Opinion
Force does work
Jackie Levy
Published: 22.12.07, 15:06
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34 Talkbacks for this article
1. Force is the real peace process
Frank ,   Canada   (12.22.07)
Weakness creates war and terror.
2. fire
(12.22.07)
the palis real hot, show them what we're made of! go idf!!!
3. I've always hated Beilin
Zionist ,   America   (12.22.07)
He says "Good Morning" and I already disagree with him.
4. When VICTORY Is NOT A Doctrine
Adina Kutnicki ,   US   (12.22.07)
Good article, but I would not get overjoyed just yet. There is ALOT more firepower to let loose. In fact, the citizens of S'derot are STILL terrorized, and that is because there is NO clear policy - that IF one rocket lands on Jewish towns, then said offending town will be BLANKETED with missile attacks. Further, I have not heard the MAIN word missing from the IDF's vocabulary - VICTORY. Until they task the soldiers to aim for that, and only that, then Jews will be living in terror. Further, since the military intelligence knows where the terror masters are hiding they have NO excuse to let them live another day. It seems to me that the leadership is playing a criminal and cynical game of cat and mouse with its Jewish citizens. That they will let them be terrorized, until it becomes politically impossible not to respond. These Israeli leaders are VERY vile and must be removed.
5. To sum up: we need a new forceful and willful leadership
Moshe   (12.22.07)
6. Was it a rocket scientist who came to this conclusion?
Jack ,   San Diego, USA   (12.22.07)
7. Beat some sense into them
Petra ,   usa   (12.22.07)
and don't stop until all the rocket launchers are gone.
8. Barriers,daily&nightly raids,good intelligence,targetassinat
Alan ,   SA   (12.22.07)
9. Brilliant Article
Sandy ,   Canada   (12.22.07)
The Arabs and Hamas only understand brute force. The kind of force that pits a lion against a mouse. I am glad that Israel is teaching Iran that lesson too. The only thing a Jew can ever understand is force. Iran has to deal with Israel only through this force. A Jew obviously can never be reasoned with.
10. Force does work?
Cameron ,   USA   (12.22.07)
Damn you, Mr. Levy. You throw that fundamental ME reality on the sands, and now you have my gentle Progressive brethren weeping, wringing their hands, and endlessly running in circles. How dare you broach the truth.
11. The policy and its flawless execution are wonderful.
Andy ,   ramat hasharon   (12.22.07)
12. i hope all the fools like bellin be out
reuven ,   usa   (12.22.07)
of goverment soon.
13. If 20 dead terrorist get Hamas begging for a Hudna, What wil
Squalid Ibn Harman ,   Qtir   (12.22.07)
If 20 dead terrorist get Hamas begging for a Hudna, What will 2000, 20000 or more accomplish? 1. Shalit, Goldvasser, and Regev's return. 2. No more Qassam rockets. 3. Change in Hamas's charter and movement towards some kind of peaceful coexistance. 4. ?
14. FORCE IS WONDERFUL?
ISHMAEL ISHMAEL ,   TORONTO CANADA   (12.22.07)
Hmmm. I believe that the Resistance that is firing against the Occupation Closure of Gaza shares your Basic Beliefs and that Sederot is either an eye or a tooth. May the Wisdom of the Lord prevail.
15. With the Arabs there are always military solutions and never
Uzi ,   Haifa   (12.23.07)
diplomatic ones. Peace with Egypt and Jordan was the result of military subjugation.
16. Of course force works. It's been
Che Vive ,   Ghetto Beach, U.S.A.   (12.23.07)
used to great effect against people for centuries. Hitler used it very effectively against the Jewish people until it was even more effectively used against him. But it has no basis in morality, and proves nothing except who is more capable of violence. You might also consider examining the collective psyche of your people following the Holocaust to see the aftereffects it can have upon the victims potentially for generations. Of course, by advocating the use of coercion, you advocate a dog-eat-dog world in which your own people's past and potential future victimization is fully justified. After all, all forms of violence can be rationalized this way. It's just a matter of eliminating civilized behavior from your argument. And a very stale argument it is, having been advanced by every murderous cur in history whenever they felt like killing someone (or more likely, having someone else do the killing for them). As a side note, generally people who make such vulgar arguments also loathe the poor and homeless... after all, such a mentality demands that anyone weaker than oneself be viewed with contempt, and is consistent with the general ideology of "social Darwinism".
17. #14 Ishmael - Inta Mazbut. Alla Ma'ana Fee Kul Lurha
Squalid Ibn Harman ,   Qtir   (12.23.07)
Alla Ma'ana fee kul Lurha! Hashem Itanu be'chol Safa! Gott ist mitt uns ins alle sprache! G-d is with us in all languages! Dir Balak Ishmael
18. Force is no miracle even if it works
Gilad ,   London UK   (12.23.07)
The IDF has degraded from it's constant military usage. Regular patrols, checkpoints, routine arrests have caused massive increase in service avoidance and the standard going so low that we failed to even get drinking water to soldiers 10km in to Lebanon in 2006 or give coherent orders. What the few Gaza moves have shown is that, in short bursts, the army can produce the results and can make a big difference. To make a conclusion that the army can do this indefinately 24/7 365 for decades to come is incorrect though. A solid military plan can be (sometimes) very successful, but constant never-ending operations are doomed to have mediocre results and result in massive increases in depression, trauma to the soldiers (And avoidance amongst the population). Thats why people enlisted during the Lebanon war but increased avoidance during the intifada. So really we end up where we started. Those who think only force gets results look at this as proof and ignore the rest, those who say it will fail will simply wait until the next massive loss for Israel (longer range rockets - ashkelon/ashdod, suicide attack, whatever else) and say "see, we only got worse in the big picture". What we need is to use our resources smartly. Abuse = failure, even if it takes years to show up. Stop taking such strong lines on the armies ability. Everyone seems to be so obsessed either on tzahal will solve this with force side or on the tzahal can never provide us absolute security, only cause the enemy to get smarter later on.
19. Force is all they understand.....
Johnson ,   USA   (12.23.07)
Islam is built on this concept, and the jihadi doctrine is based on it.
20. Force and Peace
zvi ,   LA, USA   (12.23.07)
The siccess of the IDF again demonstartes the truth of the concept of PAX ROMANA -- that is a Roman Peace built on the force of the Roman arms What we need in Gaza is PAX HEBRAICA -- that is a Hebrew Peace built on the force of Hebrew arms Netzach Yisrael
21. pashoot meod
alan ,   cape lookout   (12.23.07)
right on bro
22. you had me until you penned the lines "Beilin's Wisdom"
aaron ,   ra'anana   (12.23.07)
what wisdom? what was so wise about a doctrine which one sentence earlier you described as "losing its grip on reality"
23. Adina, I agree with you.
AK   (12.23.07)
24. Those who eat, and those who get eaten, #16?
Cameron ,   USA   (12.23.07)
Che, of all people, was an enthusiatic supporter of such violent methods. Start using your grey matter instead of automatically reaching into the Progressive Box.
25. No.2 - fire
Rozz   (12.23.07)
Indeed number 2..........I say fight fire with fire. throw in flame throwers and watch the bog-worms run.
26. Moralilty? Earth to #16
Stuart ,   Planet Earth   (12.24.07)
#16 thinks morality means Jews must let others kill Jews with impunity, otherwise Jews are like Nazis? Very easy to say when the streets are not flowing with the blood of your loved ones. Morality comes from Torah. Morality is kill or be killed. Morality is defeating the enemy. Morality is NOT turning the other cheek or negotiating one's own destruction.
27. "Force does work".. Hitler 1939
Peter Morris ,   New Zealand   (12.24.07)
More and more the treatment of Palestinians by the Jewish state resembles Germany's treatment of Jews in the thirties and forties. Two of the worlds most distinguished elder statesmen i.e. Nelson Mandela and Jimmy Carter have said that the same thing about Israel's aparthied nature. The daily killing on a daily basis of Palestinians is one of the most gruesome sights in the world today. High time it was stopped.
28. FORCE
SAM ,   USA   (12.24.07)
TO #27 THERE IS ONLY THIS POSIBILITY IN WAR. YOU KILL ,YOU DIE OR YOU SURRENDER. YOUR''SENIOR STATESMEN CARTER'' SURRENDED. THE ISLAMISTS SMELLED BLOOD AND WE HAD 9-11.
29. #27
(12.24.07)
the daily rocket launches and the daily plans of suicide bombings in israel and the daily targeting og kasaams into israeli cities and kindergardens and civilian population in our jewish homeland is one of the most gruesome sights in the world today. high time it was stipped. guess what peter morris? the idf just managed to stop it. on another note....carter? a distinguished statesman? he's the worst president the usa ever had in whose time america suffered many defeats as well as damaged usa economy and allowed al qaida to prosper and act as well as iran to kidnap and keep american citizens prisoners for years. carter, the dumbest president in usa history and an antisemite to boot. do you read? well, if you do....carter, the only president who said..."when i get elected, i sm going to fuck the jews" nice, ha? carter, whose organization is funded strictly by saudi dollars and arab money to survive. carter, who is a well known anti israel and anti jew. carter, the most useless piece of human being ever born and who did zero for americans abroad and inside their country. peter, if you claim carter is a most distinguished member of our line of presidents, you must be the most unread, most infantile and most unintelligent person in the world. maybe too many sheep to herd, morris? not enough people in new zealand to talk to? your brain is in your bottom.
30. #27- Peter, you posturing NZ hypocrite
Cameron ,   USA   (12.24.07)
Considering the history of NZ was built on the murder & seizure of Maori people & lands by YOUR ancestors, and the fact that you & yours have always treated the Maori folk like liquid garbage, who the Hell are you to try and speak from some sort of percieved moral 'high-ground'??
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