have a look at this book, it helps understanding tsniout... http://www.amazon.com/Modesty-Adornment-Pesach-Eliyahu-Falk/dp/0873068742 ytzhak

Looking more and more like in Iran, Lybia, Irak, Soudan, Indonesia, Egypt,....just because we are cousins with the Arabs does not mean that we have to be as intolerant as some of the Islamic states...UNfortunately there are signs today that "orthodoxy" is becoming a danger to society and a factor of increased obscurantism, just like Iran became when the Shah was ousted and replaced by Nazislamists !!! because defiant displays of modesty, and separate buses, and a dress craze are not about modesty, it is simply about religious and cultural intolerance and can only lead to catastrophy.

If they are so worried about the proximity of men to their wives, it is only a matter of time before the orthodox disappear altogether.

Thanks to artificial insemination, there is no need to match women with men. You can even get clones of Baba Saleh.

Question: Is it true that some Jewish women wear headscarves? I thought that it was only Muslims? I saw a lot of them in the Jewish distric of Atwerpen (Belgium). Thanks!

These "students" must've learnt it in their settlements overlooking hamas areas. It sure isn't from the generation or two before who, on the whole, people agree were more happy to display modesty in both look and action. Today these sorts of acts from the religious every day alienate seculars. These people who intimidate people, or more correctly who have attacked women in the past for refusing to comply, should be jailed and banned from their synagogues. The religious community refuses to act, then it should accept its fate. You have to fight for your rights. Your rights get tested EVERY GENERATION.

And I grew up in Monsey in the 70's and 80's. What is happening today is ridiculous and this doesnt mean I'm advocating reform or conservative. The meaning of one being modern orthodox has morphed into something I dont recognize and I'm talking only 20 years ago. Craziness.

Kindly keep your opinions where they belong - in the garbage. Contrary to your opinion, halachah has not changed; it is awareness due to the fact that Torah literature is more accessible to the masses that people are being more stringent. A generation ago in the States the "average Orthodox man in the street" did not know what the laws of modesty were all about. Today, very learned Rabbis have published books, quoting Talmud and Shulchan Oruch, showing us what the laws are. Mixed seating used to be a "given" until more young men started spending the majority of their day in learning, and discovered that there are rules for this too. Are we like Muslims? Think about it - we are definitely not suicide bombers, and we do not kill or despise anyone who does not believe what we do, nor are our women second-class citizens, but guess what - Islam came from Judaism. Many of their rules come from Torah - they have interpreted them differently.

Jaap, In Ultra Orthodox circles and in some Modern Orthodox circles, Jewish women cover their hair either fully or partially, either with a wig or with a scarf.

I WONDER IS IT IN ISRAEL OR GAZA .

Yes, some Jewish women keep their hair covered at all times in public. The women who do so are mostly Orthodox. This being said, however, not all Orthodox women cover their hair, and, by and large, non-Orthodox Jewish women do not cover their hair. The real determining factor in a woman covering her hair and how she covers her hair is the rules of the community she affiliates with.

Stick to matters that matter instead of writting about nothing. Nothing to deflect attention away from the core issues, like Olmert giving away your very lives. Be a responsible journalist instead of being a quackmeister.

their hair. But some take it to the extreme and wear another woman's hair on her head in the form of a wig. Wonder which god told her to do that.

link jewish orthodox to Muslim orthodox is a clear indication that they understand neither. this is the way of our social fanatics. you want your world view pressed on everybody else. Abortion. gays. affirmative action. and your not afraid to use incorrect or illogical metaphors to make a slovenly point. So what if the orthodox want their genders split on the bus. this question has been banged around since the beginning of public transportation. however it is only recently they are able to actually get their way. however your disregard for anything alien to you is twice as vehement and three times as cruel as most orthodox ppl i know.

They are becoming a bizarre sect of religious crazies & moving to extremes of behavior & belief that are basically un-Jewish. Perhaps this has the same basis as the Islamic voyage to lunacy, a fear of modernity coupled with the type of conformity associated with totalitarian ideologies.

bashing the orthodox. look, you might not agree with the way the dress or how they behave, maybe i don't either, but why does there always have to be an article against the orthodox here? why does it bother you so much? is there a lack of real news to write about?

Dear Uri, if you are so concerned about the Orthodox "losing their way" why not publish your article in "Mishpacha" or "Yated Neeman"? The fact that you choose YNet to complain about modesty restrictions shows that this is just another YNet dump-as-usual on the Haredim.

and what do I do when I take the girl bus and some chick pinches me?

"why does it bother you so much? " ... because, when I visit Israel, do not like being physically assulted and verbally insulted by the so called "orthodox" - aka rude bully boys who try to impose their medieval sexist ideology on others.

Thanks a lot for the replies!

I'm generally not into airing the laundry in this type of format, but the bus issue needs to be told because it is being forceably spread to communities that don't agree to it -- mine being among them. There is a strong push to bring these separate busses -- and no, there is NOT a halachah demanding it in the slightest -- into neighborhoods where it has not only not been requested but is entirely unwanted. It would be good if those pushing these issues would work on making their insides (thoughts, actions) as kosher and they're forcing others to do on the outsides. This is being written by an orthodox woman who is sick of standing, pregnant and holding a toddler, on a public bus!

A great sage Who authored many books include those on Halacha in which he deals with this subject and also a book specifically for the Jewish Woman. All are welome to disagree as a matter of personal opinion, but that is not an excuse to expouse ignorance on the matter of modesty which is tied in to religious law and traditions.

Chareidi media are refined with ethical values and moral standards unlike Secular media is full of slander and hate and always fault finding of Religious Jews, esp. Chareidim. What a low self-esteem these seculars have. To prove it, YOU WOULD NEVER FIND ARTICLES AGAINST SECULAR JEWS IN CHAREIDI NEWSPAPERS like Yated or Hamodia.

We are not talking of orthodox in general, like the ones you mention, but of some hareidim in particular

That "holier than thou " attitude of having to join the humra club at any prize- is becoming a religion unto itself I sometimes wonder who is more reforming than whom these days -go figure I go though Meah Shearim every single day, to catch my second bus. And it's getting out control, I'm telling you - doesn't look good btw i'm orthodox myself

Ironic that's what he says about Orbach here. No, Mr. Pee, there is nothing slanderous or hateful about speaking out against religious extremism enforced on the unwilling with no basis in Jewish law. That's all he's saying. And you have to be blind or a fool not to see that happening in Israel. Stoning buses, burning, rioting, smashing internet cafes. Haredi gangs of thugs did all of that in Jerusalem in the last year alone. There is nothing hateful toward religious Jews by harshly condeming these acts.

God forbid that they should have to sit next to an unclean woman. What doesn't worry these people however is to break the most basic of the 10 commandments about stealing and murder. I guess for them (with the notable and honoured exception of the Naturei Karta, the Palestinians aren't people so their is no problem in their purer than pure minds.

Why are you so bothered by how others chose to live their lives? Take a deep breath and relax. The changes they make really wont affect you - so go back to your computer start researching the next meaningless topic you will right about

This is actually news. From a humble journalist's perspective -- this is relevant. Why? Because it affects people's lives. End of story. And in my opinion, Uri is right. This is not about modesty but about power and influence and wanting people to live up to someone else's standard of religiosity. Guess what - Rashi's daughters laid t'fillin, something strictly reserved for men in ultra-religious circles. And because of these fanatics, despite being a god-fearing and upright Jewish woman, I would be afraid for my physical well being to put t'fillin on at, say, the kotel. And that is sad.

Uri, you're preaching to the choir as they say. If you want to make some points, get some interviews with rabbinical leaders and get them to make a pesak and stop this nonsense. I hear there's a town somwhere in the mercaz where the men and women have to walk on different sides of the street! It's getting totally out of hand.