Opinion
Should we retake Gaza?
Eitan Haber
Published: 14.01.08, 09:49
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42 Talkbacks for this article
1. THERE IS NO PEACE PROCESS, ONLY WAR
MOSHE ,   US   (01.14.08)
THE arubs SEND US BOMBS. WE AGREE TO TERRITORIAL CONCESSIONS & REPATRIATION OF THEIR arubs EMIGRE TERRORISTS. WAKE UP & KICK THE arubs OUT. GET MORE PEACE & SECURITY. MOSHE
2. U left out a few points
alan ,   Grenville Channel   (01.14.08)
the writer forgot to mention the infiltration of Al Qaeda into Gaza and the introduction of massive amounts of explosive materials smuggled under the noses and perhaps with a wink and a nod of the Egyptians. It is not a question, then, of whether but when.
3. tough call...
gedaliah   (01.14.08)
being that the pals in gaza are feeling the pressure, holding out another year may be good for us. If we go in on the other hand, we can hand it over to abbas. We would win either way. the pressure will lead to more tormoil and internal fighting (we win) and handing over to abbas will create a civil war (we also win) I now would like to wish both fatah and hamas much success against each other.
4. so... are you coming or not??
me ,   Gaza, Palestine   (01.14.08)
5. #2 - What infiltration AFTER disengagement?
Jonas ,   SAD   (01.14.08)
What are you talking about?! The holes were dug even when there was IDF in Gaza! Al Qaida had their men in Gaza 9 years ago, there was a big article here! Read a bit, eh?
6. Am assuming haber thinks this is a rhetorical question
Danny   (01.14.08)
There is one and only one reason no - and he zooms past it when discussing Lebanon War 2. The US - and only they really matter - will not allow us to carry out the operation needed to pacify Gaza to the level that the WB is. It will be a repeat with stop-start, with every single Palestinian magically a "civilian", with a worthless "guarantee" to plaster over a political failure. With a free hand, should we carry out a large-scale operation in Gaza? That would be a no brainer. But we don't have a free hand, like it or not we hitched ourselves to the US, in terms of arms, diplomatic cover and to a far lesser extent aid and whinning about Bush, US, "Eurarabia" and Arabs changes that. As for Haber's "no reasons", it almost goes without saying they are BS.
7. #5, yes but it was minimal
Danny   (01.14.08)
The Givati were forcing the tunnels to be less and less effective and more and more dangerous for the tunnel-goers. Guess what there is suicide bombing now but the fact is 3 people died from suicide bombing in the whole of 2007 and 130 in March 2002. By your logic we shouldn't have bothered with Defensive Shield. I mean if it isn't perfect why bother, right?
8. #4, depends... your sister as friendly as ever?
Danny   (01.14.08)
9. to me 4 gaza
me ,   here   (01.14.08)
it must be no difference .if they will or if they will
10. We can win without any losses.
Squalid Ibn Harman ,   Qtir   (01.14.08)
We don't need to send in and risk Israeli lives. We need to: 1, First get rid of Olmert (hopefully in a prisoner exchange) 2. Give an ultimatum for all Qassams and mortars to stop by a specific time. This should be widely publicized. 3. Give an ultimatum that Shalit is to be returned by the same time. 4. After the first post-deadline Qassam or mortar, cut off all electricity, gas, and water to Gaza. 5. Begin to indescriminately shell Gaza in return for the first Qassam or mortar after the deadline. 6. For every Qassam or mortar fired at us, we must return 100 cheap inaccurate rockets at the general location, if possible, in Gaza. Otherwise, anywhere in Gaza will also suffice. Terrorists have changed the rules of war for the 21st century and we must also adapt making the price they pay far too high.
11. I think the real question is...
David L.   (01.14.08)
Would the IDF really be able to win? You got over 20 000 terrorists (probably more) who will fight to death in overpacked "refugee camps", where the civilians have nowhere to go. This will not be like Defensive Shield where, with the mild exception of Jenin, the whole thing as more like a big police operation. Once the Hamas fighters withdraw in Jabalya or others, what will the IDF do? Clear house by house, in alleys that are about the size of a man? An what about the civilians? Will they flee to just another densely populated area full with terrorists? If the IDF is not willing to do that methodical cleanup - which means months of fighting, hundreds of casualties and thousands of dead civilians, then there is no point of invading. Not only the terrorists can fire their rockets from Jabalya, but as soon as the IDF will withdraw, we are going to be back to point 0. Alternatively, the IDF can stay there to try to minimize the rocket attacks. But that means an endeless occupation, which will eventually lead to the same situation that prevailed 3 years ago.
12. To #6 US greenlight
Frank ,   Canada   (01.14.08)
Israel must say them that it regards this operation as a test. If Bush wants to prevent Israel from destroying Hamas, all negociations should be stopped because what's going on in Gaza will happen in a WB terror state.
13. One more reason and a question
Shalom Freedman ,   Jerusalem Israel   (01.14.08)
This is a good article and the conclusion at the end of it seems to be that it probably is wiser not to go into Gaza again. But it leaves one question open. And that is the degree of danger to Israel which comes from not going in. i.e. The possibility that with time the Palestinian force along with the Hizbollah force in the north not to speak of Syria and the others might constitute an existensial danger. There may that is be a point where it is no longer right to allow the Palestinians to develop their military structure. And this when I do not know if such structure could be essentially limited by our ability to strike from 'outside'.
14. GAZA
marty ,   toronto canada   (01.14.08)
1. Don't invade. Set up automated inaccurate rocket system that automatically fires rockets back at Gaza everytime radar detects one fired at Sderot. 2. Give Gazans 3 months to find alternate electricity source(s) and cut the power. After all, how can an entity that "doesn't exist" be obligated to provide service. If the EU wants to send them portable power plants that's the EU's business. 3. Use a few "bunker buster" bombs destroy the smuggling tunnels.
15. you people are working to make sure there wil never be peace
(01.14.08)
it is so easy and simple , stop the occupation immediatly in the west bank and gaza , and some of you might say that we are out of gaza and there is no occupation there , but i will answer those who say so , this is what i mean by you never want peace , people in the srip are more occupied than ever before , no borders , no water , no electricity , no peace , no work , death everyday by your tanks , children , woman old people are getting killed everyday by your occupation army , stop the occupation now and the palestinians will never ask you for anything , they will start working , there economy will probably be better than yours in a few years , they will not need to buy anything from you , ( they have the whole world ) and they do not need you .and again i will say they will have a better life than most israelis will ever have . palestinians are hard working people and all they want is peace and not the jews do destroy there lives . and iam sure if they are left to live freely free , the jews will be embarased by there succes and how fast they acheved it . israelis are trying to let the world beleve that the palestinians are worth nothing and they cannot manage themselves without israel , well ,stop they occupation and let them prove to the world otherwise .
16. Israel isn't occupying Lebanon and the missiles have stopped
Sam ,   Canada   (01.14.08)
Israel should consider what made the missles from Lebanon stop.
17. ~10 - love the idea of getting rid of Olmert
(01.14.08)
in a prisoner exchange :))
18. not all gazza just philadelphia road
cordier   (01.14.08)
19. Maintain the status quo
Russel ,   Tlv   (01.14.08)
Continue the assassinations. I don't see the point of another war - it will show once again Israel doesn't keep its promises. We must maintain the moral upper hand. If Israel goes in; I go out (of the country). Not that anyone cares aval, mah, ani frier?
20. there's always carpet bombing
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (01.14.08)
who says you need to reoccupy in order to conquer? just declare war and have it. short of that, all of the known terrorist lairs can be flattened and the terror leadership can be aggressively targeted (since there is no shortage of gazans willing to rat them out for what they did last year). then, israel can get into a shelling contest with gaza if they want to continue the qassams. the issue is israel's will to stop it. but, as usual, israel will only wait until something really bad happens before responding. so take your free shots, gaza. just don't do too much damage and this can continue forever.
21. Israel has every right!!!
Joe ,   U.S.A   (01.14.08)
The Gaza Strip is Israeli territory. And they should take back whats theres. The IDF should not worry about how many men they will lose or how many casualties they will take because Israel has the strongest military in the middle east. And Israel needs to remeber that the Strip is a breeding ground for terrorists that want to destroy the Jewish State. They need to stop listening to what the UN wants and what the rest of the world wants. Israel must take care of Israel. Israel needs to take back whats theres, protect themselves and do it with forceful actions!
22. Shall we retake Gaza?
Milos ,   Serbia   (01.14.08)
I pray for my dear friends in Gaza Christian Community. They are victims of Hamas regime only, they are Christians Orthodox, as Serbs or Russians.
23. So what's your point, Danny #7?
Jonas ,   SAD   (01.14.08)
You say that the tunnels were less and less safe - yes, but they were multiplying! Remember that there was even a plan for making Phyladelphia a canal to prevent the inflation of Hamas holes? Your 2nd argument is self-standing one? O.K., you posted the numbers, but why? To prove that by pulling back from Gaza there is LESS shehid attacks? Yes, you are right - that is argument AGAINST reocupation. But I don't understand what side did you think I represent?
24. YOU CANNOT DECLARE WAR ON NON EXISTING STATE!
Jonas ,   SAD   (01.14.08)
That's the WHOLE POINT! That's one of the main reasons why Sharon made unilateral disengagement - Syria pulled their declaration that Palestines are Syrian (like before 1951). Hence - the attack on Palestines is NOT attack on Syria. Jordanians did the same. Therefor you have a legal nightmare: something-like-nation (Palestinians) living on a land that is not their, but was given to them, which they did not recognize, which other country occupied and clamed it her land, based on the fact that this land is not reconized by domicile nation and upon the scriptures of a book that is widely recognized as a true. And previous owners (Brits and French) never formaly gave that piece of land to the domicile nation since in the moment of giving - domicile nation was claming that they were not the domicile nation, but that they are some sort of super-entity ("Arabs, not Palestinians"). Is it puzzling? Yap. But that is a brief description of what is happening. So - since there is no defined and recognized state, there is NO declaration of war.
25. #23, erm no
Danny   (01.14.08)
There was less explosives, money and equipment coming through. The point isn't the number of tunnels but what comes through them and at what cost. PS the plan for the "canal" was AFTER withdrawal. How do you go from a straight line decrease in suicide bombings from the West Bank post re-occupation to "that is an argument AGAINST reoccupation"? I remember all the same arguments against reoccupying the West Bank - untold civilian casualties, untold IDF casualties, it won't stop the suicide bombing, there was suicide bombing from our areas so what will reoccupation do and guess what they were ALL wrong. Casualties were relatively low on both sides, suicide bombing dwindled to a trickle. So we have seen all these arguments trotted out before and they have always been wrong. Again I do reiterate my opposition to a large-scale operation in Gaza SOLELY because we will not have a free hand and will be allowed to cause enough chaos to hurt us but not enough to hurt the enemy - basically "Lebanon War 2 mk 2".
26. #24, who says you can't have your cake and eat it?
Danny   (01.14.08)
Israel said pretty much the same thing when taken to the ICJ over the wall, that the ICJ was to mediate over disputes between sovereign nations and the ICJ rejected this argument - although the non-muslim judges were very reticient about taking it on as shown in their judgements. However when it came to arguing against the wall, magically the Palestinians weren't a sovereign nation so the muslim judges felt this meant that "self-defence" didn't count in this case. Palestinians are a nation when at the UN - and obviously anyone who denies this is "racist" - and then magically not a nation when petitioning against Targeted Killings. The Jordanians didn't "pull their declaration" that the Palestinians "aren't" Jordanian, they tactically chucked the ball into Israel's court by saying the PLO was responsible for negotiations over the West Bank. In terms of beaucracy, WB is still part of Jordan. You don't get a stamp, you can't get a visa and you don't pay a fee to leave. Oh and all the maps show the WB as part of Jordan.
27. #15 only thing simple is you
Danny   (01.14.08)
and virtually every single word is false - the only thing that is vaguely true in my experience is that Palestinians do tend to be hard workers.
28. yep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
robert ,   farmington,wv   (01.14.08)
he11 yes take it back but dont give it back the next day keep it this time.!!!may the lord forever bless the state of israel
29. israel looking for trouble
donnie ,   nyc   (01.14.08)
as usual
30. Haber : why not economic warfare ?
moshe Israel ,   k.motzkin, Israel   (01.14.08)
Why is it that Eitan Haber has NOT even hinted at non-miltary action ? The population of Gaza is dependent upon Israel to suppiy electricity , fuel oil, water, and food. Israel is faced with using the IDF to attack Gaza miltarily with the inevitable deaths and casualties to our soldiers. Finally... perhaps to no avail. OR .... Using economic warfare without loss of life to Israelis ...at a PRICE : the reaction of the rest of the world to an Israeli blockade of of electrcity, water, fuel, even food . to Gaza. punish many , men, women, children for the sins of a few thousand Ham terrorists. A difficult decision. moshe Israel
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