Who’s the real fascist?
Asaf Wohl
Published: 29.01.08, 10:28
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31. #30 - Yaakov, I really don't know what to say to you...
Joe ,   Los Angeles, CA   (01.30.08)
1) The modern State of Israel is the fruit of Zionism. Zionism is merely the desire to have a Jewish state in the geographical region of Eretz Yisrael. What you are telling me by saying that you are anti-Zionist but not anti-Israel is, logically speaking, akin to saying that you aren't anti-American, but are anti-Patriot (as differentiated from being anti-Loyalist). Your understanding of cause and its relation to effect could stand to be improved upon. 2) In a Muslim state, non-Muslims never get equal rights with Muslims. Have you ever read the Qur'an or the Ahadith? Have you ever studied Sharia? Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians are allowed to live only as second class citizens and are forced to pay up to 50% of their income in taxes for the 'right' to practice their religion. All other religious minorities must either convert to Islam or be executed. Your idea of a Muslim state with equal rights for non-Muslims has no basis in reality. 3) In a Muslim state with a justice system with any resemblance to Sharia, the penalty for homosexuality is execution. Jordan, Israel, and Iraq are the only countries in the Middle East where being homosexual is not a crime. Israel is the only country in the Middle East that acknowledges same-sex marriages as being valid: the only caveat being that they must be performed outside of Israel. If this Muslim Palestine you dream of ever comes to fruition, your lifestyle will be a crime, punishable by death. 4) Let me say this again. As a believer in Jesus, Ribbi Yehoshua, Yeshua, or whatever you want to call him, you set yourself on the other, non-Jewish, side of a 2000 year old ideological rift from the perspective of Jewish law. Your conversion is not considered valid in Israel because Humanitarian Judaism is not considered a valid Jewish movement by the Israeli government. Also, from the perspective of ideology, Catholicism maintains that the ideas maintained in the 'Old Testament' were nullified by Jesus' death on the cross are therefore not binding on Christians, which goes entirely against even the fundamentals of Humanistic Judaism. Are you being 100% intellectually honest with yourself, Yaakov? All in all, Yaakov, I really don't know what to say to you. You reject Jewish tradition with the one hand while claiming to embrace it with the other. Your ideal of a Muslim 'Palestine' with equal rights for all flies in the face of history, fact and logic. If I were you, I would stay in NYC and devote myself to causes that I had a little more knowledge in instead of bashing the only country in the Middle East that at least recognizes my marriage as being valid (heck, the USA doesn't even do that!!).
32. firstly let me congratulate ynet for a good article
jack bauer   (01.30.08)
I was pleasantly surprised by how much of a straight shooter the writer turned out to be
33. secondly, let me apologize to all jews for #3
jack bauer ,   I'm sorry   (01.30.08)
this dumb broad insults the jewish people.....she is out of touch with reality, and obviously has no idea what really happened during the war in Nederland She does not represent either me, nor most of my countrymen..... she sounds like she has been corrupted by living with too many moslems around her..... an unfortunate situation many in my country find themselves forced into My grandfather helped jewish people during and after the war, and what he saw happen, even in Holland, made him turn into a zionist at heart. He knew that the Israelites must be able to return to Israel without let or hinderance. as for #21 the mayor of amsterdam is Mr. Cohen so really lets not pretend all Holland is Judenrein, although the moslem population wants that to be the case. Its only a matter of time at this rate. Anyhow, please accept my heartfelt apology for the nonsense written here by scum who also unfortunately hail from my tiny moslem infested country
34. #30 - Yaakov, BTW, I don't think you're Irish, here's why...
Joe ,   Los Angeles, CA   (01.30.08)
'Yaakov', something tells me you're not Irish. Let me explain my hunch... You wrote "because I am Catholic believer in Jehoshua"- you forgot an article; an indefinite article to be exact. You also wrote "I am also not recognized by Rabbinate"- you forgot an article here as well; a definite article. These are not major mistakes, but they are mistakes made by people whose native language is a non-Western European language. My guess is that your native language is either a Slavic language or a Semitic language. My Jewish, Israeli girlfriend, however, has no problems with articles both indefinite and definite, and during the many times I've been to Israel, I've never heard these mistakes being made. I would venture to say that you are either an Arab posing as an Irish Catholic or a Slav posing as an Irish Catholic. Either way, you are not an Irish Catholic and your last name is definitely not Sullivan. Better luck next time, Ahmed...
35. Stern Gang Collaboration
Abu Sous ,   Chicago, USA   (01.30.08)
Since you are quick to remind people of how Mufti visited Hitler, may be it is worth while to state how Stern terror gang approach the 3rd Rich for alliance against the British Mandate. Easily you can find such a document on google. Abu al-Sous
36. Joe intolerance of gays, Catholics, actors
Yaakov Sullivan ,   NYC   (01.30.08)
Joe, just because I am gay and support Paleatinian couse you can't discriminate me this way. This is exactly the point. When rabbi says I am not a Jew, what does it mean? If you believe in Jehoshua our saviour you can still be a good Jew if you keep kosher and believe in humanity. Even Pope Joulius the Fifth was a good Jew, however he was hidden in Vatican. My husband Hassan wanted me to become Muslim, but I will never betray my faith. This is the reason I feel hart when people don't respect my devotion to the prinsiples of Catholisism and Jewishness. I don't think you undersand why I am so persistent about one state solution in Palestine. I think Jews don't need their own state, since Jewish religion is only spiritual, nor physical as Catholisism. We Jews don't need a country to be called Jews. Everything else is commentary as Shakespear said in one of his plays.
37. To Mr. A. Wohl. A Very Revealing Angle.
Maansingh ,   The Netherlands   (01.30.08)
Quote :"Why does MK Zahalka agree to receive a salary from the fascist Israeli government ?" You have given us here a NOVEL angle of vision. AND it is a very revealing angle. MK Zahalka should be ashamed of his behaviour towards Israel -- which is very, very, very destructive. IF Zahalka is not ashamed -- then there is something very, very, very wrong with this man. SUCH an ungrateful person can NOT be a good person -- neither towards his family, nor towards his community, nor towards the country !!! THANKS for your article.
38. Leftist hypocrasy
B. Landau ,   USA   (01.30.08)
It always amuses me when I read how Israeli Leftists run to support the right of Israeli Arabs to commit treason. These same Leftists are fast to call Israel racist & criticize Israel. They indeed give aid & comfort to the enemy. Yet these very same Leftists are silent regarding the homophobic, anti-women, anti-democratic, religiously intolerant nature of Arab society & culture. They are silent in the face of the many cases of honor killing of the victims of rape by the Arab parents.
39. #36 - Ahmed Sullivan, cut the BS...
Joe ,   Los Angeles, CA   (01.30.08)
Ahmed... 1) Your talk about 'discrimination' and 'intolerance' are ad hominem, red herring arguments and beyond these two sentences, I refuse to answer to them. Refute the facts and logic I use to justify my position and engage in meaningful debate with me, otherwise concede defeat. 2) A non-Jew cannot keep kosher unless he/she eats every meal in a kosher restaurant. In order for silverware and china to be kosher, they must be owned by a Jew and be immersed in a mikveh after purchasing them from a non-Jew. This is called tevila. If you were, in fact, an observant Jew, I wouldn't have to explain this to you. Nevertheless, you are merely an impostor and it warrants an explanation. 2) The punishment for homosexuality in Islam is death by execution. What don't you understand about this? Your husband couldn't possibly have asked you to convert to Islam unless he was keeping your relationship on the "down low". It's pretty hard to keep a gay marriage on the "down low", however, especially in a tight-knit Muslim community. If you're going to lie, lie better next time. 3) As regards my perceived lack of respect for your devotion to the "prinsiples of Catholisism and Jewishness", maybe people would take you seriously when you started using proper English when describing your beliefs. The correct terms are Catholicism and Judaism. Also, it's pretty hard to respect people's beliefs when their beliefs form a logical impossiblity. How can a person believe that Mashiach came 2000 years ago while simultaneously believing that Mashiach hasn't come yet? It's like saying Mahdi came back from that crevice 500 years ago while saying that Mahdi still has yet to come back from that crevice. These are the beliefs of a person who rejects logic. 4) As regards you not thinking I "undersand" why you are so persistent about a one-state solution, I don't think you "undersand" Islam, Palestinian Nationalism and how they both treat homosexuals and religious minorities. Reread post 31, points 2 and 3. 4) As regards why the Jews don't need a country to be called Jews, couldn't I also argue that the Palestinians don't need a country to be called Palestinians? After all, the Palestinians never once had a country to begin with, yet they are still called Palestinians. Yes, you read that right, Ahmed, there never was a country named Palestine. Sum and total, Ahmed, you are an imposter. End your 'taqiyyeh' and give up your career in cyber-jihad. Your posts get more and more comical as time goes on and you continue to paint yourself into the small corner of YNet Talkbackers who believe, for all intensive purposes, that the world is flat and 2+2=5 because you reject facts and logic. Ahmed, give it up already...
40. Joe, I refuse to apologize for being a gay Catholic Jew
Yaakov Sullivan ,   NYC   (01.30.08)
Joe, I am very disappointed at your arrogance. In fact I was under impression you are an intelligent man, but I take my words back. If you are knowlegable about JUDAISM you might remembrt the story of Pope Joulius the Fifth. Even at the cross he remained a faithful Jew. This is the reason I 've decided to be a Jew in his memory. I don't HAVE to be a Jew; I DECIDED to be one. I even converted by Rabbi Lerner into Humanistic form of Judaism. Now you call me Ahmed... I must admit, my husband Hassan and I decided to raise our adopted boys as Humanistic Jews and believe me it took me long time to convince my husband. He is devoted Muslim, but he agreed.Being an actor it is very difficult to make sure they eat kosher and keep Sunday holy. Another thing. Sorry for some misTeKs, i an dislectic, so I am no perfect... I still tinK Israel doesn't have a right to exist and created by criminals Peres and Ben Gurion the terrorist. I admire Naturei Karta for their dedication to the Palestinian people. Hope we can peacefully dismantle Zionist state and replace it with Palestine.
41. Read and deside ... who are the real fascists .
http://www.deathmasters.com/ http://thewebfairy.com/nerdcities/Palestine/war-criminals.htm
42. #40: learn something about the Jewish People
tom ,   USA   (01.30.08)
You need a little history/cultural lesson. The Jews are a nation indigenous to Israel. Israel is our national homeland, the nation-state of the Jewish People. You can't self-identify as a Jew (without even any Jewish blood!) and then claim that the Jewish homeland has no right to exist. Also, Neturei Karta are crazy fundamentalists...how a true "secular humanist" can admire them, I have no idea. Support Israel, the secular nation-state of the Jewish People.
43. Ivri # 21
charles ,   petach tikva   (01.30.08)
I'm at all not a Dutch person , but know this country . There were many collaborators in Holland during WWII , yes . But they have also received more than 4700 awards of Righteous amongst the Nations from Yad Vashem . After the six days war , i was more than once in this country , and saw very much posters in shops : Buy Israeli products . So if you recall history , do it with objecticity . This # 3 is only representative of a brainwashed Holland , a part of it's population .
44. Blaming the victims
Fredrik Hawkings ,   London   (01.30.08)
With every right wing cliche' in the Book the author is trying to put the blame on the victims, certainly the Nazis never blamed the Jews for their own demise?
45. Good Q. A: You are?
Benjamin ,   Jerusalem,Israel   (01.30.08)
It was the police that killed 12 Israelis, yes 12 Israelis, shoot them to death. Do you hate Israelis or is it just an attempt to defend the killers of innocent Israelis? So they were Israeli-Arabs, maybe that is your point? 'They had it coming to them' and all that Nazi stuff. As for "screaming Jews", well some Jews still care, not you, but some Jews do. They care a bout Israel and they care about what is happening to it especially when people like you triy to defend murder and mayhem for the single reason that the victims were Jews....sorry...Arabs.
46. #35, do a search on "moon made of cheese"
Danny   (01.30.08)
Find some interesting "documents" there too. The Mufti actively cooperated with the Nazis and stayed on their side long, long after it became clear they were losing, so unlike Sadat or Stern who simply wanted to cut a deal with the winners on the basis of "my enemy's enemy is my friend", the Mufti was Nazi out of sympathy with the Nazi ideology. There is a difference.
47. Yacub sullivan
charles ,   petach tikva   (01.30.08)
Let me tell you a story . A Jew came to live in a very Christian neigborhoud . The first Friday he was barbecueing , the smell of his steaks coming in the whole neighborhood . They were not pleased and asked him to stop eating meat on friday , and to convert to chriastinity . He accepted , was baptised . The next Friday , again steaks . What said his neighbour ? again steaks Friday ? No problem said this Jew , and to the steaks : Steaks , from today you are called fish . Only to tell you that yacub stays jacub , you can write unther another name , adopt Humanistic Judaism , but for all true Jews , you are always yacub . This story is also directed to ephraim
48. sullivan in NYC ynet censored my post to you but the essence
jack bauer   (01.30.08)
was basically this. You are not a jew You are not a christian You are a homosexual and have an arab "partner", and you are raising "boys"? Jews and Christians both follow the laws in the bible, and both consider sodomy and homosexual behavior to be an ABOMINATION thus you cannot be true to either creed. So you profess to be a catholic? why does this not surprise me? You have no right of return, and you did not convert to judaism. You are a fake and an apostate I hope you dont damage the boys you and you "partner" are raising too badly I know that I would be ashamed if I had two daddies. Especially in school growing up. And one daddy is an arab moslem? hahaha, moslems hang gays! And the other is a fake jew catholic basically any child with a situation like that is bound to be a "freak" And you and your gay lifestyle will be responsible for that.....poor kids
49. #43 charles.....thanks
jack bauer   (01.30.08)
50. Jazak u Baruch
Nahum ,   Peru   (01.30.08)
Good article, says what many ignore. And the worst jew haters (now pronounced as anti-zionists) are sometimes ourselves, the jews, like yaakov, if that's his name and not a plain arab trying to pass as a jew.
51. #36 Joe in L.A. (OT to orig. article)
Adina ,   USA   (01.30.08)
So, Karaite Jews are NOT Jews?! They keep kosher (and all other laws) according to Scripture only. Just because a lot of Jewish scholars throughout the ages have added their own interpretations to the perfect words of HaShem does not make their "rulings" binding. If Rabbinic Jews want to follow them, so be it. But I find it offensive to say that those who practice a Scriptural faith are to be disregarded. BTW, I am not a Karaite, as there are some points on which I disagree with them. But I respect and admire their desire to follow HaShem as He established for His Holy people. And, anyway, since when does any person keep the whole law with perfect practice AND attitude?! Perhaps we should all be more concerned with doing what is right and good, and worry less about defining others based on the outward things that we see. Finally, we need to remember that there are different definitions going on that often compete. A Jew is either someone from the tribe of Judah, the southern kingdom of Judah, Bnei Yisrael offspring, or a practitioner of Judaism (in any of its various forms), whether by family tradition or personal choice. In fact, Hitler and his gang did not care what religion someone practiced; he only cared about whether they had Jewish blood. So, to say that Israel should not be for "non-Judaism-practitioners" is to say that they are not worthy of protection from modern-day Hitler-types.
52. Jack Bauer
53. Jack Bauer
charles ,   petach tikva   (01.30.08)
That this yacub is gay is no problem for me , you know my views regarding being gay . This yacub does'nt follow the bible , even he claims to be a Humanistic Jew , so for him those biblical law have no value . Regarding the children , can't they be loved by gay parents ? Children at school will always find a reason to laugh with other children . So not so much a problem . Sad to say , those children will be raised as hatefull boys , as their father/mother is . You see Jack ,still my objectivity . Probably you will not say : Charles ...thanks ; for this tb
54. Abou sous
charles ,   petach tikva   (01.30.08)
What did the stern gang represent ? a gang as you say ! . El husseini was the mufti of Jerusalem . Not only did he visit hitler , made the nazi salute with him , but was chief propagandist for the nazis . Thanks to this propaganda , thousands of muslims from occupied Europe , joined the nazi armies operating in East Europe and maybe elsewhere .Comparing the Stern gang to husseini is the same as comparing a fly [ stern ] to an elephant [ your beloved leader ]
55. Thank you
Raphael ,   Canada   (01.30.08)
Well put.
56. Yaakov Sullivan is a riot!
Jake   (01.30.08)
Way more funny on this site than on the Haaretz forums. He tends to come out more here, whereas on the Haaretz one he's too testy, being in the closet and all.
57. #41, the unnamed: "Palestine", sorry, what's that?
Jake   (01.30.08)
Sorry never heard of it. Oops. Sorry. Don't know what you're talking about.
58. Exactly!
Ypip ,   Canada   (02.02.08)
"One does not need to be a genius to predict that similarly to numerous historical precedents, Arab leaders are again leading their people to a dead end." Just spinning them around and around in a they're cages; and not getting anywhere.
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