Its time you fend for yourselves and stop stealing money from the rest of the world.
36. #28
Richard ,   London UK   (12.17.07)
About $2.9bn in grants and aid are routinely awarded each year to Israel from the US alone. Since 1949 the U.S. has given Israel a total of $83.205 billion. The interest costs borne by U.S. tax payers on behalf of Israel are $49.937 billion, thus making the total amount of aid given to Israel since 1949 $133.132 billion. This may mean that U.S. government has given more federal aid to the average Israeli citizen in a given year than it has given to the average American citizen.
37. #28 Begging
Invicta ,   Europa   (12.17.07)
Israel's GDP is 142,250 (USD) That puts it below Britain at 2,398,946 and Italy at 1,852,585 and Ireland at 219,368 and Spain at 1,231,733 All four of those European countries have contributed a very large share of immigrants to the U.S., yet none has organized an ethnic group to lobby (or beg) for U.S. foreign aid. Instead, all four send funds and volunteers to do economic development and emergency relief work in other less fortunate parts of the world.
38. #13 - Let them take responsibility for once.
(12.17.07)
39. #25, your posts are always pathetic
Danny   (12.17.07)
At least Richards have the some basis in fact. Yours are pure unadultered BS. The rockets are no longer home made, they need to buy explosives, pay for transport, pay support networks, buying anti-aircraft and anti-tank missiles etc. When does the EU give "billions" to Israel? How does the EU "support Israel financially"? As for your fantasies about Palestinians and arabs "if only they had the weaponry", newsflash they did in 1948 - better armed - 1956 - better armed - 1967 - better armed - 1969 - same level - 1973 - better armed and guess what each and every case they got their arses kicked.
40. #31
Invicta ,   Europa   (12.17.07)
Great contribution to the debate, an insult. You forgot to deal the anti -semite card, always the bastion of the loser.
41. #39
Invicta ,   Europa   (12.17.07)
When have the Palestinians had an army or been better armed? And the rockets are 'home-made' which is why there are hardky any casualties, unlike the daily quotient of Palestinians who are killed by US made weapons. The billions that the civilised world is going to donate to try and help the Palestinians (and therefoe israel) will not be spent on what you claim - especially as a guerilla army costs nada and anyway it pales in comparison to subsidies Israel receives.
42. If life were fair....
herb glatter ,   pittsburgh, pa, usa   (12.17.07)
use these enormous amounts of money to settle the "Palestinians" from Gaza, Judea, Sameria and Israel to their rightful home in (Trans)Jordan as originally intended
43. Richard and Invicta
Jellybean ,   Chicago   (12.17.07)
I can understand your point..however I am a taxpayer I do not want my money to go to begging palis..for Israel I don't mind why? because they are a true friend..and I don't see an Israeli killing innocent americans in a terrorist act, unlike the palis who hate Americans.Let the palis work for their money just like I do. Also Richard the US spends more on the average American citizen than they do in Israel. Unless you are here YOU don't know and please don't tell me about you living in Texas and your family blah blah blah..If you count Public Aid, grants, child support enforcement etc.. as well as other TANF programs it adds up.
44. Invicta Please
Jellybean ,   Chicago   (12.17.07)
Every country has a lobby you mentioned Britian they have BP lobbiest. Just because you don't hear that they beg does not mean they do. The palis do not appreciate anything you give them..yet they expect it. They need to get off their ass and make changes..changes in their government as well as socially. Do I pity them NO. They chose to live the way they do so be it. No Sympathy here...try knocking on someone else's door.
45. The world is obsessed with creating an apartheid state
Larry ,   Eastbourne, UK   (12.17.07)
The donors know their money will be used for waging the terror war against Israel, and that is their aim. They are knowingly, wilfully and deliberately funding terrorism. Europeans, not satisfied with having murdered six million, have never got over their failure to eradicate the whole Jewish people. Antisemitism has always been the key driver of EU policy towards Israel. The existence and success of Israel against all odds is bitter gall to the Europeans, not least to the British former colonial occupiers and oppressors. The bankrolling is nothing to do with "humanitarianism" at all. The humanitarian catastrophe of Israeli civilians being subject to constant terror attacks has been consistently ignored. Furthermore, there are far more worthy humanitarian causes worldwide than the outrageous obsession with creating an apartheid "Palestinian" state. But then starving Africans, for example, do not murder Jews, do they? The feeble government of Israel should be demanding that the donor states pay reparations to Israel for the terrorism they have funded, and that all aid to the Palestinians be halted until there is a permanent end to terrorism.
46. #19, Dick you need to start reading some primary sources
Danny   (12.17.07)
and stop relying on hopelessly incompetent and biased secondary sources. Most are available online, there should be NO excuse for repackaging this crap. Military assistance - ie US indirect subsidy to it's military manufacturers for the entire existance of Israel is 105bn USD - accounting for inflation - out of total aid of 162bn. To put this in perspective that is less than one year in Iraq and the economic aid is roughly the same as South Korea post-war and roughly the same as the UK received between 46-52. This is without the savings in having the US providing a nuclear umbrella and making up most of NATO. "The congressional research" is probably this document: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/IB85066.pdf It makes a claim that loan guarantees cost roughly 4% of face value. The real cost - as shown by the cost of buying default protection in the market - is 0.3%, so if you are talking about 100 million loan guarantee you are really giving 30million USD. Hence why people making your point tend to discuss face value and not cost as I think talking about how loan guarantees to Israel costs "tens of millions" of dollars doesn't have the same ring now does it. As for the claims about loans vs grants, Israel has made payments of 62bn USD in interest payments in the last decade - http://www.bankisrael.gov.il/deptdata/mehkar/doch06/eng/pe_6.pdf. Maybe you are confusing us with Africa and South America, both of whom have regularly defaulted on "loans", yet STILL receive them. One then has to ask what Israel has given in return. Of the military stuff we know about, some quick examples: 1) Gave the US the full speech of Khruschev's anti-Stalin speech. 2) Regularly gave US access to the latest Russian weaponry along with the countermeasures to defeat them - which came in handy in the two gulf wars, Yugoslavia, Vietnam etc. 3) beta-tested US weaponry against the latest USSR weaponry. One quick example Israel developed the countermeasures against the Soviet air-defence systems that cost one third of the IAF in 1973. Now 1/3 of the US airforce in 1990 would have been alot more than 100bn.
47. There can never be separate Arab polity west of the Jordan!
Uzi ,   Haifa   (12.17.07)
The Arabs of Western Eretz Yisrael have consistently demonstrated that they are incapable of surviving unaided or ruling themselves, especially at the national polity level. They have never exercised their inherent right of self determination and now they expect others to determine and create for them that Mickey Mouse "state" which will never be. They constantly kill and steal from each other and lie to themselves, each other and the rest of the world. They never miss any opportunity to make atrocious choices and mistakes and they are incapable of sustaining and providing for themselves; they depend on others for everything. How on earth will they ever make it?
48. The Arabs must make very painful concessions for real peace!
Uzi ,   Haifa   (12.17.07)
The Arabs of the Land of Israel consistently demonstrate that they don't want, can't make and won't maintain real peace. They do want, however, to weaken Israel by gaining territory without 'giving' anything tangible. They ignore that "possession is nine tenths of the law" and that it's rather the Arabs who should come forward and spell out what they offer Israel in return for what they want. They also pretend not to get it that in this case "land for peace" is both immoral and unworkable. The Arabs had used the 'territories' to threaten, pester and attack Israel before we took these territories in self defence. They continue to plan, prepare and perpetrate genocide against Israel and pretend not to see that it would be suicide for Israel to concede anything in response to their threats and aggressive action. The Arabs must realize that the only way toward peace is that rather they themselves should offer, accept and be convincingly satisfied with 'painful' compromises.
49. #36
Natan ,   USA   (12.17.07)
First, Richard, don't you worry about the American tax payer!!! Israel is NOT the only counrty who is getting aid from the US. Most who read your comments are intelligent to know the diferrence between aid to Israel and the welfare payments to the Palestinians. Unlike the Palestinians, Israel can account for EVERY single penny received!!!Can't say this about the Palis right??? Ironically, if not for being surrounded by 22 Arab countires that continuously try to eliminate Israel, i wonder if any aid would have been needed to begin with. Also, Richard, you ommited, very conveniently, the fact that large amounts of money is being loaned and Israel is paying back EVERY penny and never defaulted on it's financial obligations!!!
50. shamefull
David Powell ,   Everett, Wa. USA   (12.17.07)
The fact that my country gave 550 million to the Palestian authority is shameful
51. Money for PA
Edith ,   USA   (12.17.07)
It's interesting how Israel destroys things and the world has to pay to put it all back together.. Hmmm something's wrong with that picture..it's happened so often..Seems like a racket to me..
52. To Dick (I mean Richard) from UK
Simon ,   Londonstan, UK   (12.17.07)
Did you ever bother to research how much of the aid to Israel from the US is in the form of loans? Last I checked, a loan means that you have to pay it back. Why dont you go to some other sources for your "research" besides islamo-leftist talking point websites?
53. This farce must end
Frank ,   Canada   (12.17.07)
Israel must work to expel this bunch of terrorist lovers from the ME. The so-called international community has created a new version of the oil for food program, it's called money for blood.
54. # 27 Richard UK
(12.17.07)
Richard everyone knows Fatah was/is corrupt, including the Arabs. I don't recall Jews ever agreeeing with what was written in Der Strumer, do you?
55. #41, when you are in a hole best to stop digging
Danny   (12.17.07)
"Guerrilla army costs nada"? The mujahidden in Afghanistan cost well over 20bn USD during the space of less than eight years. The North Vietnamese were aided by billions from China and Russia. The contras got hundreds of millions from the US etc etc. "guerrilla warfare" may be many things but weapon of the "weak" it is not and certainly not that of the "poor". There are "hardly any casualties" because Sderot has an early warning system and Israel has built bunkers for it's civilians. Note that per missile, Hizbollah's rockets were only twice as lethal yet I don't remember anyone dismissing them. In 2007 to date over 70% of all Palestinians killed have been people "killed whilst actively taking part in hostilities". To date 0% of the Israelis killed by qassams have been soldiers. Palestinians had an army that was better equipped in December1947 until April 1948. They still lost despite having killed the equivalent of 8100 Palestinians[roughly twice the number of Palestinians killed in the second intifada] in those 5 months. How has "helping the Palestinians" EVER helped Israel?
56. #40, actually calling you merely "stupid" is a compliment
Danny   (12.17.07)
57. Equitable and practicable Partition Plan that may work:
Uzi ,   Haifa   (12.17.07)
Israel should let Hamas to depose Abbas and smash Fatah, also in Judea and Samaria, on their way to abolish the PA and wipe it off the world map and consciousness. Then Israel should get rid of Hamas. This will open the way for the Kingdom of Jordan to take charge as the only viable nation state of all the Arabs of Greater Palestine. Having got rid of the PA and Hamas, Israel and Jordan should agree on the border between them in Judea and Samaria and maybe cede Gaza to Egypt that would sort it out quite smartly. Everybody, Jews and Arabs, should continue to live in peace where they are and nobody should move from their homes or land. Israelis who would thus become residents of the Kingdom of Jordan should be given rights and conditions like the Arabs in Israel.
58. Edith what is the difference?
Jellybean ,   Chicago   (12.17.07)
The Arabs destroy and kill their own and the US has to pay for it. Stop blaming Israel and the US for the worlds problems. Arabs kill Arabs and have hate and no tolerance for others. If these are values that you hold dear I suggest for you to live in Saudi..perhaps that would open your eyes.
59. Hamas will get a cut, its not any secret
Steven ,   San Francisco   (12.17.07)
at least a cool $100M to fund their apparatus of repression, and fear, and maybe $50M to fund their terrorists, and rockets, etc.
60. #46, schoolboy error in this TB
Danny   (12.17.07)
0.3% of 100 million is 300,000... not 30 million. oops. Make the point stronger. The market cost of these guarantees probably tops out in the low tens of millions. Or for a country whose government expenditure is in the trillions, insignificant.
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