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Winograd: Political, military leadership failed during war
Aviram Zino and Roni Sofer
Published: 30.01.08, 18:18
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27 Talkbacks for this article
1. DO I REALLY HAVE TO SAY IT?
MAHMOOD ,   LONDON-UK   (01.30.08)
HAVA NAGILA HAVA TATA TAT AAA TATA TA TAAA, OMG I HATE MYSELF!
2. Olmert's reply
Ron ,   Tel Aviv   (01.30.08)
I, Olmerter, could had jump on my jet and left for Australia but I stayed to defend this stinking country. Next time I will do better. Remember that your life depends on me, Olmerter.
3. an electorate that chooses olmert and peretz
aaron ,   ra'anana   (01.30.08)
deserves the bad government which follows
4. i'd LOVE to see self-criticism done within hezbullah
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (01.30.08)
it'll never happen since anyone in lebanon who criticizes hizbullah is called a traitor/threatened by hezbullah, it is clear that the group is too afraid of any public debate, or even discussion, of them and their miscalculated adventure. they have a lot to hide, which is evident by the fact their leadership is in hiding as we speak. cowards with weapons is all they are.
5. What is new????
john ,   bristow   (01.30.08)
Nothing new in this report after such a long time of expert assesment. My sixth grader son knows that Israel has failed both politically and militarly. The only solution is peace making and bridge building not useless IDF arrogance????
6. it took 2 years to figure that out?
HEZBOLLAH   (01.30.08)
i dont no how many times ive said hezbollah won, but it seems the only way isreal and their citizens would realise their defeat is by this Winograd report. every year Isreal are revealing more and more to the public about the failures. the IDF finally get a glimpse of themselves in the mirror. For once please stop trying to put violence ahead of peace, we really need it in our reagion for the first time in 60 years.
7. here's a really long one.
oferdesade ,   israel   (01.30.08)
why are all so interested in crusifications? not that this one isn't justified... because they simply absolve all the rest of us. and winograd is an example. it deals with nothing, says nothing and (most importantly) leads to nothing. Lets faccee it - we're bankrupt on all fronts. we're in a constant materialistic race of egoism that blindens us to the tribulations of others. we're so full of self pity that we blame everyone but ourselves for things that sometimes even harbor no blame. our left is so blind to reality, so scared of losing a fight even if it's necessary that they have become irellevant; our right is so detached from reality that theywillingly put their own children (and all the rest of us) in a firing line that they in their messianic detachment orten create themselves. the state has sold itself to landsharks, its conscience to financially cynical media corporations. the army is subordinated to defense contracts, political machinations, egotrips - anything but defense (notwithstanding the present COS who i personaly know to be an honorable man... indeed they all are ... and out leadership is so corrupt that the honest ones are immediately suspect. as for leganon - that's what you get when you walk into a bank where you are so overdrawn - a slap in the face. so can a report like winograd actually adress a basic problem or is it destined to become just another testament to our folly. another news-program, shomer masach, which never really solves anything, just pretends to so you'll continue to watch and be no more than another head sold by the network to the advertiser?
8. Report
Johm ,   US   (01.30.08)
Winograd says Olmert, Livni meant well but bungled and did a bad job and lost a huge opportunity and did not protect the north. They must go. This is not a whitewash. These are very harsh conclusions presented in a very civil quietly worded manner but scathing. I The conclusion : the government failed very badly in it aim, goals, execution, decision and end results.Same for the then head of IDF.
9. Surprised? No. Disgusted? Yes!
Yossi ,   Levittown, PA, USA   (01.30.08)
If you liked the Warren Commission Report, you'll love this one to death. No wonder the saying: "Committees take minutes and waste hours." Keep frowning, O-. You lost us two POWs in the north, one in the south -- all of whom we'll never see again in all likelihood. And you are responsible for the death of our beloved Michael Levin, z"l. Ron in Tel Aviv is the other real hero here. He did his duty, like we did it in Viet Nam, despite such overwhelmingly incompetent leadership. Judge, take your pills and go back to bed; you've just wasted two years of everyone's life for no good outcomes.
10. for the record, "failed" does not mean "lost"
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (01.30.08)
as far as the actual fighting went, israel kicked hizbullah all across south lebanon. even they can't deny that.
11. Winograd
geroge   (01.30.08)
What is a report without personal recommendations? This is ridculous. Winograd says there was hesitancy, fear and lack of a plan--that is olmert's MO, he's a coward of the first order, he will repeat this behaviour. Get ready to lose all the next wars. Olmert, Livni, Peretz are all devoid of simple logic and guts. Winograd is almost a waste of time. They say the last operation was almost necessary though it didn't work. The lebanese resolution is worthless and has no teeth.Losing 33 soldiers was needless.Either the operation was necessary or not necessary. What is almost necessary? Olmert didn't followup, what else is new! Olmert handpicked the committee so what do you expect. They gave him an out.Olmert said Israel is tired of winning, so under him, they will be losing.
12. Olmert like Arab Leaders
Alex ,   Bahrain   (01.30.08)
Olmert Like Arab presidents, once they rule a country they will never give up the presidency until they die. Fortunately Israel have democracy and election, otherwise Olmert will stay ruling this country until he die, whatever failure happened during his ruling era
13. Meaning well doesnt cut it..They gots to go
Al   (01.30.08)
Either you get rid of this gov't or the Arabs will surely get rid of you. Its as simple as that! All the rest is BS!
14. It's better this way
Jake   (01.30.08)
Let Israel do the self-criticism and make the necessary corrections and act accordingly. Nasrallazballa can bluster all he wants about his "divine victory" and rest on his laurels for now. He will always be a barbarian hiding underground and behind civilians, never a soldier.
15. Olmert & Peretz vindicated because
Alik ,   Holon, Israel   (01.30.08)
they were not acted in the interests of Hizbullah. The reservists should say "we are sorry" and shut up. Go Kadima!
16. Winograd - a fair report
Sheila ,   Jerusalem Israel   (01.30.08)
The Winograd Commission has presented a fair and balanced report based on facts which we cannot possibly have access to. I believe that many, many people who abused their power by berating the PM should now apologise as publicly as they derided him.
17. Summary of winnograd report
yoni ,   Jerusalem IL FOREVER   (01.30.08)
-The analysis is out- Report: Israel made terrible mistakes. we lost the war. we have horrible leadership. Olmert is not the only one to blame... Leftist Kadima: Crowd goes wild!! yay ! everyone must appologize now! Olmert: we won we won.. or at least I did who cares about the rest of the country
18. it means
kiki ,   jerusalem   (01.30.08)
the politicaldepend on military to support their polices /and the melitary depends on the political to win the battel . and the people depends on both to be secure /and all of are failed /hizballa depends only for the military and the people as the policesfailed for evrything / but sure nasralla was not know that the people will pay the most price so he aske the forgivness as he know about the weapons but not about the israili leaders without any wisdom
19. yada, yada, ho hum
eliezer ,   jewrusalem   (01.30.08)
well what do you know? Olmert can easily brush this off. The IDF will 'study' it meaning they can escape from it. What did we learn from this, we learn that if you want to escape from responsibility you appoint an committee to investigate. or in the words of the world: "a camel is a horse designed by a committee."
20. What!?!?
Yehuda ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (01.30.08)
What a stupid report! They have 2 years to work on it and they just don't get it! The army did what it was told. Who told them what to do? Olmert and his nutty staff. Who cares if Olmert did what he thought was in the interest of the State of Israel. Let me explain: If someone kills someone and tells the court "I thought it was the best thing for him" what do you think the court would say? (and i don't mean the high court of this country, cause that's another group of nut cases. I mean a normal law abiding court) They would put the guy behind bars, or at least into a mental home. It's so sad to see such a great country being run by such stupid people.
21. our "great leader" makes no mistakes?
yahn goodey   (01.30.08)
he can't do his own job but at the same time he can't keep out of the way while he interfere's with the idf doing its job ? how much more treachery can israel endure from this man and his family?why do we let this man destroy us?
22. To all the Kadima spin TB's out there
Al   (01.30.08)
Give it up..Your English is poor and as a result you are obvious. Olmert...You are toast!
23. #6, Your time will come
Jake   (01.30.08)
While Israel self-examines and corrects, Hizbullah basks in arrogance and gloats. How many "divine victories" do you believe you have left, hiding behind civilians, kidnapping, rocketing civilians, while your leader hides in a hole at home while strutting in the sun in Damascus. The cat's 9 lives are running out. ;-)
24. Commission by Olmert
Steve Tate ,   Diwaniyah   (01.31.08)
Sounds like this commission was bought and paid for by the PM - blame the military, and soft-pedal Olmert's part. Anybody got a wipe for the brown noses?
25. ended without victory, but the damage was victory
observer   (01.31.08)
150 IDF deaths and displaced one million northerners spoke for solidarity between the the IDF and home front, only both paid the damage!
26. #23
HEZBOLLAH   (01.31.08)
yes thats one of the reasons why i respect the isrealis and jews, they self analyse and repair themselves, always looking for improvement. and only some arab leaders were like that. Jews are a smart race, and we know that. And, btw, how much evidence does isreal have for hezbollah hiding behind civilians, apart from the odd 1 or 2? isreal hid behind civilians and put there lives at stake in the north, when they placed their ,military bases, artillery, factories (that arab isrealis arent even allowed to work in) in THE MIDDLE of the civilian population. thats a war crime, and the whole world was blinded by isreali cencorship. And obviously nasrallah is going to hide, him being after all isreals top wanted, with forces like Mossad after him. And, also him being the most important and influencial man in lebanon. He stopped terror. If you recently read the news, hezbollah stopped people who were attacked by the army from some1s order to distablize lebanon. These people were gonna go into the city and kill the people who killed them, but hezbollah stopped them. and there are many more examples. and we dont intend to lose our 9 lives. isreal already lost 2. we want peace, for once. i cant say the same for others (our neighbours) for example..
27. 4. is ignorant
The Ominscient ,   Arabia   (02.05.09)
Ya your right. Hezbollah does not encourage introspection. This is clearly noticeable in interviews like these where he praises the Winograd report: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua1GWERNngM&feature=channel_page Also the fact that there is a decision making Shura Council where leaders and decisions are democratically chosen strongly proves your point. I suggest that before you make such statements, you read first.
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